2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

[Admin]

Fire Sullivan...

[KG]

Fire Sullivan...

Great start to the new thread!

Let's get a top 6 wing!

[dark_forces]

Who are realistic top 6 wing targets (given what we've seen from Dubas so far)?
For my list, I used 2 criteria: we get sweeteners (salary retention or picks) to take on the player or more of a hockey trade.
- Connor Garland (rumors have had the Canucks desperate to rid themselves of his salary)
- Patrik Laine (wants out and is expensive)
- Frank Vatrano (he's 30 and they were shopping him at one point)
- Andrei Kuzmenko (a reasonable hockey trade could be made and he could slot with Malkin)
- Nicholas Robertson (this is tough to gauge, but who knows him better than Dubas?)

[KG]

Who are realistic top 6 wing targets (given what we've seen from Dubas so far)?
For my list, I used 2 criteria: we get sweeteners (salary retention or picks) to take on the player or more of a hockey trade.
- Connor Garland (rumors have had the Canucks desperate to rid themselves of his salary)
- Patrik Laine (wants out and is expensive)
- Frank Vatrano (he's 30 and they were shopping him at one point)
- Andrei Kuzmenko (a reasonable hockey trade could be made and he could slot with Malkin)
- Nicholas Robertson (this is tough to gauge, but who knows him better than Dubas?)

I think KD can go a few ways to get a top 6 forward:

1. He can go with Hayes trade route where he takes a contract on for cheap and gets an asset back in return. Kane fits that mold.

2. Get a wing that wouldn't cost much but could still help the team now. Kuzmenko, Robertson type of trades.

4. Hockey trade. Money in money out. Laine type.

3. Go big game hunting and trading some of the assets he accumulated for a younger scoring forward like Zegras.

If I had to guess I would think options 1 and 2 are more likely than what we will see.

[pens_CT]

Who are realistic top 6 wing targets (given what we've seen from Dubas so far)?
For my list, I used 2 criteria: we get sweeteners (salary retention or picks) to take on the player or more of a hockey trade.
- Connor Garland (rumors have had the Canucks desperate to rid themselves of his salary)
- Patrik Laine (wants out and is expensive)
- Frank Vatrano (he's 30 and they were shopping him at one point)
- Andrei Kuzmenko (a reasonable hockey trade could be made and he could slot with Malkin)
- Nicholas Robertson (this is tough to gauge, but who knows him better than Dubas?)

I think KD can go a few ways to get a top 6 forward:

1. He can go with Hayes trade route where he takes a contract on for cheap and gets an asset back in return. Kane fits that mold.

2. Get a wing that wouldn't cost much but could still help the team now. Kuzmenko, Robertson type of trades.

4. Hockey trade. Money in money out. Laine type.

3. Go big game hunting and trading some of the assets he accumulated for a younger scoring forward like Zegras.

If I had to guess I would think options 1 and 2 are more likely than what we will see.

I think he goes with option 5, stand pat and see if one of more of the prospects makes a push to make the team.

[FLPensFan]

Who are realistic top 6 wing targets (given what we've seen from Dubas so far)?
For my list, I used 2 criteria: we get sweeteners (salary retention or picks) to take on the player or more of a hockey trade.
- Connor Garland (rumors have had the Canucks desperate to rid themselves of his salary)
- Patrik Laine (wants out and is expensive)
- Frank Vatrano (he's 30 and they were shopping him at one point)
- Andrei Kuzmenko (a reasonable hockey trade could be made and he could slot with Malkin)
- Nicholas Robertson (this is tough to gauge, but who knows him better than Dubas?)

--Garland - I don't think he's on the block anymore. He was when the team was cap strapped (they still are to some degree), but moving Mikheyev this summer seemed to be their cap dump move. Garland, meanwhile, had his best season in the NHL last year and the analytics crowd raved about him being the best 3rd line forward in the league.

--Laine - The problem here is his salary. Even if CBJ retained 50% (which I've heard they don't want to retain much if at all), we'd still need to ship out a player off the roster to make the cap work. The only thing that possibly works is trading Rakell for Laine, but then 1) CBJ still has to retain a little bit, 2) Laine in and Rakell out doesn't really solve adding another top 6 piece.

