Crosby vs McDavid thoughts and questions

[Antonio]

Say what you want about McDavid but the guy is an insane talent. So, at the end of the day, I'm curious about people's thoughts on who they'd rather have and why? Obviously we all revere Crosby, and rightfully so, but to act like there is just no comparison between them would be silly. Who do you think will be the better point producer over their entire career? Will McDavid keep up the pace into his later years? Which one would you rather have in their prime and why? Which one do you think is overall just the better, more gifted player?

I'm curious to hear thoughts and nuance on opinions between the two. Personally, clearly we have seen McDavid put up just absurd point totals that will likely shatter Sid's already insane career production. I mean, it wouldn't be crazy to think McDavid could hit 2000 points in his career which is just ludicrous. Can he keep it up? Will he drop off massively at some point or will he be able to be Sid-esque and put up 90-100 points even in his late 30s?

Now, Sid has won it all several times and his ability to carry and lead a team with sheer determination is beyond question... does McDavid have that? Is his (so far) lack of winning it all an indictment of his abilities and overall ability to lead a team to championship? Is it something else? Is he rightfully or wrongly seen as less than Sid in that regard with his inability to win it all yet? Would the Pens teams that won it all with Sid have won it all with McDavid instead as often? Less? More?

Sid has and is an all time talent in so many ways just beyond his raw on ice scoring ability... the vision, the drive, the constant desire and ability to improve and refine his game, the all around game, everything. Does McDavid have/not have enough overall that you would prefer one over the other clearly with all factors considered?

Thoughts? Intelligent opinions? Discussion?

Personally I would never have want to replace or have replaced Sid for anyone but it is indisputable that McDavid is just a comically great talent. Any serious hockey fan would have to at least entertain the notion in either direction and have justifications for why one or the other, for sure. So many factors to consider.

[FLPensFan]

This is kind of the new era Gretzky vs Lemieux debate. Looking purely at the offensive numbers, McDavid has a good lead that could put him up in that 2000 point category. I'd also look at the better 1-2 punch, McDavid/Draisaitl vs Crosby/Malkin.

I think McDavid and Draisaitl are both a little better pure goal scorers than Sid and Geno, and the numbers show that. McDavid has 3 40+ goal seasons and 1 season of 64 goals. Draisaitl has 3 50 goal seasons and 2 40 goal seasons. Sid has 1 50 goal season and 2 40 goal seasons. Malkin has 1 50 goal season and 2 40 goal seasons.

But kind of like Gretzky to Lemieux, I think McDavid and Draisaitl play in a more offensive system that helps them elevate their numbers. Sid and Geno are really good, generational players, but I don't know that the Sullivan and Bylsma systems they have played in were built to get the best out of both of those players. I don't think it's as bad as Gretzkey having Kurri, Anderson, Messier, and Tikkanen around him compared to Lemieux's Robbie Brown, Randy Cunneyworth type players early on, but the star power on the wings is something the Penguins have consistently lacked. It was Hossa for a year, it was Kessel for a few years, and it has been Guentzel recently.

The area where I think Crosby still today, and prime level Geno outshine McDavid and Draisaitl is on the defensive side. The 200 foot game. There really aren't good statistical measures to compare the defensive aspect of the game, but I feel Crosby is better there, and Malkin was in his prime.

You can also add in Crosby had to deal with a lockout season and 2-3 years of concussion effects, which hampered his numbers a bit.

McDavid is a Hall of Fame player today, but, I still feel like he needs to be able to win at least one Cup to really get the proper recognition for his career. I think McDavid (if he can get a Cup win or two) will be recognized as the better player when it is all said and done, but it's not a landslide gap or a unanimous decision.

[praxitas]

I will say Sid as well.

Defense / 200 foot game as mentioned above.

Dealt with a lot more over the top physical play and still found a way to win.

Really elevated the games of so-so players be it Dupuis, Kunitz into reliable players. There are others you can add like Sheary and so on. McDavid had a good season with Hyman this year, but Hyman was already a decent player.

One on one, I would go McDavid. Team game, Crosby all the way and I don't think its that close.

[BigMcK]

Stats aside, Sid had Mario as landlord and mentor. That should factor in the equation.

