Let's talk about music

Post by **Digitalgypsy66** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:33 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBnwtGovwTw[/youtube]

Nice.

Greatly enjoying Mark Knopfler's new album, Tracker. Really solid songwriting, as always, with a Celtic/Irish/Folk/singer-songwriter vibe. He also has one of my favorite guitar sounds or tones.

I usually listen to an album without much background information, but I found a 22 minute video on his YouTube channel about the songwriting process for most of the albums songs, track by track. Very interesting, and a very literate and well read man - he mentions 2-3 authors that influenced his songwriting for this album. Definitely worth checking it out, and the full album of course.

Post by **tifosi77** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:46 pm

Steve Thompson: 'When Lars Asked Me, What Happened to the Bass in '... Justice', I Wanted to Cold Cock Him'

When you mixed the tracks for Metallica's "...And Justice For All" album in 1988, was that a totally different experience than working on the "Appetite For Destruction" record?

Well, what I wanted to do and what Lars wanted to do was totally different, which kind of upset me a little bit. I loved Metallica and was very familiar with them. I said, "These guys are cool." We got the call to do it and went up to Bearsville Studios in upstate New York and the guys were on the Monsters of Rock Tour at the time. So what they would do is fly in by helicopter, a day here and a day there just to go through things.

Did the band know what kind of album they wanted to make and what they wanted it to sound like?

Lars knew exactly the sound and the parameters of everything he wanted on his drums. So he would actually bring his photos of a Klark Teknik's EQ [parametric equalizer] setup because he had a certain way he wanted the drums to sound. I said, "Michael [Barbiero], why don't you work with Lars and get the drum sound he's looking for? Call me when he's happy."

What did you think when you finally heard them?

They called me in and I listened to them and I said to myself, "These sound like a-s. Terrible sounding." I chased everybody out of the room and redesigned the drum sound and brought the guitars up. Jason [Newsted] killed it on bass. Perfect marriage with Hetfield's guitars.

Tell me about some of the gear you used with Metallica?

We mixed the album at Bearsville Studios in New York. The console was an SSL G Series with Ultimation. We used Neve EQs; Pultec EQP and MEQs; AMS delays and reverbs; and we used Lexicon on drums. All the Pultec LA2A and LA3As. Mixdown was definitely 48-tracks so there were two Studer multi-track machines and quite possibly they were A800 machines. We used a Studer A80 1" for mixdown at 30ips. When Lars recorded the drums, he used a Clark Tekniks EQ parametric.

Was James happy with what you were doing?

I'm putting all the other stuff up and everything like this and Hetfield gives a thumbs up. Lars comes walking in a couple minutes later and listens to about a minute of it and goes, "Turn that off" and I said, "What's the problem?" He said, "What happened to my drum sound?" I said, "You were serious?" or something like that.

Lars was not happy?

We had to get the drum sound up the way he had it. I wasn't a fan of it. So now he goes, "See the bass guitar?" and I said, "Yeah, great part, man. He killed it." He said, "I want you to bring down the bass where you can barely, audibly hear it in the mix." I said, "You're kidding. Right?"

He wasn't kidding?

He said, "No. Bring it down." I bring it down to that level and he says, "Now drop it down another 5 db." I turned around and looked at Hetfield and said, "He's serious?" It just blew me away.

What did you do?

I called my manager that night and I think I talked to Cliff Burnstein and Peter Mensch [Metallica's managers] and said, "I love these guys. I think they're amazing and they've created a genre of their own but I do not agree with the direction Lars is pulling me in. My name's gonna go on it so why don't you find somebody else?" My manager wouldn't have anything to do with that or Burnstein or Mensch.

But you were ready to walk away from mixing Metallica?

They talked me into being there and my only regret is that we didn't have enough time to at least mix it the way we heard it. I wanted to take "Master of Puppets" and blow that away. That was my sonic direction for "... And Justice For All." It was all there but I think they were looking for more garagey-type sound without bass. And the bass was great; it was perfect. I remember when Metallica got elected to the Hall of Fame, they flew us out and I'm sitting with Lars.

Did you talk to him?

He goes, "Hey, what happened to the bass in "... Justice?" He actually asked me that. I wanted to cold cock him right there. It was a shame because I'm the one getting the sh-t for the lack of bass.

tl;dr ----- When Lars told the engineer how he wanted the bass to sound on "Justice", the engineer thought he was joking. That's how bad it was.

Post by **skullman80** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:45 pm

Not surprising. Both James and Lars were total control freaks over the band back then. It was how they wanted things, it didn't matter what Kirk or Jason wanted at that point in time.

That being said I still love the sound of Justice. The guitar tone is perfect, Hetfields voice is at its snarly best. I don't miss the bass too much, but that is just me.

MRandall25 · Post by **MRandall25** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:50 pm

Aside from adding to the bottom end a little (which, let's face it, would still have been mostly drowned out by the guitar mixing), was there anything special missing by not having a lot of bass?

From what I've gathered (through my roommate trying to learn songs from Justice to play with me on his bass in college), it's mostly just a rehash of what the guitars are doing. Nothing Cliff-like, where the bass takes a life of its own.

Post by **skullman80** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:18 pm

Yeah Jason pretty much played note for note on what the guitars did on the bass. Now how much of that was them telling him to play that way... who knows. I'd wager to say it was that way cause that is how they(James and Lars) wanted it. Like I said James and Lars were control freaks back then, they've even admitted as such later on. Things weren't up for discussion. It's how they wanted things. Which is why this isn't surprising to me.

