What do you think the Pens will do with Jake by the trade deadline

[FLPensFan]

Friedman was on NHL network tonight and talked about the Pens potential plans for the deadline.

He said he expects them to go through a “soft rebuild” over the next couple of years and recoup assets and build. Said Dubas will talk with Jake’s agent during the break and go from there.

He also said we will not be buyers that won’t be trading first, second round picks or our top prospects.

Sounds like Dubas wants to know what direction Jake is going before the deadline so he can make a decision on a trade.

Have to wonder if Dubas is going to have a similar discussion with other vets.

Real curious to see where this goes….

I guess if they trade Jake and acquire a 1st round pick as part of the deal, they could flip that pick for some more immediate help, rather than hope a late 1st round pick turns into an average player in 3 to 4 years. Think of a pending UFA that could help them now, and maybe could be-resigned using the cap money that Guentzel leaves behind. Any ideas ??

I still think something around Guentzel for Kuzmenko, a 1st, and Lekkerimaki is the way to go. Then see if we can flip Kuzmenko for something that helps us in the now.

The top 5 point producing UFAs on non-playoff teams:

1. Sean Monahan, 13 goals, 35 points...
2. Vlad Tarasenko, 13 goals, 32 points...
3. Elias Lindholm, 9 goals, 32 points...
4. Adam Henrique, 15 goals, 32 points...
5. Jordan Eberle, 9 goals, 28 points...

If they go to UFA, I'd expect a stronger contender is going to outbid us for Tarasenko or Lindholm. I wouldn't mind Monahan if we had a stronger team. Henrique and Eberle are mid-30s...not what we need.

Kuzmenko is listed at #7 on Athletic trade board, Jake at #10. If you could make that deal with Vancouver, then flip a 50% retained Kuzmenko to a strong playoff contender for a 1st, 2nd, roster player (cap reasons) and a high prospect (yes, that's more than Jake, but that's also factoring in a big cost to retain 50% for this year and next)...Penguins would have a really good jump on a retool.

[FLPensFan]

So, here are two trade ideas I have come up with, based upon my last post. The first part of the trade in both cases is Guentzel to Vancouver for Kuzmenko, a 1st, and Lekkerimaki. The 2nd part involves flipping Kuzmenko for more assets.

1) Kuzmenko to Carolina for Michael Bunting and a 2023 2nd (better of PHI and CAR). There were rumors Dubas wanted to acquire Bunting in Pittsburgh. He's struggled a bit in Carolina. He has 2 years left on his deal after this season, at a reasonable 4.5M cap hit.

2) Kuzmenko and Acciari to Rangers for Filip Chytil and Barclay Goodrow. Rangers hate to give up Chytil, but, he's out for the season with an injury. Getting the scoring potential of Kuzmenko is going to cost a meaningful asset. Acciari can step in and add some 3rd line center depth. Goodrow has struggled mightily this year with only 1 goal, and he's signed for 3 more seasons. So again, being able to dump his salary on someone for 3 more years (3.6M AAV) is going to cost a good asset like Chytil.

Penguins move Jake and Acciari out (plus Kuzmenko), and in return receive a 1st (VAN), a 2nd (likely PHI), Lekkerimaki, Bunting, and Chytil. That gives this team a 24 year old center in the NHL now, who might be able to take over 2nd line center duties (had 22 goals, 45 points last year), and a 19 year old winger with a very good shot, he may be 2-3 years away. And Bunting.

[Pens4Life]

Yes, but also horrible contract in Goodrow, way to expensive.. Thats a big contract for way to many years down the road.

[KG]

I think Nashville is a team to look out for with Jake. Trotz is looking to be aggressive and said they will be very active at the deadline. Maybe they are a team that would overpay. I could see Nashville being a good spot to land for Jake, no state tax.

[Pitts]

I hope I am wrong, but I really feel like they are not going to do anything with Jake.

[FLPensFan]

I hope I am wrong, but I really feel like they are not going to do anything with Jake.

