2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

[FLPensFan]

Cody Glass on his way here.

He was a guy I had on a list of targets when I said we needed to add a RH centerman. He was further down the list, but still, when you say you want to get younger, this is the type of move I envisioned Dubas making. Glass makes 2.5M this year and is still an RFA next summer. Has first round pedigree.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got a pick thrown in to take Glass, since Nashville was over 596K under the cap, but with only a 20 man roster. I could see a Poulin type going back as a cheap add.

[Puck-Lurker]

Cody Glass on his way here.

He was a guy I had on a list of targets when I said we needed to add a RH centerman. He was further down the list, but still, when you say you want to get younger, this is the type of move I envisioned Dubas making. Glass makes 2.5M this year and is still an RFA next summer. Has first round pedigree.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got a pick thrown in to take Glass, since Nashville was over 596K under the cap, but with only a 20 man roster. I could see a Poulin type going back as a cheap add.

That's what I'm hoping for. How about a 2025 2nd rounder and we send back Gruden?

[KG]

Cody Glass on his way here.

He was a guy I had on a list of targets when I said we needed to add a RH centerman. He was further down the list, but still, when you say you want to get younger, this is the type of move I envisioned Dubas making. Glass makes 2.5M this year and is still an RFA next summer. Has first round pedigree.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got a pick thrown in to take Glass, since Nashville was over 596K under the cap, but with only a 20 man roster. I could see a Poulin type going back as a cheap add.

That's what I'm hoping for. How about a 2025 2nd rounder and we send back Gruden?

Here's an article from a few weeks ago predicting Glass would have to be moved so the Preds can sign their remaining RFA's. Hopefully we got an asset back.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/nashville ... ign-3-rfas

[Pitts]

The Pittsburgh Penguins have acquired forward Cody Glass, a 2025 third-round draft pick and a 2026 sixth-round draft pick from the Nashville Predators in exchange for forward Jordan Frasca, it was announced today by President of Hockey Operations and General Manager Kyle Dubas.

https://www.nhl.com/penguins/news/pengu ... dan-frasca

[FLPensFan]

So, making some forward roster assumptions:

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell

Seems very likely that's your top 6. Which leaves the following players fighting for bottom 6 roles:

Eller, Hayes, Acciari, Beauvillier, Lizotte, Puljujarvi, Glass, Puustinen, Pouiln, Gruden, Bemstrom.

I'm gonna cut/waive Gruden and Bemstrom, and think both will make it through waivers fine. That still leaves 9 players fighting for 6 spots, and maybe 1 or 2 extra forwards (depends on what we carry on defense, 7 or 8).

Lizotte-Glass-Puljujarvi would be an intriguing forechecking 4th line.

[Pitts]

So, making some forward roster assumptions:

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell

Seems very likely that's your top 6. Which leaves the following players fighting for bottom 6 roles:

Eller, Hayes, Acciari, Beauvillier, Lizotte, Puljujarvi, Glass, Puustinen, Pouiln, Gruden, Bemstrom.

I'm gonna cut/waive Gruden and Bemstrom, and think both will make it through waivers fine. That still leaves 9 players fighting for 6 spots, and maybe 1 or 2 extra forwards (depends on what we carry on defense, 7 or 8).

Lizotte-Glass-Puljujarvi would be an intriguing forechecking 4th line.

Too many bodies and NO (Pens) young players. I go back to the article I read a few weeks back that Eller will be traded before end of camp. At least one or two moves need to be made IMO.

[Daniel]

So, making some forward roster assumptions:

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell

Seems very likely that's your top 6. Which leaves the following players fighting for bottom 6 roles:

Eller, Hayes, Acciari, Beauvillier, Lizotte, Puljujarvi, Glass, Puustinen, Pouiln, Gruden, Bemstrom.

I'm gonna cut/waive Gruden and Bemstrom, and think both will make it through waivers fine. That still leaves 9 players fighting for 6 spots, and maybe 1 or 2 extra forwards (depends on what we carry on defense, 7 or 8).

Lizotte-Glass-Puljujarvi would be an intriguing forechecking 4th line.

Too many bodies and NO (Pens) young players. I go back to the article I read a few weeks back that Eller will be traded before end of camp. At least one or two moves need to be made IMO.

Same thing every year. 15 veterans for 12 spots, create the roster on who has waiver exemption, then wonder why the kids can't progress further than the AHL. I'm not saying these kids are going to be All Stars, but AHL has never really had top prospects since the Penguins tend to get low 1sts or superstars and little in between. Still WBS was instrumental in the back to back cups with 3rd/4th round guys with Jake and Rust moving up and the rest out.

