I lived child labor and it taught me alot about values... think about that....HomerPenguin wrote:Since everybody remembers things they way they want to remember them, I'm not sure where the offense lies. I'm particularly not sure how it's more offensive than your suggestion that your high school history teachers deliberately failed to teach their students properly because they were all anti-Christian zealots, but to each his own I guess.PensFanInDC wrote:Wow....what a nasty remark.HomerPenguin wrote:although I suspect you're remembering things the way you want to remember them.
LGP Political Discussion Thread
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
That works. It fits with how most libertarians seem to conceive of themselves: alone on their island of rugged virtue, surrounded by swarms of Pol Pot wannabes.Guinness wrote:We're really overly examining this, aren't we? Alright - I submit. I'm a radical centrist. I've got authoritarians all around me. To the left there are socialist-authoritarians and to the right there are fascist-authoritarians. You leftists-authoritarians don't want do be associated with rightist-authoritarians. I can understand that. From where I sit, there is precious little difference.HomerPenguin wrote: And there's the problem in a nutshell. Who made that the "appropriate" definition? Isn't the "pro-liberty" position classically liberal? Or are we decoupling "left" and "liberal" too? Why so hung up on which direction we're going?
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
As soon as you explain to me what it means, I'll think about it.Ron` wrote:I lived child labor and it taught me alot about values... think about that....HomerPenguin wrote:Since everybody remembers things they way they want to remember them, I'm not sure where the offense lies. I'm particularly not sure how it's more offensive than your suggestion that your high school history teachers deliberately failed to teach their students properly because they were all anti-Christian zealots, but to each his own I guess.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
As a child it was necessary to work for things I needed due to my families economic stature. I paid for my clothes for school, dental appointments/repairs and eye glasses etc.... It taught me the value of things and helped me realize that the world is not one big handout....HomerPenguin wrote:As soon as you explain to me what it means, I'll think about it.Ron` wrote:I lived child labor and it taught me alot about values... think about that....HomerPenguin wrote:Since everybody remembers things they way they want to remember them, I'm not sure where the offense lies. I'm particularly not sure how it's more offensive than your suggestion that your high school history teachers deliberately failed to teach their students properly because they were all anti-Christian zealots, but to each his own I guess.
Last edited by Ron` on Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
I guess. I wasn't really trying to create any ideological chasms, simply saying that, unlike apparently everybody else, I don't throw epithets like "Nazi" around for fun.Guinness wrote:Well, gee, that's awfully serendipitous, isn't it? I certainly don't disagree with you... however it creates an awfully convenient chasm between an ideology you espouse and Dick Cheney who you rightfully abhor, doesn't it?HomerPenguin wrote: I reserve terms like that for people like Dick Cheney, who is an unrestrained authoritarian without a particular ideology beyond that.
Besides, it seems no more or less serendipitous than the "right good, left bad" distinction you've set up for us.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
OK...and that applies to a discussion of how Christianity is taught in high school because...?Ron` wrote:As a child it was necessary to work for things I needed due to my families economic stature. I paid for my clothes for school, dental appointments/repairs and eye glasses etc.... It taught me the value of things and helped me realize that the world is not one big handout....HomerPenguin wrote:As soon as you explain to me what it means, I'll think about it.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
I'm still waiting to hear where "redistributing land to the poor" comes into the equation. Sounds like we were redistributing land from undesirables to the master race.Shyster wrote:Cite? I know from other sources (i.e. Hitler's Beneficiaries: Plunder, Racial War, and the Nazi Welfare State by Gotz Aly) where that land went, and “our needs” wasn’t anything a conservative would consider legitimate. Typically, it meant taking land from murdered Jews, Poles, and other minorities and handing it over to disaffected members of the Volk.HomerPenguin wrote:Who said anything about redistributing land to the poor? The tenet talks about land reform "suitable to our needs." In practice Nazi land policy resembled feudalism more than it did anything we'd recognize today.
