Let's talk about music

[columbia]

So what explains his crappy drum sound on St. Anger?

Flipping the snares off

I meant conceptually.

[tifosi77]

I would kill to have an album sound like Justice again, just up the bass mix a bit. The guitar sound on that album was awesome, and James' voice was at its peak IMO.

To my ears, nearly every album from the 80s is mixed badly. Overly compressed, no low end oompf, spiked mids. It was like the guitar rock formula, and it started (imo) with the generally tatty condition of the sound most guitar players were going for. The only three guitarists in the 80s who had what I would call a properly good sound were EVH, SRV and Eric Johnson (and I will admit that in EJs case that might be more a matter of me really liking and admiring his musicianship as it is his actual sound). Everyone else had a sound at some point in their recording career that was all mids that sounded like it was being piped through a soup can. Hammett and Hetfield were no exceptions to this, and I would say the biggest area where 'new' Metallica is markedly better than 'old' Metallica is in the way the guitars sound.

Anyway, that preponderance for crappy guitar tones in the 80s led the drums to be recorded in a way that made them sound like anything but drums. The snares were often resonant, and the kicks were transient.... just the opposite of how they sound in real life. And I would say that Metallica has enjoyed their success largely despite the horrible kick 'sound' Lars had on those early records. It doesn't sound like a drum, it sounds like someone is hitting the phone book with a wooden spoon.

So what explains his crappy drum sound on St. Anger?

Flipping the snares off

I meant conceptually.

The individual instrument tones on Death Magnetic were pretty good, polished even. The way those sounds were committed to 'tape' made is sonically unpalatable, but it would not have sounded that way live. Lars' drums on St. Anger would have sounded like crap even run through the best Neve or SSL board with the talent knob maxed at 11. And it was just the drums that sucked.

[JS©]

I like Frantic.....thats it, thats the list.

I've heard a few people try to "remaster" the song. Although there are still a few flat, muddy parts in there, this version isn't too bad.

@tifosi77, I didn't think compression became an issue until the mid 80s when everybody was more worried about being loud vs sounding like semi-talented musicians.

[skullman80]

Better live version of Lords Of Summer...soundboard audio/video or whatnot.

[youtube][/youtube]

[the wicked child]

Re:St. Anger... the drums were so laughably bad that it killed pretty much anything that could have been decent. One thing I noticed was that every time I heard a riff and thought it sounded kinda cool, I realized that it reminded me of Sabbath or such. It was just a total failure in my eyes.

Minus the production issues already stated, Death Magentic was pretty good. I HATE Unforgiven 3, but I generally liked the rest. It certainly was the best thing they've done since the Black Album... which I actually like quite a bit... I just can't listen to Enter Sandman anymore due to overplaying.

I also agree that if they took the best songs from Load and Reload and made one album, it would have been fairly decent. Still their weakest album at that time, but much better than what we got.

[tifosi77]

@tifosi77, I didn't think compression became an issue until the mid 80s when everybody was more worried about being loud vs sounding like semi-talented musicians.

I hate saying it, because it's almost sacrilege, but...... listen to Randy Rhoads' tone on the two Ozzy records he did.

Granted, a lot of the culprits were the hair metal bands of the day that were just starting to blossom. But consider: Tipton and Downing. Murray and Smith. For all the visual effort that went into making the guitar player the center of the stage show, and certainly the central focus of the music, metal bands in the early 80s seemed to fall all over themselves in making the guitars sound small when recorded. It was just the way of things then.

[Willie Kool]

The first four albums are classics in my opinion, with Puppets being the legit best album ever, not in just rock/metal but in any genre. It is perfection personified.

Love it, but I don't think it's even their own best album. I think that would be Ride The Lightning.
IMO, the absolute pinnacle of Metallica:

[youtube][/youtube]

[columbia]

Some Kind of Monster is a completely amazing film, but not in a way that Metallica might think so.

[tifosi77]

Some Kind of Monster is a completely amazing film, but not in a way that Metallica might think so.

I remember watching with Mrs Tif and we were both of the opinion that the film did a pretty good job of making Hetfield look like a complete dooshnozzle; making Lars look like someone who genuinely cared about the future of the band, but was a bit of a jerk in the way he went about communicating; making Hammett look like slightly slow; and making Trujillo look like a lottery winner.

