This topic here interests me. I have been doing a lot of reading on different voting methods lately and it seems that the plurality vote that we use for almost every public office in this nation is actually one of the worst ways to decide an election. Every candidate running essentially can effect all the others. This shouldn't be. It makes it too easy for the two big parties to manipulate the third party candidates and use them as pawns to get themselves elected. The more I read the more i realize that they do it all the time. If we changed to a range type voting system then every candidate is ranked not based upon other candidates but upon their individual rankings. This way you get a much more averaged view of each candidate and how people feel about them. There are multiple reasons that smaller parties have difficult times sticking and growing but I think changing the electoral process would definitely help to oust the really extreme candidates and allow more moderate people to attain office. I think that the plurality vote contributes to the polarization we see in our government. It pits on side vs the other. It makes it where you can't not vote for one side because then your vote just won't count. Anyways, if you fulfill your dream and get into constitutional law, think about the method people are elected. I think there is something there worth thinking about. The more I think about it, the more that I believe it is unfair.dagny wrote:Why have they continued to stay in power?
LGP Political Discussion Thread
-
- AHL'er
- Posts: 4610
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:48 pm
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
-
- AHL'er
- Posts: 4610
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:48 pm
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Well isn't living off the government basically the same thing as selling yourself to slavery? Once you go that way, it's a hard road back.Guinness wrote:I guess that's really the crux of it - protecting people we consider to be too stupid to protect themselves.HomerPenguin wrote:Or, better yet, we could let people sell themselves into slavery.Guinness wrote:
Eliminate the minimum wage.
-
- AHL'er
- Posts: 4610
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:48 pm
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
What if we made it easy to become a citizen? They are here anyways, working, living, raising children. At least as citizens they'd pay taxes.HomerPenguin wrote:The principle of the thing is all fine and dandy, but translate it into something practical. I don't want to keep subsidizing illegal immigrants, or anybody else for that matter, receiving ER treatment without insurance. Does anybody else?
You know how you could end or at least shrink the problem? Top executives at any company found to be employing illegals get one year in prison for every illegal they're employing. But we'd rather blame the dirt-poor indigent workers, about whom there is no good solution, than the companies that employ them to avoid having to pay legal wages to legal residents, about which there may be a fairly straightforward solution. How grotesque is that?
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 14111
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:47 am
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Then why would they want to?bh wrote:What if we made it easy to become a citizen? They are here anyways, working, living, raising children. At least as citizens they'd pay taxes.HomerPenguin wrote:The principle of the thing is all fine and dandy, but translate it into something practical. I don't want to keep subsidizing illegal immigrants, or anybody else for that matter, receiving ER treatment without insurance. Does anybody else?
You know how you could end or at least shrink the problem? Top executives at any company found to be employing illegals get one year in prison for every illegal they're employing. But we'd rather blame the dirt-poor indigent workers, about whom there is no good solution, than the companies that employ them to avoid having to pay legal wages to legal residents, about which there may be a fairly straightforward solution. How grotesque is that?
-
- AHL'er
- Posts: 4610
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:48 pm
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
I agree that we are atomized. Why do you think this is?doublem wrote:in this atomized country,
what exactly are these ideas and ideals you are referring to?doublem wrote:Edit: I love what this country aspired to be, and still does at points,that is what I want, the ideals it was founded on, it was such a noble experiment. The great revolutionary ideas, and thinkers. The problem now is that is all basically dead, all long term vision is gone, and so are ideas, we have reached a period of stagnancy, and this isn't new, it's been happening for about 80 plus years.
-
- NHL Third Liner
- Posts: 28740
- Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:00 pm
- Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Because they clearly like following the laws so would do it out of the kindness of their hearts.Corvidae wrote:Then why would they want to?bh wrote:What if we made it easy to become a citizen? They are here anyways, working, living, raising children. At least as citizens they'd pay taxes.HomerPenguin wrote:The principle of the thing is all fine and dandy, but translate it into something practical. I don't want to keep subsidizing illegal immigrants, or anybody else for that matter, receiving ER treatment without insurance. Does anybody else?
You know how you could end or at least shrink the problem? Top executives at any company found to be employing illegals get one year in prison for every illegal they're employing. But we'd rather blame the dirt-poor indigent workers, about whom there is no good solution, than the companies that employ them to avoid having to pay legal wages to legal residents, about which there may be a fairly straightforward solution. How grotesque is that?
Better solution... for every illegal that comes into the US, we send them a Flyer fan.
