And Fistric literally just came off of a suspension for a similar hit.The Snapshot wrote: That is embarrassing to have that hit go without a suspension. Weber is now out, and Fistric in still playing
I've lost all faith in Shanahan now.
And Fistric literally just came off of a suspension for a similar hit.The Snapshot wrote: That is embarrassing to have that hit go without a suspension. Weber is now out, and Fistric in still playing
Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?ExPatriatePen wrote:Clearly he left his feet. Sure, better video would be nice, but it's not a requirement or a substitute for common sense.the wicked child wrote:1) It wasn't Matt CookeStaggy wrote:No supplemental discipline for Fistric concussing Weber.
Seemed like a pretty clear elbow/upper arm to the head but Shanahan said the "lack of quality video for replay limited any compelling evidence and, thus, the league’s ability to act", whatever the hell that means.Spoiler:
2) A Predator was the victim
3) See #1
You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.Physical_Graffiti wrote:Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?
But as long as the head isn't the principal point of contact (it doesn't appear to be to me), the hit is legal, no?Staggy wrote:You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.Physical_Graffiti wrote:Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?
As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.
I don't know other than the fact that they still believe they can intimidate teams. Hartnell actually swings his stick and engages Malone on their bench. I believe that is a huge no no, but I haven't heard anything about it on the NHL or TSN sites. That is the kind of thing that can start a brawl.Sarcastic wrote:I watched the 3rd period of Flyers/Bolts last night and Downie got blasted from behind into the boards really really bad. My initial thoughts were that's a 5 minute penalty, but it wasn't even called. I'd like to see a replay of that again.
Flyers have been running around all snarly lately. What's up with that? Check out Simmonds pummel a bolt and then Hartnell go up to their bench.
[youtube][/youtube]
It looks like the elbow and forearm get up into Weber's head just as it did for Engelland's hit. Not sure I see a major difference in the follow-through or the result, but what do I know? Oh wait, I do know.....Weber has a concussion and it wasn't from Fistric's body - it was his elbow.Physical_Graffiti wrote:But as long as the head isn't the principal point of contact (it doesn't appear to be to me), the hit is legal, no?Staggy wrote:You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.Physical_Graffiti wrote:Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?
As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.
I just saw that for the first time. If Shanny doesn't suspend Hartnell for at least three games for that tomahawk, he's asking for trouble.The Snapshot wrote:I don't know other than the fact that they still believe they can intimidate teams. Hartnell actually swings his stick and engages Malone on their bench. I believe that is a huge no no, but I haven't heard anything about it on the NHL or TSN sites. That is the kind of thing that can start a brawl.Sarcastic wrote:I watched the 3rd period of Flyers/Bolts last night and Downie got blasted from behind into the boards really really bad. My initial thoughts were that's a 5 minute penalty, but it wasn't even called. I'd like to see a replay of that again.
Flyers have been running around all snarly lately. What's up with that? Check out Simmonds pummel a bolt and then Hartnell go up to their bench.
[youtube][/youtube]
It appears more likely that Malone might get something for leaving the bench. He was on it until Hartnell slashed his stick. The Flyers are always pushing the envelope. Even Wayne Simmonds, who is a good hard player, goes after Brewer and goads him into a fight - which could have ended Brewer's night or worse. Brewer is obviously not as skilled as Brewer with the mitts.ExPatriatePen wrote:I just saw that for the first time. If Shanny doesn't suspend Hartnell for at least three games for that tomahawk, he's asking for trouble.The Snapshot wrote:I don't know other than the fact that they still believe they can intimidate teams. Hartnell actually swings his stick and engages Malone on their bench. I believe that is a huge no no, but I haven't heard anything about it on the NHL or TSN sites. That is the kind of thing that can start a brawl.Sarcastic wrote:I watched the 3rd period of Flyers/Bolts last night and Downie got blasted from behind into the boards really really bad. My initial thoughts were that's a 5 minute penalty, but it wasn't even called. I'd like to see a replay of that again.
Flyers have been running around all snarly lately. What's up with that? Check out Simmonds pummel a bolt and then Hartnell go up to their bench.
