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2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

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Pitts
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Pitts »

largegarlic wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:11 am
FLPensFan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:05 am If there is no trade to be made, would you rather take a 1M flyer on a vet like JVR, Pacioretty, Blake Wheeler or Tyler Johnson....or would you rather take a league minimum to 1M flyer on Filip Zadina, Liam Foudy, or Max Comtois?
It's an interesting question. I think if you go with a vet, and they have a rebound season, then they'll either help the Pens get to the playoffs themselves or could fetch a draft pick at the deadline if the Pens are out of it. However, I worry that if they don't rebound, the way this organization and Sullivan seem to work, they won't be scratched or sent to the minors, and the Pens will be stuck with dead weight on the ice every night, and even worse, dead weight that prevents any younger guys from getting a look.

If you go with one of the younger guys who are busts/semi-busts, there's probably less upside, both in terms of helping the team or getting a pick in return for them at the deadline, but there's probably less downside too, since I think they'd be more likely to be scratched/waived, if they aren't cutting it.
I say no to all mentioned above. We were told some of the younger players would make the team this year. We already have no room for even one of them. Why bring in another over-the-hill has been?
KG wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:13 pm
Going back to when KD said he would be open to another Hayes type of trade where we get paid to take on a contract and seeing what little is out there that fits into out box...

Tampa would love to shed themselves of the last 2 years of Sheary's deal. $2mill AAV. As much as I don't want to see Sheary Part III here, it does kind of make sense if Tampa would attach a high pick/prospect.
No thanks! No more re-treads!
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Antonio »

I don't mind the Hayes deal because we basically bought a 2nd, which isn't bad. We need more picks and assets, full stop. This team is going absolutely nowhere in the short term so it needs to start piling assets. I'll take Sheary if he comes with a good second as well. This team is going to suck and who cares honestly. Flush that turd behind the bench and start rebuilding. The retool window closed when they refused to move 58 and 71 and Sullivan and make smart moves a few years ago. It is what it is now. Taking on short contracts for good picks like a 2nd is good business I think. Although for TWO years of Sheary, I'd prefer a second plus something else.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Puck-Lurker »

Pitts wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:45 pm
largegarlic wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:11 am
FLPensFan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:05 am If there is no trade to be made, would you rather take a 1M flyer on a vet like JVR, Pacioretty, Blake Wheeler or Tyler Johnson....or would you rather take a league minimum to 1M flyer on Filip Zadina, Liam Foudy, or Max Comtois?
It's an interesting question. I think if you go with a vet, and they have a rebound season, then they'll either help the Pens get to the playoffs themselves or could fetch a draft pick at the deadline if the Pens are out of it. However, I worry that if they don't rebound, the way this organization and Sullivan seem to work, they won't be scratched or sent to the minors, and the Pens will be stuck with dead weight on the ice every night, and even worse, dead weight that prevents any younger guys from getting a look.

If you go with one of the younger guys who are busts/semi-busts, there's probably less upside, both in terms of helping the team or getting a pick in return for them at the deadline, but there's probably less downside too, since I think they'd be more likely to be scratched/waived, if they aren't cutting it.
I say no to all mentioned above. We were told some of the younger players would make the team this year. We already have no room for even one of them. Why bring in another over-the-hill has been?
KG wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:13 pm
Going back to when KD said he would be open to another Hayes type of trade where we get paid to take on a contract and seeing what little is out there that fits into out box...

Tampa would love to shed themselves of the last 2 years of Sheary's deal. $2mill AAV. As much as I don't want to see Sheary Part III here, it does kind of make sense if Tampa would attach a high pick/prospect.
No thanks! No more re-treads!
With the right picks and prospects? Yes, I'll take that!

He doesn't have a NMC, so send his assets to WBS. Call up someone for league minimum, move only costs 1.25M cap space and adds picks.