Oh, I 100% have the feeling that they make the wrong decision and don't do anything with Jake. When you hear this team talk about how they still think they have a strong chance to contend for a Cup, that's all I need to hear.

[FLPensFan]

Yes, but also horrible contract in Goodrow, way to expensive.. Thats a big contract for way to many years down the road.

Part of the price of doing business, especially to get a good young piece like Chytil.

Look at it this way: Jake is 6M today, and could be 10-11M next year. Acciari is 2M, and 2M for 2 more years. 8M going out.

Chytil is 4.4M for 3 more years after this season, but he's on LTIR rest of the season.
Goodrow is 3.6M for 3 more years after this season.
Bunting is 4.5M for 2 more years.

That's 12.5M coming in, but with Chytil on LTIR, that's only 8.1M against this year's cap. So it fits. So for the cost of Jake and Acciari, you get Bunting, Chytil, and Goodrow....plus a young Lekkerimaki, a 1st and a 2nd. That would be a huge win if Dubas pulled off something like that. Goodrow will become the new Jeff Carter, but he if he rebounds to his normal levels of production, it's not a horrible contract. Next season:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Puustinen/DOC
Poulin-Chytil-Puljujarvi
X-Eller-X

The youth available for next year, moving Smith over the summer, and pushing Eller down to 4C would greatly improve this team. We'd add 4-5 guys up front who are 25 and under in DOC, Poulin, Puljujarvi, Puustinen, and Chytil. That's the type of youth infusion this team needs to start a retool.

[KG]

I hope I am wrong, but I really feel like they are not going to do anything with Jake.

Oh, I 100% have the feeling that they make the wrong decision and don't do anything with Jake. When you hear this team talk about how they still think they have a strong chance to contend for a Cup, that's all I need to hear.

Also starting to feel like Sully will be here for the "soft re-build"...

[dark_forces]

Yes, but also horrible contract in Goodrow, way to expensive.. Thats a big contract for way to many years down the road.

Part of the price of doing business, especially to get a good young piece like Chytil.

Look at it this way: Jake is 6M today, and could be 10-11M next year. Acciari is 2M, and 2M for 2 more years. 8M going out.

Chytil is 4.4M for 3 more years after this season, but he's on LTIR rest of the season.
Goodrow is 3.6M for 3 more years after this season.
Bunting is 4.5M for 2 more years.

That's 12.5M coming in, but with Chytil on LTIR, that's only 8.1M against this year's cap. So it fits. So for the cost of Jake and Acciari, you get Bunting, Chytil, and Goodrow....plus a young Lekkerimaki, a 1st and a 2nd. That would be a huge win if Dubas pulled off something like that. Goodrow will become the new Jeff Carter, but he if he rebounds to his normal levels of production, it's not a horrible contract. Next season:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Puustinen/DOC
Poulin-Chytil-Puljujarvi
X-Eller-X

The youth available for next year, moving Smith over the summer, and pushing Eller down to 4C would greatly improve this team. We'd add 4-5 guys up front who are 25 and under in DOC, Poulin, Puljujarvi, Puustinen, and Chytil. That's the type of youth infusion this team needs to start a retool.

I would be on board with these moves. I also think the dressing room would be more accepting of a Jake trade if it brought back a return that created more depth and lineup flexibility. Getting a player like Lekkerimaki, who looks to be a legit prospect, would give us something we haven't had in a very long time.

[FLPensFan]

So, reading Canucks article on the Athletic today, they list Lekkerimaki as an untouchable (along with RHD Tom Willander). Said there's no way they'd move either of these guys for a rental. They listed Konecny (who has term after this year) as one possibility where they could include one of those guys.

They also had Garland in their untouchable category, saying he has turned things around and been a major contributor to the success of the 3rd line.

2024 1st, Kuzmenko, and Hoglander/Raty (who writers considered 3rd best VAN prospect) sounds more likely for Guentzel, which doesn't make me jump at the trade as much.

