LGP Political Discussion Thread

[MWB]

Got the below in my work email. Not sure how true any of it is.

IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ TO THE END

The author of this part of the bill, former senator and tax evader, Tom
Daschle
was credited today by Bloomberg with the following statement.
Bloomberg: Daschle says "health-care reform will not be pain free.
Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with
age instead of treating them."

Poor use of quotes here, as the only thing Daschle actually said was, "Health-care reform will not be pain free." The rest of the quote kind of mish-mashes various other things he has said.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... accept-ra/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PensFanInDC]

as much as I want to agree with that email, he quoted Daschle incorrectly..

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... zfDxfbwhzs

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

only 'will not be pain free.' is in quotes.

EDIT: MWB beat me to it!

[pittsoccer33]

all of the stuff there about the actual bill is true. the only thing I'm not sure of is if Tom Daschle had anything to do with this current version of it beyond ideas from his 2008 book.

here is the actual house draft that henry waxman (the man who chairs the committie that wrote it) has admitted to not being familiar with:

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/hrdraft.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it is easier to read than the one on the LOC's website

[MWB]

Got the below in my work email. Not sure how true any of it is.

Obama wants to have our healthcare like Canada 's and England 's. In England
anyone over 59 cannot receive heart repairs or stents or bypass because it
is
not covered as it is too expensive and not needed. If Obama's plans in other
areas don't scare you, this one should.

Also not accurate.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/i ... _than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MWB]

Got the below in my work email. Not sure how true any of it is.

IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ TO THE END

Before you read below, just some random thoughts. Page 16 of the bill
contains the information that current insurance companies can no longer add
people to their plans. So if you change jobs or the cost goes up on your
current plan, you have no choice except to go to the government plan. All
the young people today will be on the government plan. I can easily see my
current provider throwing in the towel. Not being able to add new clients
will not grow the company. Will they continue coverage until the last client
dies off? I think not. So Obama and friends are telling the truth that you
can keep your coverage, knowing full well your days are numbered. At what
point does the lie begin?

Also does not appear to be 100% accurate, although this explanation is from a blog. However, it does make sense.

http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2009/07 ... legal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PensFanInDC]

This might be a good time to reiderate that we are not attacking tluke but the author of the email.

[MWB]

This might be a good time to reiderate that we are not attacking tluke but the author of the email.

Correct, I'm certainly not attacking anyone. That's why I'm also quoting the part where he writes that he's not sure how true any of it is in his post.

[tluke53]

That's part of why I posted it here. I figured some or all of it was not true.

[doublem]

Rather than give the guy a million bucks and have him go on his way, why don't we show real compaission and have doublem take the guy into his house for the rest of his life. doublem can take care of him and his bills, and the guatamalan can receive real compassion and live out the rest of his days in a nice comfy home.

Right, like someone getting Medicare is really comparable to having them in someone's home. Do you realize the amount of tax dollars you are paying is like .001% for this guy. This shouldn't be an illegal immigrant issue, it is a human rights issue.

[whgnailer10]

Rather than give the guy a million bucks and have him go on his way, why don't we show real compaission and have doublem take the guy into his house for the rest of his life. doublem can take care of him and his bills, and the guatamalan can receive real compassion and live out the rest of his days in a nice comfy home.

Right, like someone getting Medicare is really comparable to having them in someone's home. Do you realize the amount of tax dollars you are paying is like .001% for this guy. This shouldn't be an illegal immigrant issue, it is a human rights issue.

For one guy you MIGHT pay that... it's paying for EVERYBODY else that is my problem with it.

Honestly, where do you draw the line? If one guy comes here illegally, gets injured and gets health care because it's free, you will see many, MANY more people crossing the borders to get assistance... then go back home (MAYBE) and pay nothing? They would successfully have beaten the system.

We already have an immigration problem. Sorry, but this will only add to that problem... under-the-table jobs are enough of an incentive that people are willing to jump our borders illegally. Add free health care as an "incentive" and the problem gets worse.