But I want something juicy back though, more than a 2nd for 2 years
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by bse »

Former Pens GM Craig Patrick's family still plays a role as Chris Patrick was named the GM of the Philadelphia Flyers. Chris is a son of Dick Patrick, Craig's cousin and I guess Chris is technically also a cousin (once removed?) to CP.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by DelPen »

bse wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:23 pm Former Pens GM Craig Patrick's family still plays a role as Chris Patrick was named the GM of the Philadelphia Flyers. Chris is a son of Dick Patrick, Craig's cousin and I guess Chris is technically also a cousin (once removed?) to CP.
Caps, not Flyers.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by KG »

What do we plan on doing with MP? He's in the last year of his contract, will be 29 when next season ends. I think if the plan is to sign him they should do it if it makes sense long-term.

If he balks then they should trade him now for the best return. Dubas did fine with the Jake return, but if we would have dealt with it in the summer instead of waiting for the deadline we could have netted a lot more.

I think the plan would be to re-sign MP for a modest raise for several years, but we shouldn't wait so late to move him if he rejects the offer.

We could get a real solid return for him to further restock the cupboards.

I don't love that we only have 1 retaining slot left. Retaining on Smith and Petry for this season doesn't help when it comes to moving players for assets. Luckily both of them are off the books next season.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

KG wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:43 pm What do we plan on doing with MP? He's in the last year of his contract, will be 29 when next season ends. I think if the plan is to sign him they should do it if it makes sense long-term.

If he balks then they should trade him now for the best return. Dubas did fine with the Jake return, but if we would have dealt with it in the summer instead of waiting for the deadline we could have netted a lot more.

I think the plan would be to re-sign MP for a modest raise for several years, but we shouldn't wait so late to move him if he rejects the offer.

We could get a real solid return for him to further restock the cupboards.

I don't love that we only have 1 retaining slot left. Retaining on Smith and Petry for this season doesn't help when it comes to moving players for assets. Luckily both of them are off the books next season.
Like Guentzel, I really don't see the point in retaining MP. I think he's the team's best defensive defenseman, but, he'll be 30 when his new contract kicks in. Is this team going to be competing next year? We don't know if it's going to take 1-3 years to do this partial rebuild.

I'd move him at the trade deadline for hopefully something similar to what we got for Guentzel, although, I'd demand a definite 1st in the deal. Maybe a 1st and a high prospect. The problem with moving him now...the teams that are really going to need his services and pay for them...don't have the cap space. The trade deadline at the draft/pre-UFA are the best times to make a trade. Outside of those times, you are limiting the potential suitors in most cases.

And, some of those same teams may not have the cap space to dump salary back to us in return. I'd keep an eye on Vancouver as a potential destination, because they are really lacking a solid 2nd pairing guy behind Quinn Hughes. Maybe this is where you say Willander and a 1st/2nd, or Lekerimaki and a 1st/2nd at the trade deadline.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Antonio »

I would move MP in a heartbeat and I am sure he should generate a solid return. Keeping him is stupid. You don't keep trade assets that are worth something now when they will be mid 30s by the time you are going to be competitive again (BEST case scenario)
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by lemieuxReturns »

FLPensFan wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:18 pm
KG wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:43 pm What do we plan on doing with MP? He's in the last year of his contract, will be 29 when next season ends. I think if the plan is to sign him they should do it if it makes sense long-term.

If he balks then they should trade him now for the best return. Dubas did fine with the Jake return, but if we would have dealt with it in the summer instead of waiting for the deadline we could have netted a lot more.

I think the plan would be to re-sign MP for a modest raise for several years, but we shouldn't wait so late to move him if he rejects the offer.

We could get a real solid return for him to further restock the cupboards.

I don't love that we only have 1 retaining slot left. Retaining on Smith and Petry for this season doesn't help when it comes to moving players for assets. Luckily both of them are off the books next season.
Like Guentzel, I really don't see the point in retaining MP. I think he's the team's best defensive defenseman, but, he'll be 30 when his new contract kicks in. Is this team going to be competing next year? We don't know if it's going to take 1-3 years to do this partial rebuild.