[Antonio]

They won't move him. They'll keep him and he'll leave in the off season because they seem to think this team can compete, despite pretty much every single non homer Pittsburgh hockey figure clearly seeing the opposite it true. Jake and his camp have made it pretty damn clear to me from the statements that he has every intention to get PAID and seems to have zero interest in benefiting the organization over himself. Dragging it out with uncertainty and delays hurts the organization and puts them at serious risk of losing leverage and the chance to sell high. Vancouver is a great idea given the propensity to over pay if they want him but I don't see it happening. Prospects, draft picks roster players... all the same with our track record of bringing in talent.

Boy am I foggy this morning. Getting all kinds of stuff confused. I meant to say, Granlund is an interesting case for me... leaves his previous team, comes here... sucks then goes to SJC and is a top performer (29p in 38g???). Christ, the guy is putting up .763ppg to Malkin's .869. He represents a good example of players being acquired and not being worth what we paid and it seeming to not be their fault. One of the biggest examples in recent years of a troubling trend. It begs the question of, what is the real value of acquiring talent if we can't have any realistic expectation they will perform here?

I have zero confidence we bring over performing players and they will thrive. Players seem to come here to die more often than excel (sadly this used to seem to be the reverse). Not that it hasn't happened, because we have had a few succeed, but it seems a solid 3-4 to 1 at least ratio of falling apart when coming here compared to succeeding. Kind of diminishes for me the interest in moving Jake until the regime behind the bench is completely and totally flushed clean...no in house promotions, no retaining this guy or that... a brand new set of eyes and ideas. Until that happens there is no point to try and start rebuilding. If you're keeping Sullivan, then keep Jake and let Sid be happy. You've already pandered endlessly to the stars for years, letting them have everything their way... coach, roster etc so why stop now? I LOVE Sid and I LOVED Mario...but I don't think players should run the team. It wasn't good for the organization then and it hasn't been now. It's like parenting... you shouldn't HATE the coach, but he's there to coach not be your friend. It's a business... one funded by tons of hard working non millionaires spending their hard earned money for entertainment and success, not to fund a millionaires friendship society. Moving Jake but keeping Sullivan improves nothing, so just sign him to his 15 year 12m full NMC and everyone can be happy. Well, everyone but the fans but who gives a **** about them anymore.

[KG]

So, reading Canucks article on the Athletic today, they list Lekkerimaki as an untouchable (along with RHD Tom Willander). Said there's no way they'd move either of these guys for a rental. They listed Konecny (who has term after this year) as one possibility where they could include one of those guys.

They also had Garland in their untouchable category, saying he has turned things around and been a major contributor to the success of the 3rd line.

2024 1st, Kuzmenko, and Hoglander/Raty (who writers considered 3rd best VAN prospect) sounds more likely for Guentzel, which doesn't make me jump at the trade as much.

Hopefully GMKD can get a good bidding war with several contenders interested. Especially if we retain 50% salary, Jake will be a hot commodity. Not so sure we can get a teams #1 prospect though, unless Jake agrees to an extension.

Hoglander and Raty would be good gets, but neither will blow you over. Good thing is Hoglander is a solid contributor on a cheap contract. If we can get Hoglander, Raty and 1st round pick that, to me anyway, is a fair return for a UFA rental in Jake. Hoping other teams come hard after him to up the ante though.

[BigMcK]

Watched a couple interviews yesterday with Crosby and Letang. Both said pretty much the same thing, in that all the Penguins need to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Both used Florida as proof. Scratched, clawed their way in and got hot at the right time.

True, it's possible. My fear is that GMKD drinks the Kool-Aid and Jake is still on the roster when this crazy dream turns to nightmare either failing to get to the Playoffs, or another first round exit.

[dark_forces]

Watched a couple interviews yesterday with Crosby and Letang. Both said pretty much the same thing, in that all the Penguins need to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Both used Florida as proof. Scratched, clawed their way in and got hot at the right time.

True, it's possible. My fear is that GMKD drinks the Kool-Aid and Jake is still on the roster when this crazy dream turns to nightmare either failing to get to the Playoffs, or another first round exit.