[KG]

So, making some forward roster assumptions:

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell

Seems very likely that's your top 6. Which leaves the following players fighting for bottom 6 roles:

Eller, Hayes, Acciari, Beauvillier, Lizotte, Puljujarvi, Glass, Puustinen, Pouiln, Gruden, Bemstrom.

I'm gonna cut/waive Gruden and Bemstrom, and think both will make it through waivers fine. That still leaves 9 players fighting for 6 spots, and maybe 1 or 2 extra forwards (depends on what we carry on defense, 7 or 8).

Lizotte-Glass-Puljujarvi would be an intriguing forechecking 4th line.

Too many bodies and NO (Pens) young players. I go back to the article I read a few weeks back that Eller will be traded before end of camp. At least one or two moves need to be made IMO.

Same thing every year. 15 veterans for 12 spots, create the roster on who has waiver exemption, then wonder why the kids can't progress further than the AHL. I'm not saying these kids are going to be All Stars, but AHL has never really had top prospects since the Penguins tend to get low 1sts or superstars and little in between. Still WBS was instrumental in the back to back cups with 3rd/4th round guys with Jake and Rust moving up and the rest out.

I'm viewing this season as a transition year where we acquire more picks/young players and trade out more veterans. 25-26 season I would expect Ponomarov, Koivunen, Pickering, Blomqvist, maybe Yager to all be in the lineup. If not, then I don't know what the plan is...

[Daniel]

So, making some forward roster assumptions:

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell

Seems very likely that's your top 6. Which leaves the following players fighting for bottom 6 roles:

Eller, Hayes, Acciari, Beauvillier, Lizotte, Puljujarvi, Glass, Puustinen, Pouiln, Gruden, Bemstrom.

I'm gonna cut/waive Gruden and Bemstrom, and think both will make it through waivers fine. That still leaves 9 players fighting for 6 spots, and maybe 1 or 2 extra forwards (depends on what we carry on defense, 7 or 8).

Lizotte-Glass-Puljujarvi would be an intriguing forechecking 4th line.

Too many bodies and NO (Pens) young players. I go back to the article I read a few weeks back that Eller will be traded before end of camp. At least one or two moves need to be made IMO.

Same thing every year. 15 veterans for 12 spots, create the roster on who has waiver exemption, then wonder why the kids can't progress further than the AHL. I'm not saying these kids are going to be All Stars, but AHL has never really had top prospects since the Penguins tend to get low 1sts or superstars and little in between. Still WBS was instrumental in the back to back cups with 3rd/4th round guys with Jake and Rust moving up and the rest out.

I'm viewing this season as a transition year where we acquire more picks/young players and trade out more veterans. 25-26 season I would expect Ponomarov, Koivunen, Pickering, Blomqvist, maybe Yager to all be in the lineup. If not, then I don't know what the plan is...

I think if the Penguins would have allowed 1-2 spots for kids for compete for the franchise would be much different. The kid that went to Sweden rather than try for the NHL is a great example of someone who could have played on the 4th line just as good as the scrubs we've seen with the potential to move up (can't remember his name off hand). Problem is they're one mistake away from demotion and hope to do good in practice. Problem is, everyone sees that so the morale must be terrible They're not thinking of the NHL, they're thinking of which team might give them a chance.

I think the plan is to get scrubs and pray the rest of the league has an off year but the reality is middle 1st round picks until they become the Red Wings and 10-15 years of "maybe next year". I honestly don't see a plan, I just see denial. I hope you're right and 2025 is the start of a new era, but as long as Sullivan can blame Jarry or the PP or the assistant coaches or anyone but himself, the Penguins will be a middle of the pack team thinking they can' relive the glory years.

[FLPensFan]

So, making some forward roster assumptions:

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell

Seems very likely that's your top 6. Which leaves the following players fighting for bottom 6 roles:

Eller, Hayes, Acciari, Beauvillier, Lizotte, Puljujarvi, Glass, Puustinen, Pouiln, Gruden, Bemstrom.

I'm gonna cut/waive Gruden and Bemstrom, and think both will make it through waivers fine. That still leaves 9 players fighting for 6 spots, and maybe 1 or 2 extra forwards (depends on what we carry on defense, 7 or 8).

Lizotte-Glass-Puljujarvi would be an intriguing forechecking 4th line.

Too many bodies and NO (Pens) young players. I go back to the article I read a few weeks back that Eller will be traded before end of camp. At least one or two moves need to be made IMO.

Same thing every year. 15 veterans for 12 spots, create the roster on who has waiver exemption, then wonder why the kids can't progress further than the AHL. I'm not saying these kids are going to be All Stars, but AHL has never really had top prospects since the Penguins tend to get low 1sts or superstars and little in between. Still WBS was instrumental in the back to back cups with 3rd/4th round guys with Jake and Rust moving up and the rest out.

