Canaan's thread of NPR chaos.

[mikey287]

Haha, I lost? If you think one person was hired to do Corsi work, you're nuts (which is what I was referring to...the "average fan's" use of Corsi and other things...people that use the term "possession player" every third sentence). These measures - when further developed - are a tool...like anything else...it's not like the teams that made these hires fired all our their scouts, as if underlying metrics won the NHL contract or something...

[slappybrown]

Haha, I lost? If you think one person was hired to do Corsi work, you're nuts (which is what I was referring to...the "average fan's" use of Corsi and other things...people that use the term "possession player" every third sentence). These measures - when further developed - are a tool...like anything else...it's not like the teams that made these hires fired all our their scouts, as if underlying metrics won the NHL contract or something...

I don't know what half of what you just wrote means.

The point is you constantly disparage their use, and the real reason is because it democratizes player analysis which annoys someone like you that has experience coaching ice hockey. I don't post about the "scouting craze." All of these tools -- scouting, analytics, background checks, whatever -- are part of a complete picture of player analysis.

[Jim]

Corsi is NOT a complete picture. It is quite biased towards specific aspects of the game.

[slappybrown]

Nope, and I'm not saying that. We're using it as shorthand for the use of analytics in general.

[shmenguin]

"advanced stats" are incomplete. hockey nerds tend to have too many personal biases. mush them together and things are ok.

[slappybrown]

"advanced stats" are incomplete. hockey nerds tend to have too many personal biases. mush them together and things are ok.

Imagine what personal biases scouts must have.

[mikey287]

Haha, I lost? If you think one person was hired to do Corsi work, you're nuts (which is what I was referring to...the "average fan's" use of Corsi and other things...people that use the term "possession player" every third sentence). These measures - when further developed - are a tool...like anything else...it's not like the teams that made these hires fired all our their scouts, as if underlying metrics won the NHL contract or something...

I don't know what half of what you just wrote means.

The point is you constantly disparage their use, and the real reason is because it democratizes player analysis which annoys someone like you that has experience coaching ice hockey. I don't post about the "scouting craze." All of these tools -- scouting, analytics, background checks, whatever -- are part of a complete picture of player analysis.

it's interesting, very interesting and, like I said, I hope it continues to improve...seems like we're right on the verge of some of actually interesting things coming forward in the next few years...

Meanwhile, back at reality. You (meaning, me, I guess) realize when looking at these things that there are a lot of things unaccounted for...so, rightfully, I'm waiting for a better product to be put forward before jumping in head first and swimming around in information that will soon be found to be - well - marginal. Plus/minus, save pct., these "advanced" metrics all went through the same thing. These things take time to refine and improve, the first couple versions of anything like this are rarely perfect. I'm sorry that that's such an offensive take...but I don't have ADD (not saying that you do either), a player/team can go on a hot streak or a cold streak and I don't label them the best or worst team/player of all-time...similarly, some shiny new numbers appear and I don't rush over to choke them down like a mathematical whore...

When something that better accounts for the variables of the game appears, I'll look forward to scoping that out as well...maybe it will be great, maybe it won't...

[mikey287]

"advanced stats" are incomplete. hockey nerds tend to have too many personal biases. mush them together and things are ok.

Imagine what personal biases scouts must have.

That's the idea. You're judging a player's talents. You should be passing off that bias in the form of valuable information. Not telling me that he's "not a possession player" because he doesn't start in the offensive zone more than 41% of the time...who cares? That doesn't tell me if I want to draft him or not...

At least this zone entry information that's out there now is a little more in tune with things that matter...like I said, it's not gonna be right right out of the box...give it time to develop a little before canonizing it...

[slappybrown]

Haha, I lost? If you think one person was hired to do Corsi work, you're nuts (which is what I was referring to...the "average fan's" use of Corsi and other things...people that use the term "possession player" every third sentence). These measures - when further developed - are a tool...like anything else...it's not like the teams that made these hires fired all our their scouts, as if underlying metrics won the NHL contract or something...