I'd move him at the trade deadline for hopefully something similar to what we got for Guentzel, although, I'd demand a definite 1st in the deal. Maybe a 1st and a high prospect. The problem with moving him now...the teams that are really going to need his services and pay for them...don't have the cap space. The trade deadline at the draft/pre-UFA are the best times to make a trade. Outside of those times, you are limiting the potential suitors in most cases.

And, some of those same teams may not have the cap space to dump salary back to us in return. I'd keep an eye on Vancouver as a potential destination, because they are really lacking a solid 2nd pairing guy behind Quinn Hughes. Maybe this is where you say Willander and a 1st/2nd, or Lekerimaki and a 1st/2nd at the trade deadline.
But there are also some downsides to waiting that you are not mentioning. 1, The player could get injured. If MP gets injured between now and the deadline you might have a smaller or zero return. 2, The player might have a horrible year compared to his year this past season which would reduce his return. 3, Almost every team enters the season thinking they have a chance to win the cup and so, there are more teams willing to give up assets for a solid player like MP vrs about 10 teams that might be willing to trade away assets for MP.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by DelPen »

I think we see how some guys look after camp and preseason to make a decision on Pettersson and if there’s a market now.

Pickering has put the work in to bulk up, could he step into an NHL spot? It’s going to be good he can play in WBS this year but if he impresses early they could easily pull the trigger if a return is really good but it would need to be really, really good where it would be equivalent to the Whitney for Kunitz trade. There’s also Shea, Kral and Ludvig who can play left side with Aho, Griz and Graves.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Cow_Master66 »

My guess is they will hold onto MP and lose him for nothing. Should have dealt him last year but instead wanted to continue the magic playoff run.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by KG »

Cow_Master66 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:27 am My guess is they will hold onto MP and lose him for nothing. Should have dealt him last year but instead wanted to continue the magic playoff run.
Letting MP go for nothing would be horrible asset management. He is one of the few players we have that would have real trade value. I would trade him to the highest bidder personally.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by largegarlic »

Cow_Master66 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:27 am My guess is they will hold onto MP and lose him for nothing. Should have dealt him last year but instead wanted to continue the magic playoff run.
I could see his situation unfolding like Guentzel's...get a sense of what he wants, and if it's not a team-friendly contract, hold onto him to see how the season unfolds and then trade him at the deadline if the Pens are out of it. I would suspect they probably couldn't get a 1st for him in that scenario, but maybe. I would say a 2nd for sure.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

I will preface this by saying, it's probably impossible to beat out a team that recently signed your older brother, but...

Florida just snagged 23 year old, former 8th overall RHD Adam Boqvist for a league minimum deal. He's had some injuries the past few years, but he had 11 goals from the backend a few years ago.

When you want to get younger, you probably need to take some low chance risks on young players that didn't pan out with other teams.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Puck-Lurker »

FLPensFan wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:36 am I will preface this by saying, it's probably impossible to beat out a team that recently signed your older brother, but...

Florida just snagged 23 year old, former 8th overall RHD Adam Boqvist for a league minimum deal. He's had some injuries the past few years, but he had 11 goals from the backend a few years ago.

When you want to get younger, you probably need to take some low chance risks on young players that didn't pan out with other teams.
There were 3-4 players that I would have taken a flier on. Boqvist at minimum I would take in a cold second. Guess we didn't have an interest in acquiring RD (because we have so many!) or we didn't really have a shot and didn't try. Shame..
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Cow_Master66 »

KG wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:33 am
Cow_Master66 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:27 am My guess is they will hold onto MP and lose him for nothing. Should have dealt him last year but instead wanted to continue the magic playoff run.
Letting MP go for nothing would be horrible asset management. He is one of the few players we have that would have real trade value. I would trade him to the highest bidder personally.
I agree, horrible asset management. I was semi- joking only because I don't think we will be in the playoff hunt by the time the deadline rolls around. so I do think they will be forced to make the right decision. As others mentioned, if he gets hurt at the wrong time, they will indeed be screwed. I, for one, don't understand why he is still on this roster.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

Not sure, but I think this happened at midnight: (the site is now offline)

Image
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Puck-Lurker »

FLPensFan wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 1:17 am Not sure, but I think this happened at midnight: (the site is now offline)

Image
Thank you for all the good times Capfriendly, good luck in the future.