[Daniel]

Say what you want about McDavid but the guy is an insane talent. So, at the end of the day, I'm curious about people's thoughts on who they'd rather have and why? Obviously we all revere Crosby, and rightfully so, but to act like there is just no comparison between them would be silly. Who do you think will be the better point producer over their entire career? Will McDavid keep up the pace into his later years? Which one would you rather have in their prime and why? Which one do you think is overall just the better, more gifted player?

I'm curious to hear thoughts and nuance on opinions between the two. Personally, clearly we have seen McDavid put up just absurd point totals that will likely shatter Sid's already insane career production. I mean, it wouldn't be crazy to think McDavid could hit 2000 points in his career which is just ludicrous. Can he keep it up? Will he drop off massively at some point or will he be able to be Sid-esque and put up 90-100 points even in his late 30s?

Now, Sid has won it all several times and his ability to carry and lead a team with sheer determination is beyond question... does McDavid have that? Is his (so far) lack of winning it all an indictment of his abilities and overall ability to lead a team to championship? Is it something else? Is he rightfully or wrongly seen as less than Sid in that regard with his inability to win it all yet? Would the Pens teams that won it all with Sid have won it all with McDavid instead as often? Less? More?

Sid has and is an all time talent in so many ways just beyond his raw on ice scoring ability... the vision, the drive, the constant desire and ability to improve and refine his game, the all around game, everything. Does McDavid have/not have enough overall that you would prefer one over the other clearly with all factors considered?

Thoughts? Intelligent opinions? Discussion?

Personally I would never have want to replace or have replaced Sid for anyone but it is indisputable that McDavid is just a comically great talent. Any serious hockey fan would have to at least entertain the notion in either direction and have justifications for why one or the other, for sure. So many factors to consider.

I think McDavid is one of those players that tend to drop off when the speed/skill start to diminish compared to Crosby. Crosby has more guile and smarts to adapt as he ages and I'm not sure McDavid can/will be able to do that.

Crosby is like a long distance runner whereas McDavid is more like a thoroughbred. Short distances, McDavid by a mile, long distance is where Crosby has him beat. Since McDavid is still in his prime, we'll have to revisit this discussion in 10 years. McDavid might adapt as his skills diminish, ala Fedorov and Yzerman but I think he'll be more like Pavel Bure. Someone who flames for awhile then we'll see what happen. I don't see him out of the league at 31, because I think he's a far better player, but I don't see him in the league 20 years.

[Antonio]

Interesting thought...although I am sure you mean you don't see him in the league in 10 not 20...hell if he was playing at 47 he would deserve the accolades. I could very easily see that kind of reduction as he ages and yeah, the only true way to know will be when they could both be compared side by side.

[Zalapski33]

McDavid is a rare talent.His speed and overall skating ability are simply one of the best combinations in NHL History.Outstanding vision and brilliant at setting up guys with his passing..He has the benefit of playing in a system that doesn't ask him to pay much attention to defending or physicality.

Crosby might not have the flash of McDavid but he has shown his strength in areas on the Ice that few players ever have.Going into corners to dig out pucks,taking it to the front on the net and both dishing out and receiving punishment.His overall complete game adding in his outstanding leadership and continued competitive desire and high skill level this late in his career are why I'd take him over McDavid.

The one point that never gets any discussion in comparing these 2 All Time Greats is what Crosby had to endure early in his career with the cheap shots he absorbed and the media garbage that he got labeled with.McDavid got none of that-from Day One he was exalted by the Canadian Media as the heir apparent to Gretzky and wasn't going to be subject to anything close to what Crosby faced.

[Antonio]

So....closer comparison...McDavid vs Crosby or McDavid vs Mario? And let me make it VERY VERY CLEAR that I don't mean McDavid is as good as Mario...I think Mario is hands down the greatest to ever play the game, but is it a better discussion to compare McDavid to 66 and not to 87?

[Daniel]

Interesting thought...although I am sure you mean you don't see him in the league in 10 not 20...hell if he was playing at 47 he would deserve the accolades. I could very easily see that kind of reduction as he ages and yeah, the only true way to know will be when they could both be compared side by side.