You want to talk about human rights issues? There are millions upon millions in the world with no source of clean drinking water, no food, genocide in Darfur, homelessness, sweatshops, AIDS/HIV, ect. ect... Those have more to do with human rights than this... This is a person who chose to break the law. He took the risk that the American taxpayer did not ask for. Sorry, but I don't find it the least bit insensitive when people purposely break the law.

[whgnailer10]

Ok, if everybody only pays .001 per person... let's just say that 1,000,000 people receive care in one year... That is 1,000 dollars in extra taxes per person, per year. Where does that come from?

[doublem]

Rather than give the guy a million bucks and have him go on his way, why don't we show real compaission and have doublem take the guy into his house for the rest of his life. doublem can take care of him and his bills, and the guatamalan can receive real compassion and live out the rest of his days in a nice comfy home.

Right, like someone getting Medicare is really comparable to having them in someone's home. Do you realize the amount of tax dollars you are paying is like .001% for this guy. This shouldn't be an illegal immigrant issue, it is a human rights issue.

For one guy you MIGHT pay that... it's paying for EVERYBODY else that is my problem with it.

Honestly, where do you draw the line? If one guy comes here illegally, gets injured and gets health care because it's free, you will see many, MANY more people crossing the borders to get assistance... then go back home (MAYBE) and pay nothing? They would successfully have beaten the system.

We already have an immigration problem. Sorry, but this will only add to that problem... under-the-table jobs are enough of an incentive that people are willing to jump our borders illegally. Add free health care as an "incentive" and the problem gets worse.

You want to talk about human rights issues? There are millions upon millions in the world with no source of clean drinking water, no food, genocide in Darfur, homelessness, sweatshops, AIDS/HIV, ect. ect... Those have more to do with human rights than this... This is a person who chose to break the law. He took the risk that the American taxpayer did not ask for. Sorry, but I don't find it the least bit insensitive when people purposely break the law.

Like that is really anything like this situation. The guy didn't break his leg, he is paralyzed and will spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair. Do you think illegals are going to try and get hit by drunk drivers, so they can get free health care? The severity of his injuries is why he was on Medicare, do you realize that? In your mind once you break the law, everything else is fair game, so other laws don't apply once you break one? Paying taxes don't give us a right to dictate policies, people take risks all the time that the American taxpayer has to pay for and this is what bothers you?

[doublem]

Ok, if everybody only pays .001 per person... let's just say that 1,000,000 people receive care in one year... That is 1,000 dollars in extra taxes per person, per year. Where does that come from?

Not everyone is paralyzed by a drunk driver, why don't you get that?

[bhaw]

Ok, if everybody only pays .001 per person... let's just say that 1,000,000 people receive care in one year... That is 1,000 dollars in extra taxes per person, per year. Where does that come from?

Not everyone is paralyzed by a drunk driver, why don't you get that?

The irony is that if he paralyzed someone while drunk driving, he would have no consequences other than being deported.

[doublem]

Ok, if everybody only pays .001 per person... let's just say that 1,000,000 people receive care in one year... That is 1,000 dollars in extra taxes per person, per year. Where does that come from?

Not everyone is paralyzed by a drunk driver, why don't you get that?

The irony is that if he paralyzed someone while drunk driving, he would have no consequences other than being deported.

That isn't always true.

[Ron`]

The eskimo's had it right, just put grandma on a boat and set her adrift in the North Pacific. When will people realize that the health care problem is driven by the lack of jobs that can afford to provide health care. Jobs and economic growth have provided health care in the past. Increasing entitlements is not the way to go. Killing the jobs providing true economic growth through taxation and hiding the real numbers has been the biggest political scam to get us where we are today. Both parties are to blame. Welcome to a service based economy that crashes on the first downturn.

[whgnailer10]

Ok, if everybody only pays .001 per person... let's just say that 1,000,000 people receive care in one year... That is 1,000 dollars in extra taxes per person, per year. Where does that come from?

Not everyone is paralyzed by a drunk driver, why don't you get that?

I'm talking health care reform; you're talking Guatemalans hit by drunk drivers... What don't you get about that? If you must take an extreme case like one person being paralyzed by a drunk driver, to prove why we need health care reform I think it's a bit far fetched. It's not the norm.