--Vatrano - Vatrano had a career year last year, 37 goals and 60 points. He would not be cheap to acquire. I think Anaheim would have moved him last year if they got a great deal, but having another year left probably moved some teams away. If Vatrano starts off the season playing like he did last year, he's going to be a big rental target at the trade deadline.

--Kuzmenko - Too much risk for the cost, IMO. 5.5M for a guy who has been very streaky. He's more of a shooter than anything else.


I think Dubas is done. I think Tarasenko was the last big swing he was willing to consider. If there is another move, my money would be on Robertson, or, if the Wahlstrom rumors are true, potentially trading for Wahlstrom if the Isles don't like his potential arbitration award. I'd also consider signing Zadina or Foudy to a league minimum deal, work with them at camp, let them start in the AHL, and see if either of them can regain some of the form that made them first round picks.

[KG]

Cap Friendly is going bye bye today. Puck Pedia put out today a Puck GM component for anyone that's interested. Good to see they are trying to fill the void created by the Caps!

[FLPensFan]

Cap Friendly is going bye bye today. Puck Pedia put out today a Puck GM component for anyone that's interested. Good to see they are trying to fill the void created by the Caps!

Happy to say they are catching up to CapFriendly much quicker than I anticipated. They've already cut down SOME of the "crap" that they had on their team pages. I'd still like to see the team pages have the cap summary at the top, not buried under news and transactions, but, it is getting there for sure.

[Sams_Dog]

Who are realistic top 6 wing targets (given what we've seen from Dubas so far)?
For my list, I used 2 criteria: we get sweeteners (salary retention or picks) to take on the player or more of a hockey trade.
- Connor Garland (rumors have had the Canucks desperate to rid themselves of his salary)
- Patrik Laine (wants out and is expensive)
- Frank Vatrano (he's 30 and they were shopping him at one point)
- Andrei Kuzmenko (a reasonable hockey trade could be made and he could slot with Malkin)
- Nicholas Robertson (this is tough to gauge, but who knows him better than Dubas?)

I think KD can go a few ways to get a top 6 forward:

1. He can go with Hayes trade route where he takes a contract on for cheap and gets an asset back in return. Kane fits that mold.

2. Get a wing that wouldn't cost much but could still help the team now. Kuzmenko, Robertson type of trades.

4. Hockey trade. Money in money out. Laine type.

3. Go big game hunting and trading some of the assets he accumulated for a younger scoring forward like Zegras.

If I had to guess I would think options 1 and 2 are more likely than what we will see.

I think trading for Evander Kane would be a mistake. He's been drama wherever he's played. Less so in Edmonton but there he got injured so there's that worry. I just don't want to see the team take on a problem case who becomes a distraction and PIA in the room. Not worth it.

[largegarlic]

Now that the dust has settled a bit on free agency, it seems pretty clear to me that Dubas has shifted to rebuild mode. Last summer, he made the big roll of the dice by getting Karlsson and to a lesser extent Smith and Graves to see if the team could get one last shot at a Cup run. It didn't work, so now he's not totally blowing things up, but he's taking on bad contracts for picks and only signing cheap reclamation projects on short contracts. If those reclamation projects rebound to something closer to their peak form, and the core guys keep up a high level of play, maybe the team makes the playoffs, but Dubas isn't into selling the farm to make a playoff push.

[Cow_Master66]

I think the team is pretty much set. They think they can win with this roster and likely feel if they can get the PP up to average, they can get into the playoffs. They have the best hockey coach in the world as well.

[Cow_Master66]

Now that the dust has settled a bit on free agency, it seems pretty clear to me that Dubas has shifted to rebuild mode. Last summer, he made the big roll of the dice by getting Karlsson and to a lesser extent Smith and Graves to see if the team could get one last shot at a Cup run. It didn't work, so now he's not totally blowing things up, but he's taking on bad contracts for picks and only signing cheap reclamation projects on short contracts. If those reclamation projects rebound to something closer to their peak form, and the core guys keep up a high level of play, maybe the team makes the playoffs, but Dubas isn't into selling the farm to make a playoff push.