[youtube][/youtube]
How do you know this? Do you have a camera angle that can prove this?The Snapshot wrote:It looks like the elbow and forearm get up into Weber's head just as it did for Engelland's hit. Not sure I see a major difference in the follow-through or the result, but what do I know? Oh wait, I do know.....Weber has a concussion and it wasn't from Fistric's body - it was his elbow.Physical_Graffiti wrote:But as long as the head isn't the principal point of contact (it doesn't appear to be to me), the hit is legal, no?Staggy wrote:You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.Physical_Graffiti wrote:Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?
As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.
Yeah, that would be legal. I guess we just disagree about whether the head was the principal point of contact then. Hard to tell for sure, but I think it was.Physical_Graffiti wrote:But as long as the head isn't the principal point of contact (it doesn't appear to be to me), the hit is legal, no?Staggy wrote:You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.Physical_Graffiti wrote:Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?
As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.
bhaw wrote:http://www.hockeywilderness.com/2011/12 ... for-mcleod
I'd say not all of the hits listed are problems, but there are definitely some major issues here with the suspensions vs non-suspensions for the hits the Wild writer is pointing out.
This is probably the best solution.Malkamaniac wrote:More and more I think they need someone totally non biased outside of the sport to make these calls.
I almost feel if that'd be too easy. If the situation is to remove all headshots, no idea why this wouldn't work. It's apparently evident to a lot of people that this discipline czar is too biased and focused on the "hockey plays" to be taken seriously. I would imagine if they baseline'd it to the point where you hit the head, you out no matter what, the players would change radically. Or they wouldn't, who knows lol.ExPatriatePen wrote:This is probably the best solution.Malkamaniac wrote:More and more I think they need someone totally non biased outside of the sport to make these calls.
Pick some attorney who maybe even served on the bench at some point, put him in charge. Make Shanny the technical consultant on the "hockey aspects".
Problem solved. You end up with someone who's trained to be unbiased and enforce the laws/rules equally and someone who understands the hockey aspects as his advisor.
It really doesn't require an ex hockey player to look at a video and determine if one player took a shot at another players head.
renhockey No suspension or fines for Lightning and Flyers after the Tampa bench incident Tuesday.
I'm fine with that actually. There wasn't much and suspending Malone for coming off the bench and standing there would have been dumb. Nothing major happened in that incident.Malkamaniac wrote:renhockey No suspension or fines for Lightning and Flyers after the Tampa bench incident Tuesday.
Wow, so Hartnell can swing his stick like a weapon and the league isn't concerned?Malkamaniac wrote:renhockey No suspension or fines for Lightning and Flyers after the Tampa bench incident Tuesday.
The thing is, that was a major point in Engelland's suspension - that he left his feet and exploded up into the hit. Then, a guy like Fistric clearly leaves his feet and uses his elbow and forearm to connect with Weber's head - and goes unpunished. I am baffled by the folks who claim the video isn't clear - do we need to see the snot bubbles exiting Weber's nose to know he was hit in the head with the elbow that clearly comes up?bhaw wrote:I posted this in the Crosby thread but it's worth noting here, as it's more applicable.
One thing they need to look at is this notion that exploding UP into a hit is ok. That developed in the last few years as common practice and 99% of fans have come to accept it.
It's intent to injure. The only reason to explode UP into a hit is to KO someone. What happened to driving through them? Start penalizing players who leave their feet on checks, before or after. Make players go back to driving straight through someone instead of up into their dome.
People will flame the crap out of this idea, but I'm serious. It won't make it ballet on ice, it's just changing the angle of attack. You can still make the same hits but you aren't exploding into the guy's head, you are driving through them.
4 years ago, this was considered leaving your feet and potentially a dirty hit: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He didn't even come close to Avery's head or throw an elbow, but got a penalty for the hit. There was serious debate around the league and on this board about whether this hit was dirty or not. Today, would you even question it?
(side note: look who takes offense to the hit, lol)
Now these are considered 100% acceptable and examples of just "good hard hockey." " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Getting 6-10 inches off the ground, back of the shoulder up into a guy's head.
Four years and that's the change. Refs stopped calling penalties and the NHL stopped punishing players. Give an inch and the players will take a mile.
I didn't see it, but heard about it the next day. I'm indifferent on it I suppose.bhaw wrote:I'm fine with that actually. There wasn't much and suspending Malone for coming off the bench and standing there would have been dumb. Nothing major happened in that incident.Malkamaniac wrote:renhockey No suspension or fines for Lightning and Flyers after the Tampa bench incident Tuesday.