Sheriff Shanny

[MRandall25]

That is embarrassing to have that hit go without a suspension. Weber is now out, and Fistric in still playing

And Fistric literally just came off of a suspension for a similar hit.

I've lost all faith in Shanahan now.

[Malkamaniac]

Just so much inconsistency.

[Physical_Graffiti]

No supplemental discipline for Fistric concussing Weber.

Spoiler:

[youtube][/youtube]

Seemed like a pretty clear elbow/upper arm to the head but Shanahan said the "lack of quality video for replay limited any compelling evidence and, thus, the league’s ability to act", whatever the hell that means.

1) It wasn't Matt Cooke
2) A Predator was the victim
3) See #1

Clearly he left his feet. Sure, better video would be nice, but it's not a requirement or a substitute for common sense.

Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?

[Staggy]

Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?

You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.

As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.

[Physical_Graffiti]

Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?

You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.

As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.

But as long as the head isn't the principal point of contact (it doesn't appear to be to me), the hit is legal, no?

[The Snapshot]

I watched the 3rd period of Flyers/Bolts last night and Downie got blasted from behind into the boards really really bad. My initial thoughts were that's a 5 minute penalty, but it wasn't even called. I'd like to see a replay of that again.

Flyers have been running around all snarly lately. What's up with that? Check out Simmonds pummel a bolt and then Hartnell go up to their bench.

[youtube][/youtube]

I don't know other than the fact that they still believe they can intimidate teams. Hartnell actually swings his stick and engages Malone on their bench. I believe that is a huge no no, but I haven't heard anything about it on the NHL or TSN sites. That is the kind of thing that can start a brawl.

[The Snapshot]

Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?

You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.

As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.

But as long as the head isn't the principal point of contact (it doesn't appear to be to me), the hit is legal, no?

It looks like the elbow and forearm get up into Weber's head just as it did for Engelland's hit. Not sure I see a major difference in the follow-through or the result, but what do I know? Oh wait, I do know.....Weber has a concussion and it wasn't from Fistric's body - it was his elbow.

[ExPatriatePen]

I watched the 3rd period of Flyers/Bolts last night and Downie got blasted from behind into the boards really really bad. My initial thoughts were that's a 5 minute penalty, but it wasn't even called. I'd like to see a replay of that again.

Flyers have been running around all snarly lately. What's up with that? Check out Simmonds pummel a bolt and then Hartnell go up to their bench.

[youtube][/youtube]

I don't know other than the fact that they still believe they can intimidate teams. Hartnell actually swings his stick and engages Malone on their bench. I believe that is a huge no no, but I haven't heard anything about it on the NHL or TSN sites. That is the kind of thing that can start a brawl.

I just saw that for the first time. If Shanny doesn't suspend Hartnell for at least three games for that tomahawk, he's asking for trouble.

[The Snapshot]

I watched the 3rd period of Flyers/Bolts last night and Downie got blasted from behind into the boards really really bad. My initial thoughts were that's a 5 minute penalty, but it wasn't even called. I'd like to see a replay of that again.

Flyers have been running around all snarly lately. What's up with that? Check out Simmonds pummel a bolt and then Hartnell go up to their bench.

[youtube][/youtube]

I don't know other than the fact that they still believe they can intimidate teams. Hartnell actually swings his stick and engages Malone on their bench. I believe that is a huge no no, but I haven't heard anything about it on the NHL or TSN sites. That is the kind of thing that can start a brawl.

I just saw that for the first time. If Shanny doesn't suspend Hartnell for at least three games for that tomahawk, he's asking for trouble.

It appears more likely that Malone might get something for leaving the bench. He was on it until Hartnell slashed his stick. The Flyers are always pushing the envelope. Even Wayne Simmonds, who is a good hard player, goes after Brewer and goads him into a fight - which could have ended Brewer's night or worse. Brewer is obviously not as skilled as Brewer with the mitts.

The Flyers don't want to stop goonery when they are losing the game. It is so ingrained in their philosophy.

[Physical_Graffiti]

Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?

You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.

As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.

But as long as the head isn't the principal point of contact (it doesn't appear to be to me), the hit is legal, no?

It looks like the elbow and forearm get up into Weber's head just as it did for Engelland's hit. Not sure I see a major difference in the follow-through or the result, but what do I know? Oh wait, I do know.....Weber has a concussion and it wasn't from Fistric's body - it was his elbow.