Total of 20 years. If McDavid is in the NHL at 38 I think he'll be doing the hang around with whichever team has a chance to win the cup, make a PP better, try for that first cup tour.

I don't think you can compare side by side. That would be like comparing Pavel Bure to Mark Messier. Totally different style players.

[Daniel]

So....closer comparison...McDavid vs Crosby or McDavid vs Mario? And let me make it VERY VERY CLEAR that I don't mean McDavid is as good as Mario...I think Mario is hands down the greatest to ever play the game, but is it a better discussion to compare McDavid to 66 and not to 87?

I think you need to think of terms of guys like Pavel Bure. Or another all speed, all scoring, minimal defense kinda guy. Crosby and Mario are more well rounded players than McDavid and neither really compare.

[Zalapski33]

So....closer comparison...McDavid vs Crosby or McDavid vs Mario? And let me make it VERY VERY CLEAR that I don't mean McDavid is as good as Mario...I think Mario is hands down the greatest to ever play the game, but is it a better discussion to compare McDavid to 66 and not to 87?

Here is my "biased"(LOL) comparison of Mario vs McDavid:

-Mario's play away from the puck was unparalleled.He could do more with less puck possession than any player who has ever stepped on the ice IMHO.

-McDavid can break guys down with his speed and ability to change gears.He can get guys to back off.

-Mario could draw guys in and make plays without space.And if got room he could score goals that were head shaking with his uncanny sense to get Goaltenders to commit while he still had the puck on his stick.

-McDavid faces bigger Goalies and has to navigate through defenders who for the most part can skate better and have better equipment to aid them.

-Mario dealt with checkers draped all over him who got away with hooking,holding and trying to physically intimidate him.

-Mario being able to play today with the elimination of the Red Line/2 Line Pass would be something to behold.

Full agreement with You on Mario being the best player to ever play this sport.Gretzky has praised him for his being the best scorer to ever get it done.That is good enough for me.

[FLPensFan]

So....closer comparison...McDavid vs Crosby or McDavid vs Mario? And let me make it VERY VERY CLEAR that I don't mean McDavid is as good as Mario...I think Mario is hands down the greatest to ever play the game, but is it a better discussion to compare McDavid to 66 and not to 87?

Here is my "biased"(LOL) comparison of Mario vs McDavid:

-Mario's play away from the puck was unparalleled.He could do more with less puck possession than any player who has ever stepped on the ice IMHO.

-McDavid can break guys down with his speed and ability to change gears.He can get guys to back off.

-Mario could draw guys in and make plays without space.And if got room he could score goals that were head shaking with his uncanny sense to get Goaltenders to commit while he still had the puck on his stick.

-McDavid faces bigger Goalies and has to navigate through defenders who for the most part can skate better and have better equipment to aid them.

-Mario dealt with checkers draped all over him who got away with hooking,holding and trying to physically intimidate him.

-Mario being able to play today with the elimination of the Red Line/2 Line Pass would be something to behold.

Full agreement with You on Mario being the best player to ever play this sport.Gretzky has praised him for his being the best scorer to ever get it done.That is good enough for me.

I do think Mario is the best pure goal scorer in the history of the NHL. Yes, I know Ovi should pass Gretzky. And Lemieux is further down the list. It is simply because of the amount of games Lemieux missed. Gretzky has a career .6 goals per game; Ovi is around .598. Mario is at .754 goals per game. That's a wide gap. Enough of a gap that, if Lemieux played another 500 games to be on par with Gretzky and Ovechkin, Lemieux's goals per game rate would have him at around 1050 total goals.

The other part of it is...I don't know anyone that could score in as many different ways as Lemieux could. He had a great slap shot. He had a great wrist shot. He could score with ease on a breakaway. He could score with a guy draped on his back. He could score by picking an opening smaller than the puck and finessing the puck through that opening. A PP master. Still holds the record for SHG in a season. Gretzky and Ovi, nor McDavid, do not have that ability.

[Puck-Lurker]

Crosby.

He's just so very well-rounded for his generational talent. Lifts up the play of any wing he plays with.

[RentedMule66]

Crosby all of the Way because of all of those things listed prior plus: I believe he was the only teenager to ever win a scoring title in the 4 major sports and the youngest captain to win the Stanley Cup… and by the way, Mario is better than all of them and it’s not even close.