There's no farm to sell.

[KG]

Now that the dust has settled a bit on free agency, it seems pretty clear to me that Dubas has shifted to rebuild mode. Last summer, he made the big roll of the dice by getting Karlsson and to a lesser extent Smith and Graves to see if the team could get one last shot at a Cup run. It didn't work, so now he's not totally blowing things up, but he's taking on bad contracts for picks and only signing cheap reclamation projects on short contracts. If those reclamation projects rebound to something closer to their peak form, and the core guys keep up a high level of play, maybe the team makes the playoffs, but Dubas isn't into selling the farm to make a playoff push.

Agreed. Karlsson came here to try to win, he is still looking for a Cup. Wonder if he will look to try to get moved sometime this season. Pens would have to retain I'm sure, but we should be able to get some decent pieces for him if/when EK get's moved.

[lemieuxReturns]

Now that the dust has settled a bit on free agency, it seems pretty clear to me that Dubas has shifted to rebuild mode. Last summer, he made the big roll of the dice by getting Karlsson and to a lesser extent Smith and Graves to see if the team could get one last shot at a Cup run. It didn't work, so now he's not totally blowing things up, but he's taking on bad contracts for picks and only signing cheap reclamation projects on short contracts. If those reclamation projects rebound to something closer to their peak form, and the core guys keep up a high level of play, maybe the team makes the playoffs, but Dubas isn't into selling the farm to make a playoff push.

Agreed. Karlsson came here to try to win, he is still looking for a Cup. Wonder if he will look to try to get moved sometime this season. Pens would have to retain I'm sure, but we should be able to get some decent pieces for him if/when EK get's moved.

Retaining 50% should net multiple 1sts in my opinion.

[pfim]

Fire Sullivan...

If you can't change the players, change the...system.

The level of underachievement last season is worrying. The talent, as old as it is, is good enough to get into the playoffs.

We can talk about all the players we could acquire, but the improvement needs to come from within. With as old as the roster is, that means changing the style of play.

[KG]

Savoie 9th overall pick a couple years ago. Former linemate of Yager. Sabres fans aren't pleased with GM Adams.

[DelPen]

Now that the dust has settled a bit on free agency, it seems pretty clear to me that Dubas has shifted to rebuild mode. Last summer, he made the big roll of the dice by getting Karlsson and to a lesser extent Smith and Graves to see if the team could get one last shot at a Cup run. It didn't work, so now he's not totally blowing things up, but he's taking on bad contracts for picks and only signing cheap reclamation projects on short contracts. If those reclamation projects rebound to something closer to their peak form, and the core guys keep up a high level of play, maybe the team makes the playoffs, but Dubas isn't into selling the farm to make a playoff push.

This feels more like a reload instead of a hard rebuild. It would had been much better to make moves like this last summer were we didn’t sign Graves and found a guy like Griz.

Aside from the scoring talent drop off of Jake to Bunting, this team is better than last year to start the season. But Bunting has been a good fit so far so there are other things he’s better to have on this team especially if he’s with Geno. The coaching has also been greatly improved because Rierden is garbage.

It’s not like the Rangers reload since they actually were going full rebuild and got lucky Panarin wanted to go there no matter what, but if I get Sid for another 5 years and he’s good with this approach I’m fine.

[DelPen]

Karlsson won’t get moved until he has one more additional season unless a team really wants him and give up a lot with no retention.

[DeHaven162]

Who are realistic top 6 wing targets (given what we've seen from Dubas so far)?
For my list, I used 2 criteria: we get sweeteners (salary retention or picks) to take on the player or more of a hockey trade.
- Connor Garland (rumors have had the Canucks desperate to rid themselves of his salary)
- Patrik Laine (wants out and is expensive)
- Frank Vatrano (he's 30 and they were shopping him at one point)
- Andrei Kuzmenko (a reasonable hockey trade could be made and he could slot with Malkin)
- Nicholas Robertson (this is tough to gauge, but who knows him better than Dubas?)