I'm viewing this season as a transition year where we acquire more picks/young players and trade out more veterans. 25-26 season I would expect Ponomarov, Koivunen, Pickering, Blomqvist, maybe Yager to all be in the lineup. If not, then I don't know what the plan is...

I think if the Penguins would have allowed 1-2 spots for kids for compete for the franchise would be much different. The kid that went to Sweden rather than try for the NHL is a great example of someone who could have played on the 4th line just as good as the scrubs we've seen with the potential to move up (can't remember his name off hand). Problem is they're one mistake away from demotion and hope to do good in practice. Problem is, everyone sees that so the morale must be terrible They're not thinking of the NHL, they're thinking of which team might give them a chance.

I think the plan is to get scrubs and pray the rest of the league has an off year but the reality is middle 1st round picks until they become the Red Wings and 10-15 years of "maybe next year". I honestly don't see a plan, I just see denial. I hope you're right and 2025 is the start of a new era, but as long as Sullivan can blame Jarry or the PP or the assistant coaches or anyone but himself, the Penguins will be a middle of the pack team thinking they can' relive the glory years.

You have a handful of players to pick from in terms of "guys who left the organization after not getting their fair shot." I think the one you are thinking of is either Kasper Bjorkqvist or Filip Halander. Both were talked about in exit interviews as being part of the plans for their upcoming season, and both left over the summer because they didn't feel they were getting the shot they wanted, and could make more money back in Sweden. Goalie Filip Lindberg also left and went back to Finland, because he didn't get a shot. Another player, who in all fairness didn't seem to have a shot at the NHL but left the org anyways was Jan Drzog.

The problem is Dubas gave Eller 2 years and Acciari 3 years (plus NTC for Acciari). Then we added Hayes. Now we've added Glass.

The way things are shaking out, they like try and sneak Poulin and Gruden through waivers as the first callups. In 25-26, Poulin needs to either be in the NHL or out of the organization. Ponomarev, Koivunen, and Broz should be pushing for forward spots. Pickering should be on the team next season. Blomqvist should be on the team next season. I think Yager still will need a year in the AHL before making the jump. Probably gets a few games in 25-26 and pushes for full time NHL spot in 26-27.

Then the problem becomes...there simply isn't enough room on the NHL roster for Puustinen, Puljujarvi, Poulin, Lizotte, Glass, Ponomarev, Koivunen, and Broz. Quite frankly, there isn't enough separation between all of those guys to confidently project any of them can play in the top 6, and that's 8 players for 6 spots. Some of these guys are going to have to prove themselves pretty quickly and stay consistent, because there are other guys chomping at their heels to make a better impression. There won't be room for all of them.

[Daniel]

I think if the Penguins would have allowed 1-2 spots for kids for compete for the franchise would be much different. The kid that went to Sweden rather than try for the NHL is a great example of someone who could have played on the 4th line just as good as the scrubs we've seen with the potential to move up (can't remember his name off hand). Problem is they're one mistake away from demotion and hope to do good in practice. Problem is, everyone sees that so the morale must be terrible They're not thinking of the NHL, they're thinking of which team might give them a chance.

I think the plan is to get scrubs and pray the rest of the league has an off year but the reality is middle 1st round picks until they become the Red Wings and 10-15 years of "maybe next year". I honestly don't see a plan, I just see denial. I hope you're right and 2025 is the start of a new era, but as long as Sullivan can blame Jarry or the PP or the assistant coaches or anyone but himself, the Penguins will be a middle of the pack team thinking they can' relive the glory years.

You have a handful of players to pick from in terms of "guys who left the organization after not getting their fair shot." I think the one you are thinking of is either Kasper Bjorkqvist or Filip Halander. Both were talked about in exit interviews as being part of the plans for their upcoming season, and both left over the summer because they didn't feel they were getting the shot they wanted, and could make more money back in Sweden. Goalie Filip Lindberg also left and went back to Finland, because he didn't get a shot. Another player, who in all fairness didn't seem to have a shot at the NHL but left the org anyways was Jan Drzog.

The problem is Dubas gave Eller 2 years and Acciari 3 years (plus NTC for Acciari). Then we added Hayes. Now we've added Glass.

The way things are shaking out, they like try and sneak Poulin and Gruden through waivers as the first callups. In 25-26, Poulin needs to either be in the NHL or out of the organization. Ponomarev, Koivunen, and Broz should be pushing for forward spots. Pickering should be on the team next season. Blomqvist should be on the team next season. I think Yager still will need a year in the AHL before making the jump. Probably gets a few games in 25-26 and pushes for full time NHL spot in 26-27.