They also admitted they were really **** to Jason when he first started.. almost a hazing because they were still mourning cliff's death etc.

TL;DR -- James and Lars were dbags back then, and it was there way or the high way so none of this should be surprising.

Post by **Digitalgypsy66** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:31 pm

C'mon, guys. It's all about the bass.

Post by **columbia** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:57 pm

So Prince has produced an album by one Judith Hill....who apparently got her start on The Voice.

Weird.

Factorial · Post by **Factorial** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:37 pm

Being pressured to get One Direction tickets for Philly in Sept. 3 tickets for $363, and worse yet, I would have to go.

legame · Post by **legame** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:38 pm

GSdrums87 wrote:Okay, so I just discovered a new (to me) band out of Pottsville, PA (Yuengling and that's all that's there) called Crobots. They're gonna be touring with Anthrax here soon, and they are FREAKING AWESOME.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKc3ivWvdPg[/youtube]

I actually graduated from high school with Brandon, the lead singer. We're talking a class of 90 in Schuylkill County. I watched him play in a banquet hall for 7 people... and now he just got back from a European tour opening for Black Label Society. Unreal.

Post by **columbia** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:39 pm

Factorial wrote:Being pressured to get One Direction tickets for Philly in Sept. 3 tickets for $363, and worse yet, I would have to go.

Would you be able to smoke at the show?

Factorial · Post by **Factorial** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:49 pm

columbia wrote:
Factorial wrote:Being pressured to get One Direction tickets for Philly in Sept. 3 tickets for $363, and worse yet, I would have to go.
Would you be able to smoke at the show?

I highly doubt it. I'll be sure to bring the nicotine "lozengers".

Troy Loney · Post by **Troy Loney** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:38 am

Does it really make you a bad parent to show your disapproval in their taste?

Post by **Gaucho** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:49 am

It makes you a bad parent to allow them to develop bad taste to begin with.

FreeCandy44 · Post by **FreeCandy44** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:58 am

Van Halen and Kenny Wayne Sheppard July 28 at Starlake.

knives of ice · Post by **knives of ice** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:31 pm

Factorial wrote:Being pressured to get One Direction tickets for Philly in Sept. 3 tickets for $363, and worse yet, I would have to go.

trust me, WAIT to buy your tickets and buy them as close to the event as you can you'll pay way less than that on the secondary market. i got tickets for my niece last year and close to the show with brokers having a ton of the tickets the prices fall dramatically and this band isn't nearly as popular this year as last.

Post by **Digitalgypsy66** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:10 pm

Might be even cheaper with the one kid leaving the band...

So glad I don't have daughters...

Troy Loney · Post by **Troy Loney** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:30 am

Gaucho wrote:New Kendrick out now.

Listening to it for the first time. This is a really well timed album in the current social context...I think this could become a seminal album.

Post by **Gaucho** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:23 pm

Troy Loney wrote:
Gaucho wrote:New Kendrick out now.

Listening to it for the first time. This is a really well timed album in the current social context...I think this could become a seminal album.

I agree, it's fantastic. So is the new Laura Marling album.

Post by **tifosi77** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:56 pm

Apparently DLR is lobbying hard to get Michael Anthony back in Van Halen for the upcoming tour.

Post by **Admin** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:57 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Apparently DLR is lobbying hard to get Michael Anthony back in Van Halen for the upcoming tour.

What's the Cliff Notes on why Anthony is out?

Dickie Dunn · Post by **Dickie Dunn** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:12 pm

Admin wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:Apparently DLR is lobbying hard to get Michael Anthony back in Van Halen for the upcoming tour.
What's the Cliff Notes on why Anthony is out?

Eddie says he quit, Anthony says he was fired. Hagar left Van Halen and Michael Anthony continued to do side gigs with him, pissing Eddie off, which resulted in Eddie recording the bass tracks for the majority of Van Halen III., toured in support of the album but kind of disappeared after that. Anthony joined Van Halen on their reunion tour with Sammy Hagar, but at a reduced fee. Tour ended, Anthony hasn't talked to the brothers since, went on tour with Sammy Hagar, and then one day Eddie announces a reunion tour with DLR and that Wolfgang would be the bass player from then on.

I guess a Cliff Notes version of the Cliff Notes would be that Eddie Van Halen is an egotistical jagoff control freak.

Post by **columbia** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:44 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Apparently DLR is lobbying hard to get Michael Anthony back in Van Halen for the upcoming tour.

Well, he should.

Factorial · Post by **Factorial** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:25 pm

columbia wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:Apparently DLR is lobbying hard to get Michael Anthony back in Van Halen for the upcoming tour.

Well, he should.

Even from a VH hater, he should.

Factorial · Post by **Factorial** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Gaucho wrote:It makes you a bad parent to allow them to develop bad taste to begin with.

So say the childless Troy Loney and Gaucho.

I did my best. One of my daughters used to sing along with Eugene Chabourne. At some point you accept that they will have their own tastes and hope for the best.

Post by **Gaucho** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:22 pm

Factorial wrote:
Gaucho wrote:It makes you a bad parent to allow them to develop bad taste to begin with.
So say the childless Troy Loney and Gaucho.

I did my best. One of my daughters used to sing along with Eugene Chabourne. At some point you accept that they will have their own tastes and hope for the best.

Just kidding, of course.

Hey, how do you know I'm childless?

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