I don't know what half of what you just wrote means.

The point is you constantly disparage their use, and the real reason is because it democratizes player analysis which annoys someone like you that has experience coaching ice hockey. I don't post about the "scouting craze." All of these tools -- scouting, analytics, background checks, whatever -- are part of a complete picture of player analysis.

it's interesting, very interesting and, like I said, I hope it continues to improve...seems like we're right on the verge of some of actually interesting things coming forward in the next few years...

Meanwhile, back at reality. You (meaning, me, I guess) realize when looking at these things that there are a lot of things unaccounted for...so, rightfully, I'm waiting for a better product to be put forward before jumping in head first and swimming around in information that will soon be found to be - well - marginal. Plus/minus, save pct., these "advanced" metrics all went through the same thing. These things take time to refine and improve, the first couple versions of anything like this are rarely perfect. I'm sorry that that's such an offensive take...but I don't have ADD (not saying that you do either), a player/team can go on a hot streak or a cold streak and I don't label them the best or worst team/player of all-time...similarly, some shiny new numbers appear and I don't rush over to choke them down like a mathematical whore...

When something that better accounts for the variables of the game appears, I'll look forward to scoping that out as well...maybe it will be great, maybe it won't...

I'm not sure who these people are that say "player/team go on a hot or a cold streak and...label them the best or worst...of all time" but that's exactly contrary to the point of advanced stats. Its the quintessential problem with traditional scouting in fact, in that seeing snippets of someone live fails to give a true picture. So basically, that's a complete straw man.

As to the rest, you should learn more about advanced stats. Because I think you're missing out on a lot, and have a misunderstanding/ignorance of certain of the metrics.

[slappybrown]

"advanced stats" are incomplete. hockey nerds tend to have too many personal biases. mush them together and things are ok.

Imagine what personal biases scouts must have.

That's the idea. You're judging a player's talents. You should be passing off that bias in the form of valuable information. Not telling me that he's "not a possession player" because he doesn't start in the offensive zone more than 41% of the time...who cares? That doesn't tell me if I want to draft him or not...

At least this zone entry information that's out there now is a little more in tune with things that matter...like I said, it's not gonna be right right out of the box...give it time to develop a little before canonizing it...

Who's canonizing it? Who are you arguing with right now?

[mikey287]

Who is ignoring the point of the post to focus on one word that they did not like...?

[slappybrown]

Who is ignoring the point of the post to focus on one word that they did not like...?

I ignored the rest of your post precisely because it had no point. "Not a possession player because he doesn't start in the offensive zone more than 41% of the time" is unintelligible gibberish.

[mikey287]

I'm sorry, your honor, please strike from the record the word "canonizing" and the phrase describing some underlying metrics in a less-than-stellar light...

Any more word games, counselor?

[shmenguin]

i don't think someone can be a judge and a lawyer during the same trial

[slappybrown]

Lol

Mikey you and I are destined to do this forever

[mikey287]

i don't think someone can be a judge and a lawyer during the same trial

Probably not, I specialize in Maritime law, though, so it's a whole different system...

[mikey287]

Lol

Mikey you and I are destined to do this forever

Seems likely...same time next month?

[MRandall25]

You're a crook, Captain Hook.

[Jim]

But how do they play for me on NHL14?

[meow]

Haha. You lost.

[DropEmJayBird]

I can't wait until NHL 16 introduces BAP Corsi rating.

I can just see it now...

"Great job with the 2 goals tonight, but that Corsi rating is a one way ticket back to the minor leagues"

[mikey287]

Tip: Throw pucks near the net from anywhere regardless of the situation.

[MRandall25]

Apparently the Blues are having an outbreak of bacterial mumps in their locker room?

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Apparently the Blues are having an outbreak of ¡bacterial mumps! in their locker room?

[shafnutz05]

http://deadspin.com/thomas-vanek-paid-o ... 1653387189

Vanek is bad at gambling