Then the problem becomes...there simply isn't enough room on the NHL roster for Puustinen, Puljujarvi, Poulin, Lizotte, Glass, Ponomarev, Koivunen, and Broz. Quite frankly, there isn't enough separation between all of those guys to confidently project any of them can play in the top 6, and that's 8 players for 6 spots. Some of these guys are going to have to prove themselves pretty quickly and stay consistent, because there are other guys chomping at their heels to make a better impression. There won't be room for all of them.

It was Bjorkqvist, thanks, but Hallander never got a chance either. I can see Lindberg because say what you want, but Jarry and DeSmith were entrenched for a bit as goalies and it’s not really a position you sign 1 and give competition to the other through prospects. Especially since both were young at the time.

But Bjorkqvist And Hallandar and countless others? They wasted their time in this organization and would have had a better shot elsewhere. I get it if they have a shot and fail or just aren’t good enough, but they were competing against non waiver eligible scrubs that never should have been signed. Jankowski and the likes didn’t need to be signed but “they can just be waived” was the mentality, only they were never waived and never played well.

Have 2 spots for several prospects and hope to fill the spot and if not, make a trade for guys like Jankowski in January. Those guys get traded for low round picks all the time.

The last few seasons have been predictable and the franchise hasn’t grown at all. I’ll go into next season like I do all others, excited and hopeful, but I admit the leash is getting shorter before I stop paying to watch.

[Dynasty1970]

I think if the Penguins would have allowed 1-2 spots for kids for compete for the franchise would be much different. The kid that went to Sweden rather than try for the NHL is a great example of someone who could have played on the 4th line just as good as the scrubs we've seen with the potential to move up (can't remember his name off hand). Problem is they're one mistake away from demotion and hope to do good in practice. Problem is, everyone sees that so the morale must be terrible They're not thinking of the NHL, they're thinking of which team might give them a chance.

I think the plan is to get scrubs and pray the rest of the league has an off year but the reality is middle 1st round picks until they become the Red Wings and 10-15 years of "maybe next year". I honestly don't see a plan, I just see denial. I hope you're right and 2025 is the start of a new era, but as long as Sullivan can blame Jarry or the PP or the assistant coaches or anyone but himself, the Penguins will be a middle of the pack team thinking they can' relive the glory years.

You have a handful of players to pick from in terms of "guys who left the organization after not getting their fair shot." I think the one you are thinking of is either Kasper Bjorkqvist or Filip Halander. Both were talked about in exit interviews as being part of the plans for their upcoming season, and both left over the summer because they didn't feel they were getting the shot they wanted, and could make more money back in Sweden. Goalie Filip Lindberg also left and went back to Finland, because he didn't get a shot. Another player, who in all fairness didn't seem to have a shot at the NHL but left the org anyways was Jan Drzog.

The problem is Dubas gave Eller 2 years and Acciari 3 years (plus NTC for Acciari). Then we added Hayes. Now we've added Glass.

The way things are shaking out, they like try and sneak Poulin and Gruden through waivers as the first callups. In 25-26, Poulin needs to either be in the NHL or out of the organization. Ponomarev, Koivunen, and Broz should be pushing for forward spots. Pickering should be on the team next season. Blomqvist should be on the team next season. I think Yager still will need a year in the AHL before making the jump. Probably gets a few games in 25-26 and pushes for full time NHL spot in 26-27.

Then the problem becomes...there simply isn't enough room on the NHL roster for Puustinen, Puljujarvi, Poulin, Lizotte, Glass, Ponomarev, Koivunen, and Broz. Quite frankly, there isn't enough separation between all of those guys to confidently project any of them can play in the top 6, and that's 8 players for 6 spots. Some of these guys are going to have to prove themselves pretty quickly and stay consistent, because there are other guys chomping at their heels to make a better impression. There won't be room for all of them.

It was Bjorkqvist, thanks, but Hallander never got a chance either. I can see Lindberg because say what you want, but Jarry and DeSmith were entrenched for a bit as goalies and it’s not really a position you sign 1 and give competition to the other through prospects. Especially since both were young at the time.

But Bjorkqvist And Hallandar and countless others? They wasted their time in this organization and would have had a better shot elsewhere. I get it if they have a shot and fail or just aren’t good enough, but they were competing against non waiver eligible scrubs that never should have been signed. Jankowski and the likes didn’t need to be signed but “they can just be waived” was the mentality, only they were never waived and never played well.

Have 2 spots for several prospects and hope to fill the spot and if not, make a trade for guys like Jankowski in January. Those guys get traded for low round picks all the time.


