Car thread

[Shyster]

First - it's about function, not form. I don't care if the A3 (or the Impreza I'm looking at, or the Mazda3 5-dr alternative) were all styled by Pininfarina and sported Borrani wire wheels, Brembo brakes and a track-ready Hewland sequential 'box connected to a multi-liter twin turbo........ they're station wagons. Their 'sporty' appeal is targeted at dudes who want some of the utility of a wagon, but haven't quite come to grips with the level of self-emasculation nascent in such a realization.

Yup. Wagons are for wimps, just like this total wussmobile: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ari_FF.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spoiler:

Which was in fact designed by Pininfarina and has carbon-ceramic Brembo brakes.

[MRandall25]

There's quite a few of those in the Columbus area (quite a few = 3 which = more than I've seen anywhere else).

[Factorial]

What does that car say about it's driver?

[columbia]

What does that car say about it's driver?

He's a sagittarius.

[MRandall25]

He enjoys speed AND some semblance of practicality?

[shafnutz05]

I guess I never really concerned myself with what people think of my car. At this stage in my life I am far more concerned about fuel mileage, practicality, room, etc.

[dodint]

What are the maintenance costs on that 2 to 3 year-old BMW? I've known a few people that bought used ones and they are sky high.

But point taken on buying a loaded fusion or loaded anything that is "cheap".

We bought a 2004 BMW 330xi in 2009, no warranty, with 50K on the odometer. It wasn't even Certified Pre-Owned, just off some small lot in New Jersey that advertised on Autotrader. We still have it now and it's approaching 160K. The most expensive repair bill was around $1100. That was to diagnose and change the ignition coils, alter something with the Mass Air Flow unit, and we did an optional computer upgrade (from BMW, not a tuner) that refined the motor some and did a bunch of emissions/fuel corrections/upgrades. I did the regular maintenance myself since there was no warranty to preserve, which included oil changes, brake pads/rotors, did some suspension tweaks/improvements, and other little stuff. It's my wife's car and the family pisses and moans about how BMWs are horrible to maintain but it's been great to us. It seems that people who complain about BMW reliability often don't own BMWs. You can say a lot of things about the Germans, and BMW especially, but saying they don't engineer stuff well is flatly wrong. We're looking to trade this car for a 535xi in a few weeks to gain some additional comfort now that I'm a big fatass. If we don't find one we like we're happy to keep the 330 another 4-5 years.

I also own a '93 325is that I'm building for track use and daily drive, and I have an '87 M6 that used to be my only car but is off the road as a project. I guess, by the logic here, that makes me a really colossal prick.

Anyway, my point was that they're not difficult to find parts for or someone to work on them. My BMW dealer is over 50 miles away, it was only up there for collision work, never for anything mechanical. Take a look around and compare the cost of consumables like rotors, pads, even suspension pieces and break the myth that they're overly expensive relative to other class competitors. My experience is as anecdotal as your friends so I urge you to do some research, like Consumer Reports or something similar.

[count2infinity]

If i ever see a guy driving a BMW, I automatically assume they're a jagoff.

Or, they're just smart car buyers.

Would you rather have a loaded ford fusion, or spend $7k less on a 2.5-3 year old, second hand loaded BMW 335/Audi S4 with ~20,000 miles?

Pretty easy decision for me - considering one can make it around a bend and one cannot.

i'm not saying it's rational... it's not. but I immediately think jagoff.

[tifosi77]

First - it's about function, not form. I don't care if the A3 (or the Impreza I'm looking at, or the Mazda3 5-dr alternative) were all styled by Pininfarina and sported Borrani wire wheels, Brembo brakes and a track-ready Hewland sequential 'box connected to a multi-liter twin turbo........ they're station wagons. Their 'sporty' appeal is targeted at dudes who want some of the utility of a wagon, but haven't quite come to grips with the level of self-emasculation nascent in such a realization.

Yup. Wagons are for wimps, just like this total wussmobile: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ari_FF.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spoiler:

Which was in fact designed by Pininfarina and has carbon-ceramic Brembo brakes.

That's not a wagon. I've been saying all along that the three-door cars are fine. Once you add the two additional doors, you are creating a wagon.

What does that car say about it's driver?

That he doesn't know cars as well as he knows marques. And he probably likes to ski.

[dodint]

But once you add those two extra doors, you are now putting the premium on utility over performance. And that's an event horizon of motoring that rarely gets uncrossed.

Paul Newman is rare.



The 5.0L V8 Volvo Wagon cobbled together by Paul Newman, owned by David Letterman, and driven by Jerry Seinfeld in his Comedians in Cars Having Coffee web series. I don't care how often it catches fire, gimme.

[Shyster]

That's not a wagon. I've been saying all along that the three-door cars are fine. Once you add the two additional doors, you are creating a wagon.

So it would be emasculating to buy a Tesla S or a Porsche Panamera? They both have four doors and a rear hatch.

[columbia]

The answer to that depends on whether you're over 15. ;)

[mac5155]

What happened to your VW?

I have that still, too. Between the wife and I, we (somehow) have 3 vehicles. lol

Why don't you sell one of them?