This kind of thinking scares me. Yeah, they can cite a similar scenario with Florida last year, BUT Florida is younger, has more depth, and is built more like a traditional, physical, grind-it-out type of playoff team. I don't see the same scenario playing out here. If they somehow managed to scrape and claw their way in, I don't see them beating another team 4 out of 7 games. I just don't unless the PP somehow goes on a legit run. That's really the only way.

[largegarlic]

Watched a couple interviews yesterday with Crosby and Letang. Both said pretty much the same thing, in that all the Penguins need to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Both used Florida as proof. Scratched, clawed their way in and got hot at the right time.

True, it's possible. My fear is that GMKD drinks the Kool-Aid and Jake is still on the roster when this crazy dream turns to nightmare either failing to get to the Playoffs, or another first round exit.

This kind of thinking scares me. Yeah, they can cite a similar scenario with Florida last year, BUT Florida is younger, has more depth, and is built more like a traditional, physical, grind-it-out type of playoff team. I don't see the same scenario playing out here. If they somehow managed to scrape and claw their way in, I don't see them beating another team 4 out of 7 games. I just don't unless the PP somehow goes on a legit run. That's really the only way.

Yeah, I mentioned this last year with the Florida example too for the "the Pens just need to get in and anything can happen" crowd. Florida was a very good team in 21-22. Then they had a weirdly bad regular season in 22-23, followed by a great playoff run. Now in 23-24, they're back to being a very good regular season team as well. They're more like the 15-16 Pens who were coming off a bad year but still had a very good core group, all in their primes, than this Pens team that has been trending down for a few seasons now.

[KG]

Watched a couple interviews yesterday with Crosby and Letang. Both said pretty much the same thing, in that all the Penguins need to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Both used Florida as proof. Scratched, clawed their way in and got hot at the right time.

True, it's possible. My fear is that GMKD drinks the Kool-Aid and Jake is still on the roster when this crazy dream turns to nightmare either failing to get to the Playoffs, or another first round exit.

This kind of thinking scares me. Yeah, they can cite a similar scenario with Florida last year, BUT Florida is younger, has more depth, and is built more like a traditional, physical, grind-it-out type of playoff team. I don't see the same scenario playing out here. If they somehow managed to scrape and claw their way in, I don't see them beating another team 4 out of 7 games. I just don't unless the PP somehow goes on a legit run. That's really the only way.

Yeah comparing this Pens team to last years Florida team is fools-gold. Florida won the Presidents trophy the prior year. They were learning a new system from a new coach and it took them a while to adjust.

This Pens team has been doing the same thing that hasn't worked for many years. Maybe this is the year? Don't fall for it KD! do the right thing and stock the team up so you can do a quick re-tool.

I disagree with the mindset that if you trade Jake then you should just tear it down to the studs. If we can get a solid top 6 forward, 1st round pick and top prospect, we can either use some of those assets to trade for Jake's replacement, or sign someone in UFA. Jake isn't the be all end all here.

[FLPensFan]

Watched a couple interviews yesterday with Crosby and Letang. Both said pretty much the same thing, in that all the Penguins need to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Both used Florida as proof. Scratched, clawed their way in and got hot at the right time.

True, it's possible. My fear is that GMKD drinks the Kool-Aid and Jake is still on the roster when this crazy dream turns to nightmare either failing to get to the Playoffs, or another first round exit.

This kind of thinking scares me. Yeah, they can cite a similar scenario with Florida last year, BUT Florida is younger, has more depth, and is built more like a traditional, physical, grind-it-out type of playoff team. I don't see the same scenario playing out here. If they somehow managed to scrape and claw their way in, I don't see them beating another team 4 out of 7 games. I just don't unless the PP somehow goes on a legit run. That's really the only way.

Yeah, I mentioned this last year with the Florida example too for the "the Pens just need to get in and anything can happen" crowd. Florida was a very good team in 21-22. Then they had a weirdly bad regular season in 22-23, followed by a great playoff run. Now in 23-24, they're back to being a very good regular season team as well. They're more like the 15-16 Pens who were coming off a bad year but still had a very good core group, all in their primes, than this Pens team that has been trending down for a few seasons now.