The last few seasons have been predictable and the franchise hasn’t grown at all. I’ll go into next season like I do all others, excited and hopeful, but I admit the leash is getting shorter before I stop paying to watch.

I cancelled my subscription to NHL Center Ice. Just can't do it anymore. It isn't even the money as they practically give it away these days. Its the fact that I spend 3 hours a game watching the same rerun over and over. It just isn't healthy anymore.

[100565]

I agree. In recent years signing vets for 3rd or 4th line is not ideal.

However, Glass and Hayes are different. A team signing a vet player and then sending the vet to AHL is probably not a good idea - players who are thinking about signing here in the future may consider treatment of other players signed in the past. There is no such allegiance to Glass or Hayes. The Pens were paid to take them. Therefore, if a younger player earns a spot, they could/should waive one or both. If no younger player earns a spot, ya got someone.

Of course Sully needs to give youngsters an opportunity to earn a spot. Fire Sully if he doesn’t.

[Daniel]

I agree. In recent years signing vets for 3rd or 4th line is not ideal.

However, Glass and Hayes are different. A team signing a vet player and then sending the vet to AHL is probably not a good idea - players who are thinking about signing here in the future may consider treatment of other players signed in the past. There is no such allegiance to Glass or Hayes. The Pens were paid to take them. Therefore, if a younger player earns a spot, they could/should waive one or both. If no younger player earns a spot, ya got someone.

Of course Sully needs to give youngsters an opportunity to earn a spot. Fire Sully if he doesn’t.

While I think that's how it should be, that's not how Sullivan seems to operate. Young players can't just be given a couple of weeks to outperform a veteran, they need time to develop if they have nothing to prove in the AHL. Too many times a player will make a mistake and never see the NHL again. Every other young player sees that and plays tight. Some can overcome it, but when was the last rookie the team drafted who played more than a few games? Simon? You can hide a kid on the 3rd/4th line and give him a few months to see the improvement. You can't just give them 3 games at 8 minutes per game and hope they can do well. The Penguins setup a lot of young players to fail then wonder why they do.

[FLPensFan]

I agree. In recent years signing vets for 3rd or 4th line is not ideal.

However, Glass and Hayes are different. A team signing a vet player and then sending the vet to AHL is probably not a good idea - players who are thinking about signing here in the future may consider treatment of other players signed in the past. There is no such allegiance to Glass or Hayes. The Pens were paid to take them. Therefore, if a younger player earns a spot, they could/should waive one or both. If no younger player earns a spot, ya got someone.

Of course Sully needs to give youngsters an opportunity to earn a spot. Fire Sully if he doesn’t.

While I think that's how it should be, that's not how Sullivan seems to operate. Young players can't just be given a couple of weeks to outperform a veteran, they need time to develop if they have nothing to prove in the AHL. Too many times a player will make a mistake and never see the NHL again. Every other young player sees that and plays tight. Some can overcome it, but when was the last rookie the team drafted who played more than a few games? Simon? You can hide a kid on the 3rd/4th line and give him a few months to see the improvement. You can't just give them 3 games at 8 minutes per game and hope they can do well. The Penguins setup a lot of young players to fail then wonder why they do.

Dubas talks about the core being here to teach the new guys. What they should be doing, is taking a strong defensively responsible center like Eller, put him as the 3C, and flank him with 2 young guys. Let them make mistakes and learn from them, as opposed to making a mistake and getting Lafferty'd out of town.

[Daniel]

I agree. In recent years signing vets for 3rd or 4th line is not ideal.

However, Glass and Hayes are different. A team signing a vet player and then sending the vet to AHL is probably not a good idea - players who are thinking about signing here in the future may consider treatment of other players signed in the past. There is no such allegiance to Glass or Hayes. The Pens were paid to take them. Therefore, if a younger player earns a spot, they could/should waive one or both. If no younger player earns a spot, ya got someone.

Of course Sully needs to give youngsters an opportunity to earn a spot. Fire Sully if he doesn’t.

While I think that's how it should be, that's not how Sullivan seems to operate. Young players can't just be given a couple of weeks to outperform a veteran, they need time to develop if they have nothing to prove in the AHL. Too many times a player will make a mistake and never see the NHL again. Every other young player sees that and plays tight. Some can overcome it, but when was the last rookie the team drafted who played more than a few games? Simon? You can hide a kid on the 3rd/4th line and give him a few months to see the improvement. You can't just give them 3 games at 8 minutes per game and hope they can do well. The Penguins setup a lot of young players to fail then wonder why they do.

Dubas talks about the core being here to teach the new guys. What they should be doing, is taking a strong defensively responsible center like Eller, put him as the 3C, and flank him with 2 young guys. Let them make mistakes and learn from them, as opposed to making a mistake and getting Lafferty'd out of town.

