Let's talk about music

[columbia]

How in God's name could you interpret it that way?

The reason I want to hear the best possible musician in a symphony is because it's known that the composer isn't around actually do it themselves.

[PensFanInDC]

A composer couldn't play a symphony himself

[columbia]

Hey, it was tif's idea, not mine

But, yes, I would prefer to see Bach leading a cello quartet, but that ain't happening.

[PensFanInDC]

Not with that attitude.

[columbia]

[CrossIcePass]

How is SRV not inducted already? First ballot?

I was wondering the same thing.

Those who don't like the Blues and aren't guitar players may not appreciate SRV. To everyone else, he was a legend.

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[Gaucho]

Ok, so I guess I don't like the Blues then.

[CrossIcePass]

Ok, so I guess I don't like the Blues then.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Stevie_Ray_Vaughan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems as though there are quite a few luminaries who disagree.

But hey, the world needs all kinds.

[Gaucho]

Yeah, I agree with Jack White that Son House is more interesting.

SRV was an excellent guitar player. I don't think that was ever up for debate.

[columbia]

The entire quote dovetails with my prior point:

Jack White -Jack, you said in a previous interview that it’s easy to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan and difficult to play like Son House. Could you clarify what you meant by that?

I guess what I meant was, the blues scale is one of the easiest things you can learn on the guitar. It’s the old cliché—“It’s easy to learn but takes a lifetime to master.” That’s where I was headed with that. I’m not impressed with somebody playing a blues scale at blinding speed, but I am impressed with Son House when he plays the “wrong” note. Somehow it’s more meaningful to me when I hear him miss a note and hit the neck of his guitar with his slide. I think the distinction you’re looking for is that Son House is not being superficial—he’s not just playing a scale. He means every last note and is projecting it. He’s not showing off his technique, he’s trying to create a real emotional moment.

[CrossIcePass]

The entire quote dovetails with my prior point:

Jack White -Jack, you said in a previous interview that it’s easy to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan and difficult to play like Son House. Could you clarify what you meant by that?

I guess what I meant was, the blues scale is one of the easiest things you can learn on the guitar. It’s the old cliché—“It’s easy to learn but takes a lifetime to master.” That’s where I was headed with that. I’m not impressed with somebody playing a blues scale at blinding speed, but I am impressed with Son House when he plays the “wrong” note. Somehow it’s more meaningful to me when I hear him miss a note and hit the neck of his guitar with his slide. I think the distinction you’re looking for is that Son House is not being superficial—he’s not just playing a scale. He means every last note and is projecting it. He’s not showing off his technique, he’s trying to create a real emotional moment.

Probably the best example I can think of where the technique is horrible, but the "soul" is through the roof.
The mistakes, which are plentiful, seem to even make it better.

[youtube][/youtube]

[CrossIcePass]

The entire quote dovetails with my prior point:

Jack White -Jack, you said in a previous interview that it’s easy to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan and difficult to play like Son House. Could you clarify what you meant by that?

I guess what I meant was, the blues scale is one of the easiest things you can learn on the guitar. It’s the old cliché—“It’s easy to learn but takes a lifetime to master.” That’s where I was headed with that. I’m not impressed with somebody playing a blues scale at blinding speed, but I am impressed with Son House when he plays the “wrong” note. Somehow it’s more meaningful to me when I hear him miss a note and hit the neck of his guitar with his slide. I think the distinction you’re looking for is that Son House is not being superficial—he’s not just playing a scale. He means every last note and is projecting it. He’s not showing off his technique, he’s trying to create a real emotional moment.

Probably the best example I can think of where the technique is horrible, but the "soul" is through the roof.
The mistakes, which are plentiful, seem to even make it better.

[youtube][/youtube]

If we're going to quote artists, particularly those known for their guitar playing, you may want to read the final sentence of Eric Claptons comment "... And I had to leave just to preserve some kind of sanity or confidence in myself."

[Gaucho]

Clapton is an even bigger bore.

[tifosi77]

Hey, it was tif's idea, not mine

Wat?

If I go the symphony, then yes, I want to hear the best possible musicians (play someone else's art).

I'm not presenting the notion, I'm refuting it.

[tifosi77]

The entire quote dovetails with my prior point:

Jack White -Jack, you said in a previous interview that it’s easy to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan and difficult to play like Son House. Could you clarify what you meant by that?

I guess what I meant was, the blues scale is one of the easiest things you can learn on the guitar. It’s the old cliché—“It’s easy to learn but takes a lifetime to master.” That’s where I was headed with that. I’m not impressed with somebody playing a blues scale at blinding speed, but I am impressed with Son House when he plays the “wrong” note. Somehow it’s more meaningful to me when I hear him miss a note and hit the neck of his guitar with his slide. I think the distinction you’re looking for is that Son House is not being superficial—he’s not just playing a scale. He means every last note and is projecting it. He’s not showing off his technique, he’s trying to create a real emotional moment.