I think everyone here has touched on the issues...this is not a young team. For the most part, they are a perimeter team. They are not built for playoff battles. They aren't built to beat the young, high speed teams. And more importantly to me, outside of maybe one week this season and one week last season...they have looked like anything but a playoff team for 80% of the past two seasons.

An organization full of dreams and virtual reality. The core missed their prime chance over the last 5 years to win another Cup. I'd be absolutely floored if this core could win another. The time has passed, and now they are continually chasing it.

[Cow_Master66]

Watched a couple interviews yesterday with Crosby and Letang. Both said pretty much the same thing, in that all the Penguins need to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Both used Florida as proof. Scratched, clawed their way in and got hot at the right time.

True, it's possible. My fear is that GMKD drinks the Kool-Aid and Jake is still on the roster when this crazy dream turns to nightmare either failing to get to the Playoffs, or another first round exit.

This kind of thinking scares me. Yeah, they can cite a similar scenario with Florida last year, BUT Florida is younger, has more depth, and is built more like a traditional, physical, grind-it-out type of playoff team. I don't see the same scenario playing out here. If they somehow managed to scrape and claw their way in, I don't see them beating another team 4 out of 7 games. I just don't unless the PP somehow goes on a legit run. That's really the only way.

Yeah comparing this Pens team to last years Florida team is fools-gold. Florida won the Presidents trophy the prior year. They were learning a new system from a new coach and it took them a while to adjust.

This Pens team has been doing the same thing that hasn't worked for many years. Maybe this is the year? Don't fall for it KD! do the right thing and stock the team up so you can do a quick re-tool.

I disagree with the mindset that if you trade Jake then you should just tear it down to the studs. If we can get a solid top 6 forward, 1st round pick and top prospect, we can either use some of those assets to trade for Jake's replacement, or sign someone in UFA. Jake isn't the be all end all here.

Maybe it's just me, and I know it's been floated a few times here, but I don't see Guentzel as a rental pulling that kind of return. Which playoff team is giving up a top 6 guy for a top 6 guy for a few weeks and including 2 other solid assets as well? Would love to be wrong (and would love to see them actually pull the trigger).

[pens_CT]

Watched a couple interviews yesterday with Crosby and Letang. Both said pretty much the same thing, in that all the Penguins need to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Both used Florida as proof. Scratched, clawed their way in and got hot at the right time.

True, it's possible. My fear is that GMKD drinks the Kool-Aid and Jake is still on the roster when this crazy dream turns to nightmare either failing to get to the Playoffs, or another first round exit.

This kind of thinking scares me. Yeah, they can cite a similar scenario with Florida last year, BUT Florida is younger, has more depth, and is built more like a traditional, physical, grind-it-out type of playoff team. I don't see the same scenario playing out here. If they somehow managed to scrape and claw their way in, I don't see them beating another team 4 out of 7 games. I just don't unless the PP somehow goes on a legit run. That's really the only way.

Yeah comparing this Pens team to last years Florida team is fools-gold. Florida won the Presidents trophy the prior year. They were learning a new system from a new coach and it took them a while to adjust.

This Pens team has been doing the same thing that hasn't worked for many years. Maybe this is the year? Don't fall for it KD! do the right thing and stock the team up so you can do a quick re-tool.

I disagree with the mindset that if you trade Jake then you should just tear it down to the studs. If we can get a solid top 6 forward, 1st round pick and top prospect, we can either use some of those assets to trade for Jake's replacement, or sign someone in UFA. Jake isn't the be all end all here.

Maybe it's just me, and I know it's been floated a few times here, but I don't see Guentzel as a rental pulling that kind of return. Which playoff team is giving up a top 6 guy for a top 6 guy for a few weeks and including 2 other solid assets as well? Would love to be wrong (and would love to see them actually pull the trigger).

If a team views him strictly as a rental, then you will get less. Probably a 1st and a prospect. If some team wants to acquire and then sign him (Vancouver comes to mind) then you might get a third piece. I agree any player they acquire off another NHL roster isn't going to be top six material. He's probably being added to balance out the money more than anything.