--Garland - I don't think he's on the block anymore. He was when the team was cap strapped (they still are to some degree), but moving Mikheyev this summer seemed to be their cap dump move. Garland, meanwhile, had his best season in the NHL last year and the analytics crowd raved about him being the best 3rd line forward in the league.

--Laine - The problem here is his salary. Even if CBJ retained 50% (which I've heard they don't want to retain much if at all), we'd still need to ship out a player off the roster to make the cap work. The only thing that possibly works is trading Rakell for Laine, but then 1) CBJ still has to retain a little bit, 2) Laine in and Rakell out doesn't really solve adding another top 6 piece.

--Vatrano - Vatrano had a career year last year, 37 goals and 60 points. He would not be cheap to acquire. I think Anaheim would have moved him last year if they got a great deal, but having another year left probably moved some teams away. If Vatrano starts off the season playing like he did last year, he's going to be a big rental target at the trade deadline.

--Kuzmenko - Too much risk for the cost, IMO. 5.5M for a guy who has been very streaky. He's more of a shooter than anything else.


I think Dubas is done. I think Tarasenko was the last big swing he was willing to consider. If there is another move, my money would be on Robertson, or, if the Wahlstrom rumors are true, potentially trading for Wahlstrom if the Isles don't like his potential arbitration award. I'd also consider signing Zadina or Foudy to a league minimum deal, work with them at camp, let them start in the AHL, and see if either of them can regain some of the form that made them first round picks.

My thought on any potential Laine deal would have to include Ryan Graves. That's 4.5 million that would be going the other way. The thought is CBJ likely won't be able to command too much in return due to the situation with Laine wanting out, and CBJ seemingly trying to accommodate. We'd still have Pettersson, Grzelcyk, Aho on the left side and Ludvig when healthy. And you don't have to move a Rakell so you're not creating a new hole at top 6 fwd.

Issues are does anyone want Graves, even CBJ, and Graves has a 12 team NTC, yikes.

But best case scenario would include Graves, Eller, + for Laine. Wishful thinking.

[FLPensFan]

The other thing I hate about Sullivan as coach is the players we continually pass over or don't even look at.

24 year old, 6'3' center Ryan McLeod was traded to Buffalo with another prospect for Buffalo prospect Matthew Savoie.

Now, Savoie is a good prospect. 8th overall selection for Buffalo (and the other piece of the Yager-Firkus line in Moose Jaw).

It just seems like if a forward player has an ounce of physical play to his game, they are immediately thrown in the rejection pile.

[Ericf]

The other thing I hate about Sullivan as coach is the players we continually pass over or don't even look at.

24 year old, 6'3' center Ryan McLeod was traded to Buffalo with another prospect for Buffalo prospect Matthew Savoie.

Now, Savoie is a good prospect. 8th overall selection for Buffalo (and the other piece of the Yager-Firkus line in Moose Jaw).

It just seems like if a forward player has an ounce of physical play to his game, they are immediately thrown in the rejection pile.

It was a stupid trade by Buffalo lol. The other issue with Sullivan is that we could have our own young 3C on our team in Ponomarev but we wouldn’t know that because Sullivan will play Hayes over him regardless of how they look in training camp.

[KG]

The other thing I hate about Sullivan as coach is the players we continually pass over or don't even look at.

24 year old, 6'3' center Ryan McLeod was traded to Buffalo with another prospect for Buffalo prospect Matthew Savoie.

Now, Savoie is a good prospect. 8th overall selection for Buffalo (and the other piece of the Yager-Firkus line in Moose Jaw).

It just seems like if a forward player has an ounce of physical play to his game, they are immediately thrown in the rejection pile.

It was a stupid trade by Buffalo lol. The other issue with Sullivan is that we could have our own young 3C on our team in Ponomarev but we wouldn’t know that because Sullivan will play Hayes over him regardless of how they look in training camp.

Bad trade by Buffalo. We also don't have a Savoie to trade. Guess ours would be Yager and we certainly aren't trading him for McLeod. We don't have the assets to play in the deep pool. We had our time. Time to restock the system.

[BigMcK]

Fire Sullivan...

Would it be too late for today? Now? Yesterday???