And above all F.. you for leaving us this way :D
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by KG »

FLPensFan wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 1:17 am Not sure, but I think this happened at midnight: (the site is now offline)

Image
Stinks! The league should should really have something interactive the fans can use. Bettman is of the believe that fans don't care about players contracts. He's mistaken.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

KG wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:09 am
FLPensFan wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 1:17 am Not sure, but I think this happened at midnight: (the site is now offline)

Image
Stinks! The league should should really have something interactive the fans can use. Bettman is of the believe that fans don't care about players contracts. He's mistaken.
That's partially correct. Bettman doesn't care, but it's moreso because the league is stuck in the 70's and thinks all that contract information should be kept private and not made public. Becauze fanz are stoopid and dey don't need no information. Dey don't need no thought control.... :wink:
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

Just a note or two on CF and other sites:

--CapFriendly had a CapFriendly Depth Chart twitter account. The person that ran that account was not part of the acquisition, and they are now providing similar content from the Twitter handle @NHL_Rosters.

--There's another new site that has been brought up, and while feature-wise it may be behind...it looks pretty slick. Check out benchwarmers.app. They also have a site for reporting bugs and feature requests, found here https://benchwarmers.supahub.com/
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by FLPensFan »

The Athletic recently ranked which teams improved the most this offseason. Penguins came in at 19, with basically a net zero improvement. The main comment...

Technically the Penguins finally improved on Jeff Carter in the bottom six. Technically Kevin Hayes is a sizeable upgrade. Technically.

Perhaps they should’ve aimed higher though as Hayes isn’t a great answer. The downgrade from Reilly Smith to Anthony Beauvillier nullifies whatever advantage is earned on that upgrade.

This probably won’t be a fun season for Sid and friends.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by stonewizard51 »

I'm of the mindset that it'll be a rinse/repeat of the last 5 years
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by dark_forces »

FLPensFan wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:04 am The Athletic recently ranked which teams improved the most this offseason. Penguins came in at 19, with basically a net zero improvement. The main comment...

Technically the Penguins finally improved on Jeff Carter in the bottom six. Technically Kevin Hayes is a sizeable upgrade. Technically.

Perhaps they should’ve aimed higher though as Hayes isn’t a great answer. The downgrade from Reilly Smith to Anthony Beauvillier nullifies whatever advantage is earned on that upgrade.

This probably won’t be a fun season for Sid and friends.
I still believe they'll live/die on PP success. If the PP is top 12-15, they probably are like this past year's Isles or Caps—they get in, but lose in 6 games to their first round opponent.
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Re: 2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

Post by Puck-Lurker »

dark_forces wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:49 pm
FLPensFan wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:04 am The Athletic recently ranked which teams improved the most this offseason. Penguins came in at 19, with basically a net zero improvement. The main comment...

Technically the Penguins finally improved on Jeff Carter in the bottom six. Technically Kevin Hayes is a sizeable upgrade. Technically.

Perhaps they should’ve aimed higher though as Hayes isn’t a great answer. The downgrade from Reilly Smith to Anthony Beauvillier nullifies whatever advantage is earned on that upgrade.

This probably won’t be a fun season for Sid and friends.
I still believe they'll live/die on PP success. If the PP is top 12-15, they probably are like this past year's Isles or Caps—they get in, but lose in 6 games to their first round opponent.
I'm sure we will miss those 13 goals greatly.

Secondary scoring *should* be improved and the PP statistically couldn't be as bad as last year again.

I think it's a wash and that's fine. Bring in the kids and get better 3-5 years from now. Asset gathering is the name of the game.
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