Teach the news guys what? Dubas has gotten a bunch of veterans. I agree, Eller and Hayes can be flanked by 3 or 4 from WBS and allow them a few months to get acclimated. I don’t think they should be gifted spots, but several compete for the spots and see who wins the spot, if someone forces their way to the top 6, even better. The new players Dubas got won’t really move the needle much and for the most part they are what they are.

[Pens4Life]

Glass trade is good, young RH C with potential, Lizotte signing I dont mind, small but energy bomb and solid 4th liner, Hayes deal I dont get, 32yrs old and slow skater,not suited for our style of hockey..

For years and years we are signing so much vet UFA and trading for vets that our youngsters in system are not getting the real chance to play in NHL,wasting their years here.. I also dont get how and with what we convinced Filip Larsson to come here, after being best goalie in Swedish league.. now he will be in AHL lol!? I still hope Jarry trade is in the works and Nedeljkovic and Larsson share the NHL duties, Blomquist and Murashov share the AHL duties..

Trades for Jarry, sadly now for Eller as well must happen, probably even Acciari, Nieto later in the season..

[Puck-Lurker]

Glass trade is good, young RH C with potential, Lizotte signing I dont mind, small but energy bomb and solid 4th liner, Hayes deal I dont get, 32yrs old and slow skater,not suited for our style of hockey..

For years and years we are signing so much vet UFA and trading for vets that our youngsters in system are not getting the real chance to play in NHL,wasting their years here.. I also dont get how and with what we convinced Filip Larsson to come here, after being best goalie in Swedish league.. now he will be in AHL lol!? I still hope Jarry trade is in the works and Nedeljkovic and Larsson share the NHL duties, Blomquist and Murashov share the AHL duties..

Trades for Jarry, sadly now for Eller as well must happen, probably even Acciari, Nieto later in the season..

We've got a while yet to trade people this season. I'd love to get a Jarry trade going

[KG]

Vrana back to the Caps on a PTO.

[dark_forces]

I agree. In recent years signing vets for 3rd or 4th line is not ideal.

However, Glass and Hayes are different. A team signing a vet player and then sending the vet to AHL is probably not a good idea - players who are thinking about signing here in the future may consider treatment of other players signed in the past. There is no such allegiance to Glass or Hayes. The Pens were paid to take them. Therefore, if a younger player earns a spot, they could/should waive one or both. If no younger player earns a spot, ya got someone.

Of course Sully needs to give youngsters an opportunity to earn a spot. Fire Sully if he doesn’t.

While I think that's how it should be, that's not how Sullivan seems to operate. Young players can't just be given a couple of weeks to outperform a veteran, they need time to develop if they have nothing to prove in the AHL. Too many times a player will make a mistake and never see the NHL again. Every other young player sees that and plays tight. Some can overcome it, but when was the last rookie the team drafted who played more than a few games? Simon? You can hide a kid on the 3rd/4th line and give him a few months to see the improvement. You can't just give them 3 games at 8 minutes per game and hope they can do well. The Penguins setup a lot of young players to fail then wonder why they do.

Dubas talks about the core being here to teach the new guys. What they should be doing, is taking a strong defensively responsible center like Eller, put him as the 3C, and flank him with 2 young guys. Let them make mistakes and learn from them, as opposed to making a mistake and getting Lafferty'd out of town.

Teach the news guys what? Dubas has gotten a bunch of veterans. I agree, Eller and Hayes can be flanked by 3 or 4 from WBS and allow them a few months to get acclimated. I don’t think they should be gifted spots, but several compete for the spots and see who wins the spot, if someone forces their way to the top 6, even better. The new players Dubas got won’t really move the needle much and for the most part they are what they are.

I, for one, don't mind what Dubas has done. While the core is a year older, the supporting cast should have solid depth and better competition than last season. But, I'm naturally an optimist.
I remember Craig Patrick was big on players with limited term, or one year left on their contracts because they tended to play harder for another contract.
Other than Lizotte, who should be a lock on the 4th line, I don't think anything is owed to any of the bottom-six/depth forwards.
Hayes and Glass were basically pawned off on us; Puustinen, Poulin, and Bemstrom are nowhere near locks to even make the final roster (although I think Puustinen does make it), Beauvillier is likely on his last chance at being an NHL regular, Nieto may never play another game for the Pens, Eller probably won't finish the season on our roster, and Acciari will probably be no worse than a 12th forward. What I like is the competition. 1) it'll be much better than last camp. 2) in the event of injuries, there are players that can slot in and fill out the bottom six, and do so reliably.