Like I said were looking into ditching the truck but I still need the towing capacity. My wife drives a Honda Accord with 195k on the clock and it's paid off, and I drive my TDi jetta which pays for itself in the fuel savings department.

[Firebird]

What are the maintenance costs on that 2 to 3 year-old BMW? I've known a few people that bought used ones and they are sky high.

But point taken on buying a loaded fusion or loaded anything that is "cheap".

$0, actually, full maintenance and warranty for first 4 years after delivery date (everything but the tires). If the wipers are streaking, they'll swap them out. IE, there was a small rattle in the cabin on rough roads...they took apart the entire dash and nav and laid felt tape over every part that touches another to eliminate the rattle.

[mac5155]

What are the maintenance costs on that 2 to 3 year-old BMW? I've known a few people that bought used ones and they are sky high.

But point taken on buying a loaded fusion or loaded anything that is "cheap".

$0, actually, full maintenance and warranty for first 4 years after delivery date (everything but the tires). If the wipers are streaking, they'll swap them out. IE, there was a small rattle in the cabin on rough roads...they took apart the entire dash and nav and laid felt tape over every part that touches another to eliminate the rattle.

In my experience though while this is nice it's never put back together the same way. But I've never owned a BMW

[Idoit40fans]

Yeah im wary of something like that being taken apart, but tge concern is that there willthen be a rattle so if thats what is being fixed then there really is no issue.

[tifosi77]

That's not a wagon. I've been saying all along that the three-door cars are fine. Once you add the two additional doors, you are creating a wagon.

So it would be emasculating to buy a Tesla S or a Porsche Panamera? They both have four doors and a rear hatch.

What did I say earlier? It's a question of function over form. The Tesla S and Porsche are both clearly set up and marketed as sedans ('saloon cars') that just happen to have a hatch to get into the trunk. The other 5-door hatches we're talking about are all glorified station wagons.

Consider this basic, although hardly foolproof, test: Look at the rear window line. If it's more sloped than upright, your car is more of a sedan-type vehicle, because the extra storage space you've created with the hatch is rendered largely useless by the steeply-raked line. If it's more upright (the Subie I'm looking at, the Golf, etc) you've got yourself a wagon.

It would be emasculating to buy a Panamera simply because it's a hideous vehicle to look at.

[Idoit40fans]

Is your contention that SUVs are basically station wagons? If so, I agree. The same customer base buys them and theyre used for the same purposes.

[count2infinity]

What happened to your VW?

I have that still, too. Between the wife and I, we (somehow) have 3 vehicles. lol

Why don't you sell one of them?

Like I said were looking into ditching the truck but I still need the towing capacity. My wife drives a Honda Accord with 195k on the clock and it's paid off, and I drive my TDi jetta which pays for itself in the fuel savings department.

what exactly do you need towing capacity for?

[tifosi77]

Is your contention that SUVs are basically station wagons? If so, I agree. The same customer base buys them and theyre used for the same purposes.

Yeah, I didn't pick up that line of argument, but I agree. The SUV is the modern equivalent of the station wagon, not the minivan. The minivan may have been that, for a few years, but once cars like the Jeep Cherokee started getting gentrified, the evolution went that way for the all-purpose family hauler.

[mac5155]

What happened to your VW?

I have that still, too. Between the wife and I, we (somehow) have 3 vehicles. lol

Why don't you sell one of them?

Like I said were looking into ditching the truck but I still need the towing capacity. My wife drives a Honda Accord with 195k on the clock and it's paid off, and I drive my TDi jetta which pays for itself in the fuel savings department.

what exactly do you need towing capacity for?

Trailer + side by side and/or lawn mowers. About 3,000 lbs.

Do I NEED it.. no. Do I want it,, yes.

[tifosi77]

Paul Newman is rare.

I suggest the good gentleman picks up a copy of ex-Stig Ben Collins' book "The Man In The White Suite". He briefly describes the first time he met PLN, iirc at Sebring. Pretty much had the same reaction as most did when meeting him.

When I was doing racing sponsorship stuff (geez, about ten years ago now) I worked with Newman/Haas in CART/Champ Car. My counterpart worked closely with PLN and Brian Lisles, but I was more focused on the 'activation' of the sponsorship at events, and I never got beyond the occasional pleasantry. Still, never encountered a more universally liked figure in my entire professional career; everybody loved him, and all had nothing but wonderful things to say about him.

[Malkamaniac]

I guess I never really concerned myself with what people think of my car. At this stage in my life I am far more concerned about fuel mileage, practicality, room, etc.

#DadThoughts

[dodint]

Paul Newman is rare.

I suggest the good gentleman picks up a copy of ex-Stig Ben Collins' book "The Man In The White Suite". He briefly describes the first time he met PLN, iirc at Sebring. Pretty much had the same reaction as most did when meeting him.

Dear sir, you've underestimated me as this book already resides happily upon my shelf. It was given to me during my first stint in Afghanistan, by a British chap from Ipswich, fond of competitively racing gutted panel vans.

Spoiler:

Yes, really.

[tifosi77]