I never said they were. Again, you're the one trying to pound the Nazis into a tight ideological box here, not me.Explain how they are right then. What about the other planks I cited? How are they right-wing?
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
They only allow facts to be added with a valid media link or whatever internet link they deem. Don't care if you were actually there, have the facts recorded in you government record, medals to show it etc... to end this diatribe "what evidence do you have".doublem wrote:Wiki does have links now.Ron` wrote:Amen... if you can't find a media link no matter how incredulous it can't be fact....PensFanInDC wrote:This is what my "wikipedia" post was about....
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
Rightly... er, correctly, I might add.HomerPenguin wrote: That works. It fits with how most libertarians seem to conceive of themselves: alone on their island of rugged virtue, surrounded by swarms of Pol Pot wannabes.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
Your kids were taught by their teachers to vote a certain way or to think certain things politically? Again, I won't argue that some teachers may espouse certain things in a classroom that don't pertain to their subject, but I'd say that's a very small minority. Most teachers will try to teach kids to think for themselves while teaching their subject matter.Ron` wrote:Look, my college age kids were indoctrinated in the same fashion, they voted for the saviour. Now they both realize what a mistake it was to believe what was sold to them. Not that the other choice was better necessarily, but a complete pack of lies....MWB wrote:I'd be interested to know if that was really what was said or if there was a context to it. I'm not saying that some teachers say dumb things, but sometimes kids go home and say something completely different than what was said by a teacher. Did your niece's parents question the teacher about this?PensFanInDC wrote:
Second, my niece was attending a PUBLIC and therefore STATE (read: govt) FUNDED school. She came home one day to tell us that she was taught that President Obama is our savior. Sounds like indoctrination to me.
I'm not saying that is mandated curriculum by the state, but it sure was taught at a school funded by them.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
OK, it seems people are getting hung up on labels. So let's clear the air, take this test (http://www.politicalcompass.org/test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and tell us what you are so I can better tell who my friends and enemies are ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
My results:
![Image](http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=1.62&soc=-0.31)
And here's where some people of history rate, not that there are 4 points and fascism is there along with right, left and anarchy:
![Image](http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
My results:
And here's where some people of history rate, not that there are 4 points and fascism is there along with right, left and anarchy:
![Image](http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif)
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
This is the quote homer that I was referencing. I don't have the patience of jobe or your apparent skills at quote editing to get the point accross. Child labor is not a bad thing, unless you are talking about chaining a kid to a loom. Thanks for pointing out my lack of quote skills and making me look like a fool. Typical elitism on your part imo though.HomerPenguin wrote:The Nazis were also against child labor and one of their 25 points reads "All citizens must have equal rights and obligations," which I guess makes me a Nazi because I agree with those things.
Last edited by Ron` on Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
Observed from a position of how the individual is respected within the social contract, what other way is there to distinguish it? More to the point, WHY is there any other way to distinguish it? Shall we observe the social contract from the position of a "group"? What is a group? A group is a construct with no real, concrete characteristics. A human being -- the most fundamental social construct that we can conceive -- cannot (by definition) be wholly respected as a member of a "group".HomerPenguin wrote:I guess. I wasn't really trying to create any ideological chasms, simply saying that, unlike apparently everybody else, I don't throw epithets like "Nazi" around for fun.Guinness wrote:Well, gee, that's awfully serendipitous, isn't it? I certainly don't disagree with you... however it creates an awfully convenient chasm between an ideology you espouse and Dick Cheney who you rightfully abhor, doesn't it?HomerPenguin wrote: I reserve terms like that for people like Dick Cheney, who is an unrestrained authoritarian without a particular ideology beyond that.