[Daniel]

I agree. In recent years signing vets for 3rd or 4th line is not ideal.

However, Glass and Hayes are different. A team signing a vet player and then sending the vet to AHL is probably not a good idea - players who are thinking about signing here in the future may consider treatment of other players signed in the past. There is no such allegiance to Glass or Hayes. The Pens were paid to take them. Therefore, if a younger player earns a spot, they could/should waive one or both. If no younger player earns a spot, ya got someone.

Of course Sully needs to give youngsters an opportunity to earn a spot. Fire Sully if he doesn’t.

While I think that's how it should be, that's not how Sullivan seems to operate. Young players can't just be given a couple of weeks to outperform a veteran, they need time to develop if they have nothing to prove in the AHL. Too many times a player will make a mistake and never see the NHL again. Every other young player sees that and plays tight. Some can overcome it, but when was the last rookie the team drafted who played more than a few games? Simon? You can hide a kid on the 3rd/4th line and give him a few months to see the improvement. You can't just give them 3 games at 8 minutes per game and hope they can do well. The Penguins setup a lot of young players to fail then wonder why they do.

Dubas talks about the core being here to teach the new guys. What they should be doing, is taking a strong defensively responsible center like Eller, put him as the 3C, and flank him with 2 young guys. Let them make mistakes and learn from them, as opposed to making a mistake and getting Lafferty'd out of town.

Teach the news guys what? Dubas has gotten a bunch of veterans. I agree, Eller and Hayes can be flanked by 3 or 4 from WBS and allow them a few months to get acclimated. I don’t think they should be gifted spots, but several compete for the spots and see who wins the spot, if someone forces their way to the top 6, even better. The new players Dubas got won’t really move the needle much and for the most part they are what they are.

I, for one, don't mind what Dubas has done. While the core is a year older, the supporting cast should have solid depth and better competition than last season. But, I'm naturally an optimist.
I remember Craig Patrick was big on players with limited term, or one year left on their contracts because they tended to play harder for another contract.
Other than Lizotte, who should be a lock on the 4th line, I don't think anything is owed to any of the bottom-six/depth forwards.
Hayes and Glass were basically pawned off on us; Puustinen, Poulin, and Bemstrom are nowhere near locks to even make the final roster (although I think Puustinen does make it), Beauvillier is likely on his last chance at being an NHL regular, Nieto may never play another game for the Pens, Eller probably won't finish the season on our roster, and Acciari will probably be no worse than a 12th forward. What I like is the competition. 1) it'll be much better than last camp. 2) in the event of injuries, there are players that can slot in and fill out the bottom six, and do so reliably.

The only issue I have with what Dubas has done is that it's too much and too late and still no room for organizational growth. Each deal has been really good, but the sum of the parts aren't a playoff team and if it's not a playoff team, why not just have several kids throughout the lineup?

I think NHL teams can shelter 1-2 rookies and allow them to grow but the Penguins have a full roster year in and year out and the only competition is between non waiver exempt players with the loser getting cut. In the end I like Dubas and think he's done a good job, it's just frustrating to see 24-25 veterans competing with no chance for a waiver exempt player to make the squad. If the Penguins were cup contenders it would be one thing, but they haven't been in several years.

[FLPensFan]

While I think that's how it should be, that's not how Sullivan seems to operate. Young players can't just be given a couple of weeks to outperform a veteran, they need time to develop if they have nothing to prove in the AHL. Too many times a player will make a mistake and never see the NHL again. Every other young player sees that and plays tight. Some can overcome it, but when was the last rookie the team drafted who played more than a few games? Simon? You can hide a kid on the 3rd/4th line and give him a few months to see the improvement. You can't just give them 3 games at 8 minutes per game and hope they can do well. The Penguins setup a lot of young players to fail then wonder why they do.

Dubas talks about the core being here to teach the new guys. What they should be doing, is taking a strong defensively responsible center like Eller, put him as the 3C, and flank him with 2 young guys. Let them make mistakes and learn from them, as opposed to making a mistake and getting Lafferty'd out of town.

Teach the news guys what? Dubas has gotten a bunch of veterans. I agree, Eller and Hayes can be flanked by 3 or 4 from WBS and allow them a few months to get acclimated. I don’t think they should be gifted spots, but several compete for the spots and see who wins the spot, if someone forces their way to the top 6, even better. The new players Dubas got won’t really move the needle much and for the most part they are what they are.