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 13430
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:05 pm
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
We are beat over the head all day long being told how we are different. We are also viewed very individualistic, which hurts when social issue occur which needs people to think outside of themselves, or just solely themselves.The media is a great example of this, i.e. flip-flopping, like changing one's position on an issue should be considered a sign of weakness instead of growth. T.V. does it great if you agree with so and so, then you have to on this side, like we are six. The talk show yelling format that everyone loves so much is another great example of how they try to break us apart. Plus, technology has taken a new part in all of this becasue the internet is very self- selective, so instead of learning about other ideas people tend to go to where they already agree with. I think that is a start.bh wrote:I agree that we are atomized. Why do you think this is?doublem wrote:in this atomized country,
what exactly are these ideas and ideals you are referring to?doublem wrote:Edit: I love what this country aspired to be, and still does at points,that is what I want, the ideals it was founded on, it was such a noble experiment. The great revolutionary ideas, and thinkers. The problem now is that is all basically dead, all long term vision is gone, and so are ideas, we have reached a period of stagnancy, and this isn't new, it's been happening for about 80 plus years.
America was a very noble experiment, self-governance, a land where everyone ideally was treated equally, everyone if wanted, could have a chance of success, the idea the politics or government had a role to play in shaping a country, not just big money, and that people were rational enough to take part in government, which people in power now don't think we are, they think we are stupid and need to controlled by things. (consumerism). I think many see government as a form of control which might be true to some degree, but I think what government should be is a sign of human progress, which I think the founders thought.
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 13430
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:05 pm
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Not really, since having the government "take care of you" basically has you living under the poverty line anyways. If you got rid of the mim rage, people could sell themselves in theory. That is a problem I have with that thinking, if everything has a monetary value attached to it, should people be able to sell themselves, since they are free to do so, which would lead to a market for slaves?
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 13430
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:05 pm
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
How can this be?
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archiv ... president/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archiv ... president/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 22691
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:57 pm
- Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Anyone want a "sightly" damaged liver?doublem wrote:Not really, since having the government "take care of you" basically has you living under the poverty line anyways. If you got rid of the mim rage, people could sell themselves in theory. That is a problem I have with that thinking, if everything has a monetary value attached to it, should people be able to sell themselves, since they are free to do so, which would lead to a market for slaves?
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 10884
- Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:50 am
- Location: ...
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Highly problematic, because they're breaking the law, and because it lets the next 13 million illegals know that eventually they'll be allowed to stay legally too.bh wrote:What if we made it easy to become a citizen? They are here anyways, working, living, raising children. At least as citizens they'd pay taxes.
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 10884
- Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:50 am
- Location: ...
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Why? Eliminating the minimum wage is going to create a whole bunch of wage slaves anyway. Why not give people the choice to get that money up front at its highest value? Are we not free to sell away our freedom in the Almighty Marketplace?Guinness wrote:I guess that's really the crux of it - protecting people we consider to be too stupid to protect themselves.HomerPenguin wrote:Or, better yet, we could let people sell themselves into slavery.Guinness wrote:
Eliminate the minimum wage.
-
- AHL All-Star
- Posts: 6750
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:06 pm
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Lets go through and ask teachers to name them. I'm sure a large percent of them can't.doublem wrote:How can this be?
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archiv ... president/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 15747
- Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:36 pm
- Location: Charlotte, NC
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Yes, teachers is stoopid.pittsoccer33 wrote:Lets go through and ask teachers to name them. I'm sure a large percent of them can't.doublem wrote:How can this be?
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archiv ... president/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 15747
- Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:36 pm
- Location: Charlotte, NC
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
If you read through the commentary below the results it's pretty easy to see how it can be. Not real scientific calling up 1000 kids and asking them these questions, stating that it's fine to say "I don't know" for an answer.doublem wrote:How can this be?
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archiv ... president/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 11465
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:30 am
- Location: At the pub
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
I'm not sure I'm following you... I was being facetious.HomerPenguin wrote:Why? Eliminating the minimum wage is going to create a whole bunch of wage slaves anyway. Why not give people the choice to get that money up front at its highest value? Are we not free to sell away our freedom in the Almighty Marketplace?Guinness wrote:
I guess that's really the crux of it - protecting people we consider to be too stupid to protect themselves.
I would advocate eliminating the minimum wage in a truly free market. What we have is a centrally-administered economy.
-
- AHL All-Star
- Posts: 5942
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:40 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
The minimum wage is a highly antiquated irrelavent discussion. Very very few individuals live off of the minimum wage, and the bulk of individuals working on the minimum wage are high schoolers and elderly individuals looking to keep busy, or being forced to go out and "do something" by their parents. So this crap about letting people sell themselves into "slave labor" is a joke, except for the minute percentage of individuals that actually try to live off of a minimum wage salary.
No - the only reason, truly, that there is a minimum wage, is because union contracts are tied to that figure - and when the minimum wage goes up, so does their highly inflated union salary.
No - the only reason, truly, that there is a minimum wage, is because union contracts are tied to that figure - and when the minimum wage goes up, so does their highly inflated union salary.
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 10037
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:58 pm
- Location: Central PA
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
And truth be told, the illegals at least, they typically make more, sometimes much more than minimum wage.... up to 3 X minimum wage in my experience... difference is they get no benefits period from the employer including stuff the employer is supposed to pay for and provide by law... Examples unemployment, workmans comp etc...Guinness wrote:I'm not sure I'm following you... I was being facetious.HomerPenguin wrote:Why? Eliminating the minimum wage is going to create a whole bunch of wage slaves anyway. Why not give people the choice to get that money up front at its highest value? Are we not free to sell away our freedom in the Almighty Marketplace?Guinness wrote:
I guess that's really the crux of it - protecting people we consider to be too stupid to protect themselves.