Besides, it seems no more or less serendipitous than the "right good, left bad" distinction you've set up for us.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
The questions asked in this quiz are awful...DelPen wrote:OK, it seems people are getting hung up on labels. So let's clear the air, take this test (http://www.politicalcompass.org/test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
stop whiningGuinness wrote:The questions asked in this quiz are awful...DelPen wrote:OK, it seems people are getting hung up on labels. So let's clear the air, take this test (http://www.politicalcompass.org/test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
Frankly YES and they freely admit it now as the nonsense rolls forward. One of which is a teacher too herself.....MWB wrote:Your kids were taught by their teachers to vote a certain way or to think certain things politically? Again, I won't argue that some teachers may espouse certain things in a classroom that don't pertain to their subject, but I'd say that's a very small minority. Most teachers will try to teach kids to think for themselves while teaching their subject matter.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
DelPen wrote:stop whiningGuinness wrote:The questions asked in this quiz are awful...DelPen wrote:OK, it seems people are getting hung up on labels. So let's clear the air, take this test (http://www.politicalcompass.org/test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
I'm not participating in this thread, but why not post results:
![Image](http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=0.25&soc=1.38)
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
All through their schooling? What were they told in elementary and middle school? I just find this baffling because I've never encountered it. I've heard about how some professors tend to push things certain ways in college, but not really before then.Ron` wrote:Frankly YES and they freely admit it now as the nonsense rolls forward. One of which is a teacher too herself.....MWB wrote:Your kids were taught by their teachers to vote a certain way or to think certain things politically? Again, I won't argue that some teachers may espouse certain things in a classroom that don't pertain to their subject, but I'd say that's a very small minority. Most teachers will try to teach kids to think for themselves while teaching their subject matter.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
The Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.26
Last edited by doublem on Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
MWB, you've just elucidated the fundamental flaw of collectivism... there is no, "teachers". There may be fundamental similarities between most teachers, but the fact remains that there is no such thing as, "teachers"; just as there is no such thing as "black people"; "white people"; "rich people"; "poor people"; etc. Any identification of such groups is justifiably insulting to the individual.MWB wrote: Your kids were taught by their teachers to vote a certain way or to think certain things politically? Again, I won't argue that some teachers may espouse certain things in a classroom that don't pertain to their subject, but I'd say that's a very small minority. Most teachers will try to teach kids to think for themselves while teaching their subject matter.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
I come from a long line of public educators including my offspring now. I fully understand the political system effects and it's implications on continued employment. Quit dodging the reality of public education, let alone the philosphical nonsense professed at the collegiate level.MWB wrote:All through their schooling? What were they told in elementary and middle school? I just find this baffling because I've never encountered it. I've heard about how some professors tend to push things certain ways in college, but not really before then.Ron` wrote:Frankly YES and they freely admit it now as the nonsense rolls forward. One of which is a teacher too herself.....MWB wrote:Your kids were taught by their teachers to vote a certain way or to think certain things politically? Again, I won't argue that some teachers may espouse certain things in a classroom that don't pertain to their subject, but I'd say that's a very small minority. Most teachers will try to teach kids to think for themselves while teaching their subject matter.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
I know from other sources that the transfer went from wealthy Jews and other undesirables to poor Germans and other members of the Volk. Nazi Germany operated a welfare state. I read more than Wikipedia.HomerPenguin wrote:I'm still waiting to hear where "redistributing land to the poor" comes into the equation. Sounds like we were redistributing land from undesirables to the master race.
So you don't know where they go, but you disagree with me that they belong largely to the political left? That sure seems to be what you are saying. How do you classify them, then? Or do you believe Nazism is ineffable?I never said they were. Again, you're the one trying to pound the Nazis into a tight ideological box here, not me.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
right click the image, select properties and past the link into an image tag:doublem wrote:http://www.politicalcompass.org/printab ... &soc=-6.26
That is mine. How do you get the image to come up? Oh well.
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Re: Healthcare Reform Act of 2009
Looks like doublem is hangin' in the libertarian bubble...DelPen wrote:right click the image, select properties and past the link into an image tag:doublem wrote:http://www.politicalcompass.org/printab ... &soc=-6.26
That is mine. How do you get the image to come up? Oh well.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)