How do you know this? Do you have a camera angle that can prove this?

[Staggy]

Before the hit, or as a result of the follow through?

You can't really tell from this video, but even if it was as a result of the follow through I don't think that's any better in this scenario. He launched himself upwards towards Weber's head, so whether he left his feet before or after making contact with the head doesn't really matter.

As EPP said, a nice, old school hip check would have worked perfectly in that situation.

But as long as the head isn't the principal point of contact (it doesn't appear to be to me), the hit is legal, no?

Yeah, that would be legal. I guess we just disagree about whether the head was the principal point of contact then. Hard to tell for sure, but I think it was.

[bhaw]

http://www.hockeywilderness.com/2011/12 ... for-mcleod" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd say not all of the hits listed are problems, but there are definitely some major issues here with the suspensions vs non-suspensions for the hits the Wild writer is pointing out.

[bhaw]

Shanahan's emphasis on player safety is truly playing off. Through end of business on Dec 27th, there were 31 reported concussions in the month of December.

http://nhl-red-light.si.com/2011/12/28/ ... ncussions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What a dirt ball. And what a sham of a PR move emphasizing player safety and having statistics like this.

If you fail 31 times at your job in 27 days, you suck at your job. Player safety is about getting control of the players. Shanahan has zero control and it seems to be spiraling the wrong way. How many more star players do we need to lose? By next year, teams are going to be composed of 3rd and 4th liners with IR lists that look like the Olympic rosters.

[ffemtreed]

http://www.hockeywilderness.com/2011/12 ... for-mcleod

I'd say not all of the hits listed are problems, but there are definitely some major issues here with the suspensions vs non-suspensions for the hits the Wild writer is pointing out.

I think almost every team in the league can put together one of those video's with just as much evidence. There is clearly NO standard set in the NHL for what is and what isn't a suspension. Some suspensions have been complete jokes, like Letang's early in the year, then you have hits where a 2 year old could see was suspension worthy and they don't even get a review.

Shanny is a complete JOKE in his current role and his little videos are insulting to our intelligence most of the time.

[bhaw]

I agree. Just pointing out that we aren't the only ones. Several people on this board have claimed it's a Pens thing whining about Crosby or Engelland. Everyone sees it.

[Malkamaniac]

More and more I think they need someone totally non biased outside of the sport to make these calls.

[ExPatriatePen]

More and more I think they need someone totally non biased outside of the sport to make these calls.

This is probably the best solution.

Pick some attorney who maybe even served on the bench at some point, put him in charge. Make Shanny the technical consultant on the "hockey aspects".

Problem solved. You end up with someone who's trained to be unbiased and enforce the laws/rules equally and someone who understands the hockey aspects as his advisor.

It really doesn't require an ex hockey player to look at a video and determine if one player took a shot at another players head.

[Malkamaniac]

More and more I think they need someone totally non biased outside of the sport to make these calls.

This is probably the best solution.

Pick some attorney who maybe even served on the bench at some point, put him in charge. Make Shanny the technical consultant on the "hockey aspects".

Problem solved. You end up with someone who's trained to be unbiased and enforce the laws/rules equally and someone who understands the hockey aspects as his advisor.

It really doesn't require an ex hockey player to look at a video and determine if one player took a shot at another players head.

I almost feel if that'd be too easy. If the situation is to remove all headshots, no idea why this wouldn't work. It's apparently evident to a lot of people that this discipline czar is too biased and focused on the "hockey plays" to be taken seriously. I would imagine if they baseline'd it to the point where you hit the head, you out no matter what, the players would change radically. Or they wouldn't, who knows lol.

[Malkamaniac]

renhockey No suspension or fines for Lightning and Flyers after the Tampa bench incident Tuesday.

[bhaw]

renhockey No suspension or fines for Lightning and Flyers after the Tampa bench incident Tuesday.

I'm fine with that actually. There wasn't much and suspending Malone for coming off the bench and standing there would have been dumb. Nothing major happened in that incident.

[ExPatriatePen]

renhockey No suspension or fines for Lightning and Flyers after the Tampa bench incident Tuesday.

Wow, so Hartnell can swing his stick like a weapon and the league isn't concerned?

This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that if Hartnell had been suspended the suspension most likely would have included the Wonter Classic. Nah, that can't be it.