I'm talking overall norms and possible problems when I'm talking about this reform. Not random foreigners being hit by drunk drivers.

And I'm not saying that people would go out of their way to get injured when they are here, but there will be people with pre-existing symptoms who will definitely cross the border to take advantage of this very system. It happens here in Spain, why wouldn't it happen in the US?

[whgnailer10]

The eskimo's had it right, just put grandma on a boat and set her adrift in the North Pacific. When will people realize that the health care problem is driven by the lack of jobs that can afford to provide health care. Jobs and economic growth have provided health care in the past. Increasing entitlements is not the way to go. Killing the jobs providing true economic growth through taxation and hiding the real numbers has been the biggest political scam to get us where we are today. Both parties are to blame. Welcome to a service based economy that crashes on the first downturn.

Agreed with the underlined part. and ESPECIALLY agree that both parties are to blame... However, we are to blame too for not being able to see through the BS though too... We do have the power to vote still right? heh heh heh.

[Ron`]

The eskimo's had it right, just put grandma on a boat and set her adrift in the North Pacific. When will people realize that the health care problem is driven by the lack of jobs that can afford to provide health care. Jobs and economic growth have provided health care in the past. Increasing entitlements is not the way to go. Killing the jobs providing true economic growth through taxation and hiding the real numbers has been the biggest political scam to get us where we are today. Both parties are to blame. Welcome to a service based economy that crashes on the first downturn.

Agreed with the underlined part. and ESPECIALLY agree that both parties are to blame... However, we are to blame too for not being able to see through the BS though too... We do have the power to vote still right? heh heh heh.

Ehem, the Eskimo comment was sarcastic of course.

[whgnailer10]

Ehem, the Eskimo comment was sarcastic of course.

Yeah, I thought that was a given.

[doublem]

The eskimo's had it right, just put grandma on a boat and set her adrift in the North Pacific. When will people realize that the health care problem is driven by the lack of jobs that can afford to provide health care. Jobs and economic growth have provided health care in the past. Increasing entitlements is not the way to go. Killing the jobs providing true economic growth through taxation and hiding the real numbers has been the biggest political scam to get us where we are today. Both parties are to blame. Welcome to a service based economy that crashes on the first downturn.

According to this, you aren't anywhere near correct.

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/2...eneurship" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[whgnailer10]

The eskimo's had it right, just put grandma on a boat and set her adrift in the North Pacific. When will people realize that the health care problem is driven by the lack of jobs that can afford to provide health care. Jobs and economic growth have provided health care in the past. Increasing entitlements is not the way to go. Killing the jobs providing true economic growth through taxation and hiding the real numbers has been the biggest political scam to get us where we are today. Both parties are to blame. Welcome to a service based economy that crashes on the first downturn.

According to this, you aren't anywhere near correct.

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/2...eneurship" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oh, you mean the "Page Not Found" link?

[Ron`]

Page not found is much like the industrial base of this country....

[doublem]

Ok, if everybody only pays .001 per person... let's just say that 1,000,000 people receive care in one year... That is 1,000 dollars in extra taxes per person, per year. Where does that come from?

Not everyone is paralyzed by a drunk driver, why don't you get that?

I'm talking health care reform; you're talking Guatemalans hit by drunk drivers... What don't you get about that? If you must take an extreme case like one person being paralyzed by a drunk driver, to prove why we need health care reform I think it's a bit far fetched. It's not the norm.

I'm talking overall norms and possible problems when I'm talking about this reform. Not random foreigners being hit by drunk drivers.

And I'm not saying that people would go out of their way to get injured when they are here, but there will be people with pre-existing symptoms who will definitely cross the border to take advantage of this very system. It happens here in Spain, why wouldn't it happen in the US?

People do take advantage of the system, that happens with everything. I still think it would be better to have everyone covered than to have 47 million uninsured. I'm not trying to make a case for health care reform because a guy got hit by a drunk driver. I just have a hard to understanding why everyone is so worked up about this.

[doublem]

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/2 ... eneurship/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;