This head-up-you-butt approach to music annoys the unholy snot out of me. When people listen to a player with skill and only hear the technical chops and immediately assume that the player is devoid of 'feel', or lacking the ability to 'create a real emotional moment'. Most often this is propagated by people who don't what scale length their guitar is, or the difference what the guitar sounds like when tuning to A=440 vs A=444. That doesn't matter, because they 'feel'.

I assert that the reason they think this way is because they are incapable of functioning, musically, on that level and are intimidated and confused by it.

Are there players who only have chops and do genuinely lack musical sense? Of course. Yngwie Malmsteen immediately pops into mind. "I'll play Bach and Paganini as fast as I can! Whooo!" That's 99% of his playing. But I'll take guys like Steve Vai - who once fasted for nearly a week before recording a particular solo because the song was about what we sacrifice in the name of spirituality - over numpties like this House person (who's claim to fame is apparently being accidentally good) seven days a week.

Takes all kinds, of course. And you're welcome to the ones who stumble into greatness. I'll take the ones who do it on purpose.

[Gaucho]

Seems like a misunderstanding, as evidenced by your last sentence.

[tifosi77]

In completely unrelated music........

Went to Steve Winwood and Tom Petty last night, along with 16,000 other white people. Not my forte, but it was enjoyable nonetheless. Musical highlight was hearing Windood sing 'Gimme Some Lovin' live. That song, that voice, so good. Overall highlight was seeing just how much Tom Petty was enjoying being high.

[FreeCandy44]

Ive always wanted to see Petty live. Id enjoy seeing him and Fogerty play a tour together.

[Factorial]

The entire quote dovetails with my prior point:

Jack White -Jack, you said in a previous interview that it’s easy to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan and difficult to play like Son House. Could you clarify what you meant by that?

I guess what I meant was, the blues scale is one of the easiest things you can learn on the guitar. It’s the old cliché—“It’s easy to learn but takes a lifetime to master.” That’s where I was headed with that. I’m not impressed with somebody playing a blues scale at blinding speed, but I am impressed with Son House when he plays the “wrong” note. Somehow it’s more meaningful to me when I hear him miss a note and hit the neck of his guitar with his slide. I think the distinction you’re looking for is that Son House is not being superficial—he’s not just playing a scale. He means every last note and is projecting it. He’s not showing off his technique, he’s trying to create a real emotional moment.

Probably the best example I can think of where the technique is horrible, but the "soul" is through the roof.
The mistakes, which are plentiful, seem to even make it better.

[youtube][/youtube]

If we're going to quote artists, particularly those known for their guitar playing, you may want to read the final sentence of Eric Claptons comment "... And I had to leave just to preserve some kind of sanity or confidence in myself."

Extra Porous Pronouncement.

Never liked Clapton much as his music doesn't have an edge. Maybe back with the Yardbirds but not with white-boy blues noodling he done since then.

[Factorial]

EVH is simply the most innovative and creative guitarist of the rock era. Period. (Bring it, Hendrixphiles.)

Those are the only contenders? I always found EVH to be flash but nothing else. There are numerous other guitars in rock history that far exceed him. For example, any of the F's, Frith, Frissell, or Fripp. Did they have the legions of imitators? No, but they weren't looking for big hits which seems to be your criteria for musical greatness.

Bill Frissell can make the guitar sing:

[youtube][/youtube]

[Factorial]

Naked City had both Frissell and Frith as members:

[youtube][/youtube]

[columbia]

Are they doing that on purpose?

[Factorial]

Everything Naked City does is for a purpose. A reworking of Tennessee Flat Top Box:

[youtube][/youtube]

[tifosi77]

1) Frisell is a jazz guy, so comparing him to rock players is difficult at best.

2) When making an argument about how great a guitar player is, it is not good form to post a clip where the bass player steals the number.

3) The statement "[t]here are numerous other guitars in rock history that far exceed [EVH]" is completely false. The only player in the last 50 years that even comes close to the EVH level of impact is Hendrix. I put VH on top because he's more my style of music, but I can certainly see the arguments for Hendrix. Everyone else is new packaging on old goods. None of the alternative players you cited are innovative.... in any way, whatsoever. Are they good, talented musicians? Yeah, certainly, especially Fripp. But so are millions of other players. What's new about their playing? Their sound may be out there, but again, that's just packaging. When you read bio pieces about Van Halen and Hendrix you see words like 'revolutionized' a lot. You don't read that about the 'F's.... unless you're on a King Crimson fan site.

And again, if all you hear when you listen to EVH is the flash, then that's a you problem, not a VH problem.

No, but they weren't looking for big hits which seems to be your criteria for musical greatness.

Having hits certainly doesn't hurt in evaluating the impact of one player versus another. A player who has sold x millions of records and is a household name is almost by definition going to be more influential than avant garde/jazz players who most people reading this thread would have to Google to learn anything about.

But that's not what we're really talking about here. So hits has nothing to do with contemplating a musician's ability in a vacuum.

I stand by what I said; Edward Van Halen is the instrument's most inventive and creative voice of the last 50-60 years.

[Gaucho]

Why does everything have to be a competition?

Also, no offense, but saying that Fripp is not innovative is almost as questionable as saying that "this House person" is a "numpty".