I missed where Rocco said "durrr."Rylan wrote:I like when a poster has already expressed my thoughts and I don't ever have to write all that much. Thanks Rocco.
I kid, I kid...
![Scared :scared:](./images/smilies/scare.gif)
I missed where Rocco said "durrr."Rylan wrote:I like when a poster has already expressed my thoughts and I don't ever have to write all that much. Thanks Rocco.
Yeah, there sure is a culture change afoot.Mark Schlabach @Mark_Schlabach
Was told by an #SEC coach that another #SEC coach had offered 3 #PennState players scholarships by 9:30 a.m. today
You think the Pirates didn't make me say "durrr" tonight?bhaw wrote:I missed where Rocco said "durrr."Rylan wrote:I like when a poster has already expressed my thoughts and I don't ever have to write all that much. Thanks Rocco.
I kid, I kid...
Ever since I started posting Rocco has been nothing but an upstanding paranoid LGP individual.bhaw wrote:I missed where Rocco said "durrr."Rylan wrote:I like when a poster has already expressed my thoughts and I don't ever have to write all that much. Thanks Rocco.
I kid, I kid...
I have no access to watch Pirate games, so I am ill-equipped to answer that question.Rocco wrote:You think the Pirates didn't make me say "durrr" tonight?bhaw wrote:I missed where Rocco said "durrr."Rylan wrote:I like when a poster has already expressed my thoughts and I don't ever have to write all that much. Thanks Rocco.
I kid, I kid...
MWB asked a question, I answered. I guess I should ask permission first.columbia wrote:Why do you keep complaining about the process, when you don't believe that the NCAA had any right to weigh in on it in the first place?Rocco wrote:PSU earned their fate. I am concerned when a large organization breaks their own rules to hand down a punishment under nebulous grounds when there are organizations better suited to hand down punishment, with no clear understanding of when or if this process can be used in the future. I'm concerned when an organization seems driven by public opinion, and I'm concerned when an organization's response to a situation caused by massive power being given to one person involves giving massive power to one person.MWB wrote:That's what I'm not getting. Are people concerned that the investigation/punishment was handled inappropriately and it's a matter of principle? Or are people concerned that PSU is getting screwed in some way here?
It seems that if PSU paid for a report to be done, that said report was used to create a punishment that PSU signed off on, and that the punishment was done expeditiously so that PSU could move forward, what is there to complain about?
I seem to remember people initially saying the Freeh report would be a joke since PSU commissioned it.
Agreed.Its pretty obvious that this is an incredible exception to a situation that has never happend before and most likely isnt going to happen again. I really don't think theres a reason to be that concerned.
The NCAA is allowed to do whatever they want, when it comes to governing itself. I don't understand why that's so difficult for some people to grok. If they don't like it, then they should stop watching college sports.I think Rocco's parnoid that since the NCAA stepped in on this here, that they're going to "Roger Goodell" everything from now on and do as they please just because the can.
This is what I came in to ask...the whole "out of the NCAA's jurisdiction" argument, can't they pretty much do what they want? No one is forcing PSU to be a member right? Or vice versa.columbia wrote: The NCAA is allowed to do whatever they want, when it comes to governing itself. I don't understand why that's so difficult for some people to grok. If they don't like it, then they should stop watching college sports.
Right. You have to apply for membership, which means you abide by the rulings of that organization. IF there were an issue to be had, I would say its that the NCAA has a history of not comming down hard, or hard enough on major programs that have violated rules before, but they decide to go full scale assault on PSU. But even that, given the circumstances, would be a weak argument.ulf wrote:This is what I came in to ask...the whole "out of the NCAA's jurisdiction" argument, can't they pretty much do what they want? No one is forcing PSU to be a member right? Or vice versa.columbia wrote: The NCAA is allowed to do whatever they want, when it comes to governing itself. I don't understand why that's so difficult for some people to grok. If they don't like it, then they should stop watching college sports.
This is one of - if not the - the greatest organizational scandals of your lifetime.Rocco wrote:MWB asked a question, I answered. I guess I should ask permission first.columbia wrote:Why do you keep complaining about the process, when you don't believe that the NCAA had any right to weigh in on it in the first place?Rocco wrote:PSU earned their fate. I am concerned when a large organization breaks their own rules to hand down a punishment under nebulous grounds when there are organizations better suited to hand down punishment, with no clear understanding of when or if this process can be used in the future. I'm concerned when an organization seems driven by public opinion, and I'm concerned when an organization's response to a situation caused by massive power being given to one person involves giving massive power to one person.MWB wrote:That's what I'm not getting. Are people concerned that the investigation/punishment was handled inappropriately and it's a matter of principle? Or are people concerned that PSU is getting screwed in some way here?
It seems that if PSU paid for a report to be done, that said report was used to create a punishment that PSU signed off on, and that the punishment was done expeditiously so that PSU could move forward, what is there to complain about?
I seem to remember people initially saying the Freeh report would be a joke since PSU commissioned it.
Had the NCAA followed their usual procedure and determined they did have jurisdiction to drop the hammer it would be one thing. If they truly believed that because the football team was involved and there was a hypothetical impact on recruiting and this gave the NCAA the power to lay down infractions, it would have at least been interesting to see their reasoning. Instead they broke their own rules and cut a secret deal with an emasculated school president who didn't have the courage to take the deal to the whole board. The implication through Emmert's actions is that Emmert knew he couldn't deliver his preferred justice through the NCAA's rules so he gamed the system . I don't think the NCAA had jurisdiction and I don't like how they gave themselves such an incredible amount of power that apparently has no restraints. To some people that doesn't matter, and that's fine for them I suppose. I believe there's a saying about doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
I think I've laid out my reasons for concern on many grounds about PSU's actions that go beyond rank paranoia. Thank you though for calling me paranoid. What's next, accusing me of living in my mom's basement?DudeMan2766 wrote:I think Rocco's parnoid that since the NCAA stepped in on this here, that they're going to "Roger Goodell" everything from now on and do as they please just because the can. Its pretty obvious that this is an incredible exception to a situation that has never happend before and most likely isnt going to happen again. I really don't think theres a reason to be that concerned.