I, for one, don't mind what Dubas has done. While the core is a year older, the supporting cast should have solid depth and better competition than last season. But, I'm naturally an optimist.
I remember Craig Patrick was big on players with limited term, or one year left on their contracts because they tended to play harder for another contract.
Other than Lizotte, who should be a lock on the 4th line, I don't think anything is owed to any of the bottom-six/depth forwards.
Hayes and Glass were basically pawned off on us; Puustinen, Poulin, and Bemstrom are nowhere near locks to even make the final roster (although I think Puustinen does make it), Beauvillier is likely on his last chance at being an NHL regular, Nieto may never play another game for the Pens, Eller probably won't finish the season on our roster, and Acciari will probably be no worse than a 12th forward. What I like is the competition. 1) it'll be much better than last camp. 2) in the event of injuries, there are players that can slot in and fill out the bottom six, and do so reliably.

The only issue I have with what Dubas has done is that it's too much and too late and still no room for organizational growth. Each deal has been really good, but the sum of the parts aren't a playoff team and if it's not a playoff team, why not just have several kids throughout the lineup?

I think NHL teams can shelter 1-2 rookies and allow them to grow but the Penguins have a full roster year in and year out and the only competition is between non waiver exempt players with the loser getting cut. In the end I like Dubas and think he's done a good job, it's just frustrating to see 24-25 veterans competing with no chance for a waiver exempt player to make the squad. If the Penguins were cup contenders it would be one thing, but they haven't been in several years.

I'm not drinking the kool aid, but every single one of the players seem to think they have a chance, that they can easily be better than they were last year, and that the slow start to the season really sunk them. Of course, what else are they going to say.

If I wanted to make an argument for hope of sneaking into the playoffs
--The PP MUST be better
--Karlsson needs to be better; Graves needs to be markedly better
--DOC needs to evolve to a 20 goal scorer to offset some of the loss of Guentzel; Rakell needs to return to form and have an up year.

I think those are the 3 biggest things (really 5, but hey). I do think this years collection of 20 bottom 6 forwards is better than last years collection of bottom 6 forwards, simply because they are younger and more of them play a Sullivan style of fast and aggressive forecheck. Without touching on the 3 items above, I think the team will be in trouble if:

--They have to lean more on Hayes and Eller at center than Lizotte and Glass.
--Any injuries, or multiple injuries, to the top 6 will really water down the lineup quickly.
--Sullivan continues to pound square pegs like Hayes and Acciari into the lineup over younger guys, even when Hayes and Acciari play average at best for a stretch of games.

That last one is a big item for me with the direction of this team. Yes, a veteran should probably have a little longer of a leash to work his way out of a slump, but, Sullivan needs to read the room and the direction of this team. Lean more towards the younger lineup over guys like Hayes, Eller, and Acciari, who are not part of the future of this team beyond next season.

[100565]

I’m not a fan of how Sully lacks confidence in young players and rookies; however…

Skipping the last 2-3 years (those guys are still in developmental phase), I’d think (without looking) the Pens during last 3-13 drafts have (so 10 years of drafting):
Least amount of total draft picks.
Least amount of top 10 overall picks
Least amount of top 15 overall picks
Least amount of 1st round picks
Below average number of second round picks.

Each year they have traded futures to go for cups; smartly IMO. Only the last 2-3 years have they had decent draft picks.

So I agree Sully’s treatment of youth is questionable but I also acknowledge probable lack of talented youth is also part of the issue and reason vets have been signed.

[FLPensFan]

Given my choice of all the guys we have at forward, this is probably my preferred lineup:

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Lizotte-Glass-Puljujarvi
Beauvillier-Eller-Puustinen

Of course, the problem there is it includes no Acciari or Hayes, and we know that's not allowed to happen. You can flip the 3rd and 4th lines around if you like, but to me they each have a distinctive purpose...Lizotte-Glass-Puljujarvi is a strong forechecking line, and Beauvillier-Eller-Puustinen is a 3rd line where both wingers should be able to hit 15 goals, 30-35 points.

That also leaves Poulin out of the lineup, and frankly, I just don't see how he gets in anywhere. I wouldn't play him over anyone else in that lineup above, and I doubt Sullivan would either, or before Acciari or Hayes.

This is one of the issues the Penguins have. The depth they have, nobody has waiver exemption. I'd rather try and sneak Acciari and Hayes through waivers and see if someone claims them...but again, we know that's not allowed to happen.

[Pitts]

They can waive Acciari and Hayes - no one will claim them at those salaries.

As you say though, we all know that will not happen and both will be in the starting line up opening night. Hayes has Carter 2.0 written all over him. However, I do expect Hayes to be significantly more impactful than Carter has been the past 2 seasons. He should still be good for 40-50 points. His last year with Philly sucked but was wrought with being in the doghouse by the coach and he never fit in in St. Louis last year for whatever reason. We should expect a decent rebound from him. If not, waive him.