I would advocate eliminating the minimum wage in a truly free market. What we have is a centrally-administered economy.
Which is why most of the politico's won't tackle the real issue, they just want to turn a cheek and declare them citizens. Which will make them unemployable again in todays world. Meaning they will be on the government dime going forward either way....
-
- AHL All-Star
- Posts: 5254
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:51 am
- Location: BANNED for liking Butterfingers
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Shhhhhhhh, the unions dont want people to know that. SEIU will send their thugs after you if you're not carefultonysoprano wrote: No - the only reason, truly, that there is a minimum wage, is because union contracts are tied to that figure - and when the minimum wage goes up, so does their highly inflated union salary.
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 10884
- Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:50 am
- Location: ...
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Damn the unions! If it weren't for them we could be living in a nineteenth century UTOPIA!
-
- AHL All-Star
- Posts: 5942
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:40 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
If it were the 19th century, at least there'd be call to have unions, when company's truly took advantage of their employees. With round the clock 24 hour news and the internet, any true abuse of employees would be exposed in common day American within a half hour of it actually going down.HomerPenguin wrote:Damn the unions! If it weren't for them we could be living in a nineteenth century UTOPIA!
Nope. Nowadays, unions acts as nothing more than legalized extortion. You needn't look any further than the dozens of employees that were paid $32/ hr to sit and play spades in the GM plants to recognize that. It's a joke.
So yes - damn the unions.
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 15747
- Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:36 pm
- Location: Charlotte, NC
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Some unions are bad, some unions are still useful. Or, I guess one could say, most unions still have some useful aspects to them.tonysoprano wrote:If it were the 19th century, at least there'd be call to have unions, when company's truly took advantage of their employees. With round the clock 24 hour news and the internet, any true abuse of employees would be exposed in common day American within a half hour of it actually going down.HomerPenguin wrote:Damn the unions! If it weren't for them we could be living in a nineteenth century UTOPIA!
Nope. Nowadays, unions acts as nothing more than legalized extortion. You needn't look any further than the dozens of employees that were paid $32/ hr to sit and play spades in the GM plants to recognize that. It's a joke.
So yes - damn the unions.
-
- AHL All-Star
- Posts: 5942
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:40 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Most unions have "some" useful aspects. That does sound like a ringing endorsement. They're an antiquated abrasive cash grab, and nothing more.MWB wrote:Some unions are bad, some unions are still useful. Or, I guess one could say, most unions still have some useful aspects to them.tonysoprano wrote:If it were the 19th century, at least there'd be call to have unions, when company's truly took advantage of their employees. With round the clock 24 hour news and the internet, any true abuse of employees would be exposed in common day American within a half hour of it actually going down.HomerPenguin wrote:Damn the unions! If it weren't for them we could be living in a nineteenth century UTOPIA!
Nope. Nowadays, unions acts as nothing more than legalized extortion. You needn't look any further than the dozens of employees that were paid $32/ hr to sit and play spades in the GM plants to recognize that. It's a joke.
So yes - damn the unions.
-
- NHL Healthy Scratch
- Posts: 10884
- Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:50 am
- Location: ...
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Exactly! If it weren't for unions, we could go back to the glorious days when only ownership and management made abrasive cash grabs! Why, as recently as 1965 CEOs made an average of 24 times the salary of an average worker. By 2005, thanks to the pernicious money-grabbing power of our union overlords, that figure had been cut to a mere 262 times what an average worker makes! ARGH! It makes me so MAD!tonysoprano wrote:They're an antiquated abrasive cash grab, and nothing more.
-
- AHL All-Star
- Posts: 5942
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:40 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: LGP Politcal Discussion Thread
Oh, how I do love the political beauty of envy!HomerPenguin wrote:Exactly! If it weren't for unions, we could go back to the glorious days when only ownership and management made abrasive cash grabs! Why, as recently as 1965 CEOs made an average of 24 times the salary of an average worker. By 2005, thanks to the pernicious money-grabbing power of our union overlords, that figure had been cut to a mere 262 times what an average worker makes! ARGH! It makes me so MAD!tonysoprano wrote:They're an antiquated abrasive cash grab, and nothing more.
Fact is, the problem with unskilled labor is that anyone can do it. CEOs make what they make because they've acquired a skillset. The bigger question - how much of a P&L does the CEO's salary take up compared to hit all that unskilled labor has on the bottom line? I think you'd be pretty surprised. Not that the facts smacking you in the face would do anything.
But by all means! Let's mandate that everyone make $40 an hour! It'd be completely awesome! Because at the end of the day, $40 an hour may as well be $0 an hour, when the company can't turn a profit big enough to support it's union.