Edit: just to be clear, I don't think Malone should have gotten any supplementary discipline. (he didn't put anyone's safety in jeopardy) but Hartnell? Come on Man.

[bhaw]

I posted this in the Crosby thread but it's worth noting here, as it's more applicable.

One thing they need to look at is this notion that exploding UP into a hit is ok. That developed in the last few years as common practice and 99% of fans have come to accept it.

It's intent to injure. The only reason to explode UP into a hit is to KO someone. What happened to driving through them? Start penalizing players who leave their feet on checks, before or after. Make players go back to driving straight through someone instead of up into their dome.

People will flame the crap out of this idea, but I'm serious. It won't make it ballet on ice, it's just changing the angle of attack. You can still make the same hits but you aren't exploding into the guy's head, you are driving through them.

4 years ago, this was considered leaving your feet and potentially a dirty hit: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He didn't even come close to Avery's head or throw an elbow, but got a penalty for the hit. There was serious debate around the league and on this board about whether this hit was dirty or not. Today, would you even question it?
(side note: look who takes offense to the hit, lol)

Now these are considered 100% acceptable and examples of just "good hard hockey." " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Getting 6-10 inches off the ground, back of the shoulder up into a guy's head.

Four years and that's the change. Refs stopped calling penalties and the NHL stopped punishing players. Give an inch and the players will take a mile.

[The Snapshot]

I posted this in the Crosby thread but it's worth noting here, as it's more applicable.

One thing they need to look at is this notion that exploding UP into a hit is ok. That developed in the last few years as common practice and 99% of fans have come to accept it.

It's intent to injure. The only reason to explode UP into a hit is to KO someone. What happened to driving through them? Start penalizing players who leave their feet on checks, before or after. Make players go back to driving straight through someone instead of up into their dome.

People will flame the crap out of this idea, but I'm serious. It won't make it ballet on ice, it's just changing the angle of attack. You can still make the same hits but you aren't exploding into the guy's head, you are driving through them.

4 years ago, this was considered leaving your feet and potentially a dirty hit: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He didn't even come close to Avery's head or throw an elbow, but got a penalty for the hit. There was serious debate around the league and on this board about whether this hit was dirty or not. Today, would you even question it?
(side note: look who takes offense to the hit, lol)

Now these are considered 100% acceptable and examples of just "good hard hockey." " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Getting 6-10 inches off the ground, back of the shoulder up into a guy's head.

Four years and that's the change. Refs stopped calling penalties and the NHL stopped punishing players. Give an inch and the players will take a mile.

The thing is, that was a major point in Engelland's suspension - that he left his feet and exploded up into the hit. Then, a guy like Fistric clearly leaves his feet and uses his elbow and forearm to connect with Weber's head - and goes unpunished. I am baffled by the folks who claim the video isn't clear - do we need to see the snot bubbles exiting Weber's nose to know he was hit in the head with the elbow that clearly comes up?

Kronwall would be out of the league in a year if every time he left his feet he was suspended on an escalating scale. Jordan Tootoo. Marc Fistric. Ovechkin (well, we he used to hit). Helm from Detroit. Cam Jansen in NJ. Sutton is the worst offender because he is huge and does it all the time in the neutral zone. These guys all use their bodies as missiles with regularity.

[Malkamaniac]

renhockey No suspension or fines for Lightning and Flyers after the Tampa bench incident Tuesday.

I'm fine with that actually. There wasn't much and suspending Malone for coming off the bench and standing there would have been dumb. Nothing major happened in that incident.

I didn't see it, but heard about it the next day. I'm indifferent on it I suppose.

[bhaw]

It doesn't even have to be all on Shanahan. Make the refs call it as a penalty. It will stop if it's regularly enforced. Shanny has been terrible, but blame also falls on the refs who have been absolutely clueless in recent years in calling penalties. The suspensions are ridiculously inconsistent, but the front line is the on ice officiating.

If you call a penalty (2 min) every time someone leaves their feet for a check, before or after, you remove the grey area, you aren't punishing every person with a suspension, and it WILL stop if the players involved wish to remain employed. Call 5 minutes for gross violations and review the really bad ones. You could get that out of the game in 1/2 a year if you tried.

It comes down to the fact that they don't want to get it out and they really don't care about player safety.