No, they aren't. The NCAA is made up of member organizations who agree to rules on self-governance. The executive board, rather than put a vote up to the members like they are supposed to do, circumvented its own rules. They did this because the members have shot down a number of past proposals Emmert tried to push through last summer (like a player stipend) and Emmert would not have that. If the NCAA could truly do what it wanted, players would be getting paid.columbia wrote:Agreed.Its pretty obvious that this is an incredible exception to a situation that has never happend before and most likely isnt going to happen again. I really don't think theres a reason to be that concerned.
The NCAA is allowed to do whatever they want, when it comes to governing itself. I don't understand why that's so difficult for some people to grok. If they don't like it, then they should stop watching college sports.I think Rocco's parnoid that since the NCAA stepped in on this here, that they're going to "Roger Goodell" everything from now on and do as they please just because the can.
The NCAA's authority to act and impose sanctions in this matter are severely limited by the fact that there were no clear violations of NCAA rules. The invocation of the by-laws cited in the letter are reliant upon things like "....but not limited to" in the definition of certain infractions. That's not the most solid of footing.columbia wrote:They did exactly what they wanted and that disappoints you...clearly.
Sorry, but this sounds a lot like "If you don't like the rules here, you are free to move to another country."columbia wrote:Penn State is welcome to leave the NCAA, if they are not happy with the terms of the current arrangement.
You must have enrolled in the Trolling 101 class.bhaw wrote:Sorry, but this sounds a lot like "If you don't like the rules here, you are free to move to another country."columbia wrote:Penn State is welcome to leave the NCAA, if they are not happy with the terms of the current arrangement.I agree with both sides: the NCAA circumvented the proper process here, but it's hard to blame them when the member organizations allow them the power to do so. Kind of like Vilma being mad at Goodell (since we are using that analogy). Vilma, as a player, signed off on the CBA that gave Goodell the power to do what he did... now you're crying foul because it happened to you. Sorry, breh.
I sleep fantastically well at night. I love how outraged you get when people have the nerve to disagree with you. I hope your rage at the fact that people won't just agree with you doesn't keep you up past your bedtime.columbia wrote:This is one of - if not the - the greatest organizational scandals of your lifetime.Rocco wrote:MWB asked a question, I answered. I guess I should ask permission first.columbia wrote:Why do you keep complaining about the process, when you don't believe that the NCAA had any right to weigh in on it in the first place?Rocco wrote:PSU earned their fate. I am concerned when a large organization breaks their own rules to hand down a punishment under nebulous grounds when there are organizations better suited to hand down punishment, with no clear understanding of when or if this process can be used in the future. I'm concerned when an organization seems driven by public opinion, and I'm concerned when an organization's response to a situation caused by massive power being given to one person involves giving massive power to one person.MWB wrote:That's what I'm not getting. Are people concerned that the investigation/punishment was handled inappropriately and it's a matter of principle? Or are people concerned that PSU is getting screwed in some way here?
It seems that if PSU paid for a report to be done, that said report was used to create a punishment that PSU signed off on, and that the punishment was done expeditiously so that PSU could move forward, what is there to complain about?
I seem to remember people initially saying the Freeh report would be a joke since PSU commissioned it.
Had the NCAA followed their usual procedure and determined they did have jurisdiction to drop the hammer it would be one thing. If they truly believed that because the football team was involved and there was a hypothetical impact on recruiting and this gave the NCAA the power to lay down infractions, it would have at least been interesting to see their reasoning. Instead they broke their own rules and cut a secret deal with an emasculated school president who didn't have the courage to take the deal to the whole board. The implication through Emmert's actions is that Emmert knew he couldn't deliver his preferred justice through the NCAA's rules so he gamed the system . I don't think the NCAA had jurisdiction and I don't like how they gave themselves such an incredible amount of power that apparently has no restraints. To some people that doesn't matter, and that's fine for them I suppose. I believe there's a saying about doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
The justice system took care of Sandusky and the NCAA took care of his enablers. But hey, it you want to hang on to bureaucratic notions of what's right and wrong within someone else's private organization, have at it.
I hope you sleep well at night.
I'm in my 2nd year, thank you!columbia wrote:You must have enrolled in the Trolling 101 class.bhaw wrote:Sorry, but this sounds a lot like "If you don't like the rules here, you are free to move to another country."columbia wrote:Penn State is welcome to leave the NCAA, if they are not happy with the terms of the current arrangement.I agree with both sides: the NCAA circumvented the proper process here, but it's hard to blame them when the member organizations allow them the power to do so. Kind of like Vilma being mad at Goodell (since we are using that analogy). Vilma, as a player, signed off on the CBA that gave Goodell the power to do what he did... now you're crying foul because it happened to you. Sorry, breh.
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It's a private organization.
If they don't like the rules, then they can hit the road.
Bilas seems mostly pissed that they didn't say anything about Spanier and the hypocrisy in that.... something that he routinely questions.Rocco wrote: I'm not the only one concerned, and not just here. Jay Bilas and Pat Forde among others have written articles/given interviews expressing concern about how this was handled. You should tweet at Bilas and call him a paranoid moron, he'd love that. This article from ESPN.com encapsulates many of my concerns.
Again..... it's not about Penn State, the institution, in this case. I'm sure they agreed ahead of time to whatever the NCAA decided to do.columbia wrote:It's a private organization.
If they don't like the rules, then they can hit the road.