LGP Political Discussion Thread

[MWB]

No, not 21st century medicine, a 300 million population, and 46 million people without coverage.

I meant to also quote your following sentence, which said they didn't even know what health care was. My reply was in reference to that.

Regardless of your reply, don't tell us that it's not in the Constitution because they didn't even know what it was. Apparently, they did not look at is as an entitlement, either.

Health care today is a completely different animal than health care 200 years ago, mainly because of insurance companies.

[dagny]

What have "people" done to solve this problem so far? I'm not saying that this current health care bill is the way to go, but what is a solution? Most people agree that there are changes that need to be made, but very few offer viable solutions.

THIS is what we, and our gov't, should actually be investing our time investigating, rather than the gov't rushing through, and making our decisions for us.

[dagny]

No, not 21st century medicine, a 300 million population, and 46 million people without coverage.

I meant to also quote your following sentence, which said they didn't even know what health care was. My reply was in reference to that.

Regardless of your reply, don't tell us that it's not in the Constitution because they didn't even know what it was. Apparently, they did not look at is as an entitlement, either.

Health care today is a completely different animal than health care 200 years ago, mainly because of insurance companies.

http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB ... 95#p998795" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[doublem]

What have "people" done to solve this problem so far? I'm not saying that this current health care bill is the way to go, but what is a solution? Most people agree that there are changes that need to be made, but very few offer viable solutions.

THIS is what we, and our gov't, should actually be investing our time investigating, rather than the gov't rushing through, and making our decisions for us.

I would like to try an experiment where we had a completely free market and see how it would turn out. Since it has yet to be tried yet.

[MWB]

The problem is, the elimination of health care insurance companies seems to be an impossibility. How many jobs would it eliminate?

[doublem]

The problem is, the elimination of health care insurance companies seems to be an impossibility. How many jobs would it eliminate?

I'm only half serious, I don't think it could ever be done.

[HomerPenguin]

The problem is, the elimination of health care insurance companies seems to be an impossibility.

Nor is it particularly "free market," since the freedom of a group of people to form a collective in order to pool resources and distribute risk is part of a free market. If insurance companies still functioned to pool resources and distribute risk, instead of what they do now, which is collecting resources and not paying out to cover risk, we probably wouldn't be having this debate.

[MWB]

The problem is, the elimination of health care insurance companies seems to be an impossibility.

Nor is it particularly "free market," since the freedom of a group of people to form a collective in order to pool resources and distribute risk is part of a free market. If insurance companies still functioned to pool resources and distribute risk, instead of what they do now, which is collecting resources and not paying out to cover risk, we probably wouldn't be having this debate.

My post was in response to dagny's link. I'm not trying to say that the elimination of insurance companies is free market.

[Guinness]

I would like to try an experiment where we had a completely free market and see how it would turn out. Since it has yet to be tried yet.

Good idea! Also, it's nice to see you acknowledge that we haven't been operating under the evil free market you're always telling us is the cause of all of our problems.

[KG]

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Great Communicator via 1961....this liberal agenda has been going on for a long time.....

[HomerPenguin]

The Great Communicator via 1961....this liberal agenda has been going on for a long time.....

Which liberal agenda? The one that drastically increases the size of government, mushrooms deficits and debts, engages in foreign military excursions, and expands massive and destructive programs that do nothing but waste money and criminalize huge numbers of citizens for things that ought not be crimes while taking a supposedly free nation in the direction of becoming a police state?

Yeah, that Reagan--what a dirty lib.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory12.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Guinness]

The Great Communicator via 1961....this liberal agenda has been going on for a long time.....

Which liberal agenda? The one that drastically increases the size of government, mushrooms deficits and debts, engages in foreign military excursions, and expands massive and destructive programs that do nothing but waste money and criminalize huge numbers of citizens for things that ought not be crimes while taking a supposedly free nation in the direction of becoming a police state?

Yeah, that Reagan--what a dirty lib.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory12.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ExPatriatePen]

ExPat, you are a businessman. We both agree health care has to be reformed. Is a national health care plan business wise considering that it will be ultimately be passed down to businesses and the individual taxpayer? Can money be saved by just purely doing this? I am of the opinion that it will continue to spiral and the problems associated with it will not be addressed. Let alone we will magically just provide it for everyone at a savings...

Ron I think we agree. I haven't had time to read through the entire thread but premium health care insurance is a privilege, not a right.

In American society today, no one is turned away for basic healthcare. If you have a broken arm or a heart attack the emergency room will treat/admit you. The "left" seems to love the phrase "x number of Americans go without health care" when in reality it's "x number of Americans are without Healthcare Insurance"

[ExPatriatePen]

The Great Communicator via 1961....this liberal agenda has been going on for a long time.....

Which liberal agenda? The one that drastically increases the size of government, mushrooms deficits and debts, engages in foreign military excursions, and expands massive and destructive programs that do nothing but waste money and criminalize huge numbers of citizens for things that ought not be crimes while taking a supposedly free nation in the direction of becoming a police state?

Yeah, that Reagan--what a dirty lib.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory12.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I know you are but what am I?"

Aren't you the same guy who bristles every time the Obama administration is compared to the Carter administration?

[ExPatriatePen]

No, not 21st century medicine, a 300 million population, and 46 million people without coverage.