[FLPensFan]

Watched a couple interviews yesterday with Crosby and Letang. Both said pretty much the same thing, in that all the Penguins need to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Both used Florida as proof. Scratched, clawed their way in and got hot at the right time.

True, it's possible. My fear is that GMKD drinks the Kool-Aid and Jake is still on the roster when this crazy dream turns to nightmare either failing to get to the Playoffs, or another first round exit.

This kind of thinking scares me. Yeah, they can cite a similar scenario with Florida last year, BUT Florida is younger, has more depth, and is built more like a traditional, physical, grind-it-out type of playoff team. I don't see the same scenario playing out here. If they somehow managed to scrape and claw their way in, I don't see them beating another team 4 out of 7 games. I just don't unless the PP somehow goes on a legit run. That's really the only way.

Yeah comparing this Pens team to last years Florida team is fools-gold. Florida won the Presidents trophy the prior year. They were learning a new system from a new coach and it took them a while to adjust.

This Pens team has been doing the same thing that hasn't worked for many years. Maybe this is the year? Don't fall for it KD! do the right thing and stock the team up so you can do a quick re-tool.

I disagree with the mindset that if you trade Jake then you should just tear it down to the studs. If we can get a solid top 6 forward, 1st round pick and top prospect, we can either use some of those assets to trade for Jake's replacement, or sign someone in UFA. Jake isn't the be all end all here.

Maybe it's just me, and I know it's been floated a few times here, but I don't see Guentzel as a rental pulling that kind of return. Which playoff team is giving up a top 6 guy for a top 6 guy for a few weeks and including 2 other solid assets as well? Would love to be wrong (and would love to see them actually pull the trigger).

If a team views him strictly as a rental, then you will get less. Probably a 1st and a prospect. If some team wants to acquire and then sign him (Vancouver comes to mind) then you might get a third piece. I agree any player they acquire off another NHL roster isn't going to be top six material. He's probably being added to balance out the money more than anything.

Vancouver or Carolina are probably one of the only two teams I can see giving us a top 6 forward in return, and the reasons in both cases are A) to make the cap work and B) because said top 6 forward hasn't worked out.

There have been some rumors Carolina isn't thrilled with how Bunting has played for them so far, so he would be Carolina player I'm speaking about. It's well documented the drop-off in Kuzmenko's play this year, and that the team could move him.

In those 2 cases, I think both teams would feel like getting Guentzel is an upgrade. Otherwise, unless there is another similar player situation I'm not thinking of, contending teams don't give up major pieces of their roster at the trade deadline.

[KG]

If the immortal Ben Chairot was able to net a first round pick, prospect etc. then Jake is going to get a real solid return IMO.

If we even make him available….

[Dynasty1970]

Reports are that Jake has Rejected GMKD offer already. Stop wasting your time negotiating with him. Go out and get a couple contenders to bid against each other. Go get a couple bubble teams that have some prospects. Go make a smart move for a change! Keeping him and breaking the bank won't improve this team. This is the same team as last year and the year before and the year before that......just a year older and more used to losing.

[Ericf]

Reports are that Jake has Rejected GMKD offer already. Stop wasting your time negotiating with him. Go out and get a couple contenders to bid against each other. Go get a couple bubble teams that have some prospects. Go make a smart move for a change! Keeping him and breaking the bank won't improve this team. This is the same team as last year and the year before and the year before that......just a year older and more used to losing.

Yeah, heard this rumor previously.

[KG]

Reports are that Jake has Rejected GMKD offer already. Stop wasting your time negotiating with him. Go out and get a couple contenders to bid against each other. Go get a couple bubble teams that have some prospects. Go make a smart move for a change! Keeping him and breaking the bank won't improve this team. This is the same team as last year and the year before and the year before that......just a year older and more used to losing.

Yeah, heard this rumor previously.

Maybe 6 x $9mill AAV gets it done? Either way, if these guys are right, it's good KD is negotiating with Jake's agent now. Hammer it out either way.

[thehockeyguru]

After seeing that I'm now firmly in the trade Guentzel camp