Oh, and it made Dave Mustaine look like an whiney, insecure little ginger.

[columbia]

Lars' father was my favorite part; he's like a grand wizard of metal.

[FreeCandy44]

I enjoyed watching the therapist think he was the 5th member of the band.

[skullman80]

Some Kind of Monster is a completely amazing film, but not in a way that Metallica might think so.

I remember watching with Mrs Tif and we were both of the opinion that the film did a pretty good job of making Hetfield look like a complete dooshnozzle; making Lars look like someone who genuinely cared about the future of the band, but was a bit of a jerk in the way he went about communicating; making Hammett look like slightly slow; and making Trujillo look like a lottery winner.

Oh, and it made Dave Mustaine look like an whiney, insecure little ginger.

Hetfield did come off like a ***** during that, but he was going through alcohol addiction and what not. It was an interesting film to watch though thats for sure.

I still say that if either James or Lars left there would be no replacing them. They have gone through bassist's for a multitude of reasons(RIP Cliff), and while Kirk is very good, he could be replaced. Hetfield and Lars are the meat and potatoes of the band. Lars may not be the worlds best drummer, but he is a good song composer and knows how things fit together, and is the business man out of the band. Hetfield is their heart and soul though... he writes probably 90+% of the riffs. As they go so do Metallica.

[skullman80]

I enjoyed watching the therapist think he was the 5th member of the band.

Haha he did really think he was like a 5th member. He thought he was like going on tour with them and being around them forever. Dude probably didnt want to lose the $$$$$$ cause I'm sure he was getting paid big bucks.

[FreeCandy44]

Metallica deserves its own thread.

[skullman80]

Re:St. Anger... the drums were so laughably bad that it killed pretty much anything that could have been decent. One thing I noticed was that every time I heard a riff and thought it sounded kinda cool, I realized that it reminded me of Sabbath or such. It was just a total failure in my eyes.

Minus the production issues already stated, Death Magentic was pretty good. I HATE Unforgiven 3, but I generally liked the rest. It certainly was the best thing they've done since the Black Album... which I actually like quite a bit... I just can't listen to Enter Sandman anymore due to overplaying.

I also agree that if they took the best songs from Load and Reload and made one album, it would have been fairly decent. Still their weakest album at that time, but much better than what we got.

Unforgiven 3 did suck, but so did Unforgiven 2 or Too.. or whatever they called it.

Both of these should have made the record over Unforgiven 3. The riff in Just a bullet away from about 1:10 in is just awesome.

[youtube][/youtube]

or

[youtube][/youtube]

[the wicked child]

Yeah, I love the original Unforgiven... it certainly didn't need a sequel, and really didn't need to be a triolgy.

[Gaucho]

Metallica deserves its own thread.

So do 250 other bands. I'm starting the Aztec Camera thread tomorrow.

[Willie Kool]

Metallica deserves its own thread.

So do 250 other bands. I'm starting the Aztec Camera thread tomorrow.

I'm sure that would be even more wildly popular than your Dudeman thread.

[MRandall25]

Metallica deserves its own thread.

So do 250 other bands. I'm starting the Aztec Camera thread tomorrow.

I'm sure that would be even more wildly popular than your Dudeman thread.

It may have more posts of people asking WTF he's talking about

[Gaucho]

Metallica deserves its own thread.

So do 250 other bands. I'm starting the Aztec Camera thread tomorrow.

I'm sure that would be even more wildly popular than your Dudeman thread.

It certainly should be.

[FreeCandy44]

This guy likes all 3 unforgivens.

[MRandall25]

I like the Unforgiven II Demo...

Yeah-dee yeah-dee yeah yeah yeah

[skullman80]

I think the demo of Broken, Beat and Scarred is better than what Made Death Magnetic, especially the chorus. Well the solo is better on the album version, but its not very good in either.

[youtube][/youtube]

[FreeCandy44]

I miss Jason and his vocals.

[skullman80]

I miss Jason's passion for heavy music. I miss that he was the one member of the band that just felt like a fan. He was the "everyday" guy in Metallica. I do miss his backup vocals on Creeping Death as well. I still like Rob though as a Bass player, and was super cool when I met him, but it would have been cool if Jason never left in the first place. One of those big "what if" questions.