I meant to also quote your following sentence, which said they didn't even know what health care was. My reply was in reference to that.

Regardless of your reply, don't tell us that it's not in the Constitution because they didn't even know what it was. Apparently, they did not look at is as an entitlement, either.

Health care today is a completely different animal than health care 200 years ago, mainly because of insurance companies.

Huh? I think the cost of modern technology has more to do with it than the existence of Insurance companies.

200 years ago there wasn't "Open Heart Surgery" nor was there an expectation that medical science could extend the life of a person through heroic measures.

[bhaw]

ExPat, you are a businessman. We both agree health care has to be reformed. Is a national health care plan business wise considering that it will be ultimately be passed down to businesses and the individual taxpayer? Can money be saved by just purely doing this? I am of the opinion that it will continue to spiral and the problems associated with it will not be addressed. Let alone we will magically just provide it for everyone at a savings...

Ron I think we agree. I haven't had time to read through the entire thread but premium health care insurance is a privilege, not a right.

In American society today, no one is turned away for basic healthcare. If you have a broken arm or a heart attack the emergency room will treat/admit you. The "left" seems to love the phrase "x number of Americans go without health care" when in reality it's "x number of Americans are without Healthcare Insurance"

I agree 100% with you guys.

If everyone is entitled to health insurance, why do we even need an insurance system in place?

[eddysnake]

If everyone is entitled to health insurance, why do we even need an insurance system in place?

Rather than everyone yelling at each other, that is the question that should be asked at all these town hall meetings (maybe it has, I've been too busy reading this thread...)

[HomerPenguin]

In American society today, no one is turned away for basic healthcare. If you have a broken arm or a heart attack the emergency room will treat/admit you.

What does the ER give you for, say, lung cancer? Or is treatment for cancer a privilege?

[bhaw]

In American society today, no one is turned away for basic healthcare. If you have a broken arm or a heart attack the emergency room will treat/admit you.

What does the ER give you for, say, lung cancer? Or is treatment for cancer a privilege?

frankly, yes.

[HomerPenguin]

In American society today, no one is turned away for basic healthcare. If you have a broken arm or a heart attack the emergency room will treat/admit you.

What does the ER give you for, say, lung cancer? Or is treatment for cancer a privilege?

frankly, yes.

I applaud you for your honesty.

[MWB]

Health care today is a completely different animal than health care 200 years ago, mainly because of insurance companies.

Huh? I think the cost of modern technology has more to do with it than the existence of Insurance companies.

200 years ago there wasn't "Open Heart Surgery" nor was there an expectation that medical science could extend the life of a person through heroic measures.

The bill for my last physical was $496. The insurance company agreed to pay $275 of that. The extra cost wasn't passed on to me or anyone else, so it would seem that the doctor charges an amount knowing full well that insurance will only agree to pay a fraction of that amount. BTW, I didn't have open heart surgery or any other amazing procedure during this exam.

Every medical bill I get looks like this. Doctor charges a certain amount. Insurance company agree to pay part of it. Done deal. So is the initial bill presented by the doctor a fair cost or is what the insurance company paid fair? There certainly is a discrepancy somewhere.

[KG]

Health care today is a completely different animal than health care 200 years ago, mainly because of insurance companies.

Huh? I think the cost of modern technology has more to do with it than the existence of Insurance companies.

200 years ago there wasn't "Open Heart Surgery" nor was there an expectation that medical science could extend the life of a person through heroic measures.

The bill for my last physical was $496. The insurance company agreed to pay $275 of that. The extra cost wasn't passed on to me or anyone else, so it would seem that the doctor charges an amount knowing full well that insurance will only agree to pay a fraction of that amount. BTW, I didn't have open heart surgery or any other amazing procedure during this exam.

Every medical bill I get looks like this. Doctor charges a certain amount. Insurance company agree to pay part of it. Done deal. So is the initial bill presented by the doctor a fair cost or is what the insurance company paid fair? There certainly is a discrepancy somewhere.

It's all a scam...The doctors no how much they can charge without the insurance company opening their eyes, and the insurance company knows they will only pay to a certain point, and both the doctor and the insurance company know that the customer isn't going to pay the difference

[HomerPenguin]

Aren't you the same guy who bristles every time the Obama administration is compared to the Carter administration?

Am I? I thought I was the guy who couldn't believe people still have PTSD over a presidency that ended 30 years ago.

[MWB]

It's all a scam...The doctors no how much they can charge without the insurance company opening their eyes, and the insurance company knows they will only pay to a certain point, and both the doctor and the insurance company know that the customer isn't going to pay the difference

Exactly. So if there weren't insurance companies my guess is the overall cost structure of health care would look dramatically different.

[GaryRissling]

The problem really is that we have too much insurance, not too little. I would be willing to bet that if the US abolished employer coverage, and we all had to purchase our own insurance directly from the insurer (like any other insurance policy), we would see competition increase and medical costs plummet. There would be more variety in terms of available policies as well.

BTW, when Obama talks about people having the ability to stay on whatever coverage they want under his plan, I think a lot of folks don't realize that, in most cases, it's our employers who actually decide what coverage we have. If employers are strongly encouraged to move away from the private option, most of us really won't have a choice.