[KG]

McDavid is the 4th best player of all-time. I don't even think it's arguable.

Wayne, Mario, Orr, McDavid

[flame]

Might be the most talented of all time by time he's done. I've always viewed Mario as the most talented but Gretzky w the best career. It'll be basically impossible to top Wayne's career but man this guy is good. He's the best player I've ever seen in person. His skating ability is unbelievable. Crosby has more accomplishments and I love Sid and I'd hate to say it I think McDavid is better. He has 8 points (4 in each) in back to back finals elimination games. He's favored to win the conn smythe now even if they lose. If they come back and win this series it will be the best playoff performance in NHL history.

[flame]

So....closer comparison...McDavid vs Crosby or McDavid vs Mario? And let me make it VERY VERY CLEAR that I don't mean McDavid is as good as Mario...I think Mario is hands down the greatest to ever play the game, but is it a better discussion to compare McDavid to 66 and not to 87?

Very fair comparison. These two (McDavid and Mario) really might be the two most talented players to ever play the game

[Pens4Life]

McDavid is no.1 player in the world right now and its not even close. He is just unreal, speed, skill, IQ! His points total will be crazy, but to be maybe among top 3 GOATs, he will need a SC!

[lemieuxReturns]

I have zero proof, but it appears as if McDavid may be taking something. No way the league tests him... it would be horrible, but he does have the typical appearance.

[Fast B]

McDavid is the 4th best player of all-time. I don't even think it's arguable.

Wayne, Mario, Orr, McDavid

I'm not even saying you're "wrong" (too early to tell, for me), but the bolded in your post got a chuckle out of me. Like man, is there anything more argued than the Top N lists for whatever sport?

[Cow_Master66]

I have zero proof, but it appears as if McDavid may be taking something. No way the league tests him... it would be horrible, but he does have the typical appearance.

Pretty weird comment dude. Not sure if u were joking or not, but either way.

[lemieuxReturns]

I have zero proof, but it appears as if McDavid may be taking something. No way the league tests him... it would be horrible, but he does have the typical appearance.

Pretty weird comment dude. Not sure if u were joking or not, but either way.

Not joking. I have suspected it all season. His features are changing the same way Sosa and McGwire’s were when they were performing out of this world. He is playing at a level never seen before and he is doing it night after night. He physically doesn’t look the same as he did. Is it so far fetched to believe?

[largegarlic]

Yeah, I think McDavid at his best is better than Crosby at his best. That's not to say that McDavid will have the better overall career. Maybe he'll lose some speed when he gets into his 30s and see his points drop off substantially, or maybe he won't get the Cups like Crosby did, but I think in terms of pure talent, he's better.

That said, to keep my Pens homerism intact, Mario is the most talented player to ever play the game.

[Cow_Master66]

I have zero proof, but it appears as if McDavid may be taking something. No way the league tests him... it would be horrible, but he does have the typical appearance.

Pretty weird comment dude. Not sure if u were joking or not, but either way.

Not joking. I have suspected it all season. His features are changing the same way Sosa and McGwire’s were when they were performing out of this world. He is playing at a level never seen before and he is doing it night after night. He physically doesn’t look the same as he did. Is it so far fetched to believe?

I mean, I'd say it seems like a stretch. I'm sure people could speculate that Crosby is on steroids to be playing at as high a level as he is. Or any player that puts on 20lbs of muscle is on the juice.

I haven't seen any type of speculation out there before reading this (and just did a quick search to see if I missed anything)....I guess, what physically are you talking about? He was lightening fast since before he entered the league as a teenager. In general, he's still pretty slender outside of filling out a bit (which is pretty much par for the course in your early-mid 20s).

[Daniel]

They were talking about how McDavid won the most valuable player on a losing team in juniors and might repeat that in the NHL. At this point and time, that might be the number one difference between him and Crosby. Crosby won his first cup while Malkin won the Conn Smythe. Until McDavid wins a cup, he’ll be a Hall of Fame player with no where near the legacy as Crosby. The top 4 someone brought up before? How many of those players didn’t win a cup.