What do you think the Pens will do with Jake by the trade deadline

[pens_CT]

Taj
@taj1944
Elliotte on Oilers:

If Guentzel is available, my opinion is that's their guy. That's the guy they would like to get.

Doubt he's going to be available, personally...

Here is a story on a possible Guentzel trade to Edmonton

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hock ... s-edmonton

If Edmonton is really adverse to trading Broberg who was drafted 8th overall in 2019, but has done nothing at the NHL level, then I question how serious they are in acquiring Jake.

[BigMcK]

Taj
@taj1944
Elliotte on Oilers:

If Guentzel is available, my opinion is that's their guy. That's the guy they would like to get.

Doubt he's going to be available, personally...

Here is a story on a possible Guentzel trade to Edmonton

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hock ... s-edmonton

If Edmonton is really adverse to trading Broberg who was drafted 8th overall in 2019, but has done nothing at the NHL level, then I question how serious they are in acquiring Jake.

Judging by this comment on their comments section "Buh bye Broberg!", It seems like at least one fan is in favor of the trade.

[pens_CT]

Taj
@taj1944
Elliotte on Oilers:

If Guentzel is available, my opinion is that's their guy. That's the guy they would like to get.

Doubt he's going to be available, personally...

Here is a story on a possible Guentzel trade to Edmonton

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hock ... s-edmonton

If Edmonton is really adverse to trading Broberg who was drafted 8th overall in 2019, but has done nothing at the NHL level, then I question how serious they are in acquiring Jake.

Judging by this comment on their comments section "Buh bye Broberg!", It seems like at least one fan is in favor of the trade.

Yeah, I mean 8th overall and you're not making an impact on the NHL roster four years later? Its not like Edmonton has the 70s Montreal defense corps. ahead of him. The offer would need to be substantial more than just those two assets.

[Guinness]

We're not going to win the trade if we move Jake. That's not me saying we shouldn't do it, but the team we would be dealing with is going to be a Cup contender, which means the 1st coming back will be mid-20's at best. The roster player is not going to be a top 6 forward - why would they trade away a top 6 forward if they're trying to make a run? MAYBE a young but unproven forward, which would be marginally better... The prospect is basically a draft pick - let us hope that our scouting staff have done their work. They're not going to put forward their A prospects - we're going to have to name them.

That's just how business works. I just hope that there are people in the front office who actually understand that.

[Sigwolf]

We're not going to win the trade if we move Jake. That's not me saying we shouldn't do it, but the team we would be dealing with is going to be a Cup contender, which means the 1st coming back will be mid-20's at best. The roster player is not going to be a top 6 forward - why would they trade away a top 6 forward if they're trying to make a run? MAYBE a young but unproven forward, which would be marginally better... The prospect is basically a draft pick - let us hope that our scouting staff have done their work. They're not going to put forward their A prospects - we're going to have to name them.

That's just how business works. I just hope that there are people in the front office who actually understand that.

What will they win if they *don't* trade Jake? Only the most delusional fan thinks they are going all the way this year. It's pretty much established Jake won't re-sign here, Don't trade him so they can still miss the playoffs, maybe squeak in and lose again in the first round, then lose him for nothing?

OMG, the pick they might get is mid-20's at best? Jake himself was a 3rd *round* pick. Alexander Daigle was a #1 overall pick. Patrik Stefan was a #1 overall pick. Nail Yakupov was a #1 overall pick.

Patric Hornqvist was a 7th round, last pick overall.

No pick is a guarantee, regardless of position. A trade may end up getting them nothing in the end. What is guaranteed... Jake will get assets in a trade, and letting him walk for nothing will get them nothing, If he won't sign before the deadline, they need to take the chance that they can get something, whether it works out or not.

[Pens Fans Sweden]

If Guentzel declares that he won't sign an extension with the Penguins, Dubas will probably trade him and get something useful in return, but I'm fairly certain both parties work towards a continuted career in Pittsburgh for #59. Guentzel will sign an extension and stay with Crosby to the end. His contract could be moved down the road.

[KG]

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/shoul ... e-guentzel

Roundtable discussion on what to do with Jake...

[Ericf]

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/shoul ... e-guentzel

Roundtable discussion on what to do with Jake...

And the consensus is we need to sell. Anyone like Dubas who can’t see this is blind. We have been wildly inconsistent all season. Either fire the coach or make some trades if you care about winning. It’s not rocket science

[Daniel]

We're not going to win the trade if we move Jake. That's not me saying we shouldn't do it, but the team we would be dealing with is going to be a Cup contender, which means the 1st coming back will be mid-20's at best. The roster player is not going to be a top 6 forward - why would they trade away a top 6 forward if they're trying to make a run? MAYBE a young but unproven forward, which would be marginally better... The prospect is basically a draft pick - let us hope that our scouting staff have done their work. They're not going to put forward their A prospects - we're going to have to name them.

That's just how business works. I just hope that there are people in the front office who actually understand that.

What will they win if they *don't* trade Jake? Only the most delusional fan thinks they are going all the way this year. It's pretty much established Jake won't re-sign here, Don't trade him so they can still miss the playoffs, maybe squeak in and lose again in the first round, then lose him for nothing?

OMG, the pick they might get is mid-20's at best? Jake himself was a 3rd *round* pick. Alexander Daigle was a #1 overall pick. Patrik Stefan was a #1 overall pick. Nail Yakupov was a #1 overall pick.

Patric Hornqvist was a 7th round, last pick overall.

No pick is a guarantee, regardless of position. A trade may end up getting them nothing in the end. What is guaranteed... Jake will get assets in a trade, and letting him walk for nothing will get them nothing, If he won't sign before the deadline, they need to take the chance that they can get something, whether it works out or not.

Also add in that Jake will likely get a minimum of 3 prospects and if nothing else those 3 will add competition to force someone to get get better.

[Maestro]

If they offer him 80 or 84 over 8 and he hesitates you deal him

[pens_CT]

We're not going to win the trade if we move Jake. That's not me saying we shouldn't do it, but the team we would be dealing with is going to be a Cup contender, which means the 1st coming back will be mid-20's at best. The roster player is not going to be a top 6 forward - why would they trade away a top 6 forward if they're trying to make a run? MAYBE a young but unproven forward, which would be marginally better... The prospect is basically a draft pick - let us hope that our scouting staff have done their work. They're not going to put forward their A prospects - we're going to have to name them.

That's just how business works. I just hope that there are people in the front office who actually understand that.

What will they win if they *don't* trade Jake? Only the most delusional fan thinks they are going all the way this year. It's pretty much established Jake won't re-sign here, Don't trade him so they can still miss the playoffs, maybe squeak in and lose again in the first round, then lose him for nothing?

OMG, the pick they might get is mid-20's at best? Jake himself was a 3rd *round* pick. Alexander Daigle was a #1 overall pick. Patrik Stefan was a #1 overall pick. Nail Yakupov was a #1 overall pick.

Patric Hornqvist was a 7th round, last pick overall.

No pick is a guarantee, regardless of position. A trade may end up getting them nothing in the end. What is guaranteed... Jake will get assets in a trade, and letting him walk for nothing will get them nothing, If he won't sign before the deadline, they need to take the chance that they can get something, whether it works out or not.

Also add in that Jake will likely get a minimum of 3 prospects and if nothing else those 3 will add competition to force someone to get get better.

Or you get the 2024 version of Beech, Sivek and Lupaschuck.

[Daniel]

We're not going to win the trade if we move Jake. That's not me saying we shouldn't do it, but the team we would be dealing with is going to be a Cup contender, which means the 1st coming back will be mid-20's at best. The roster player is not going to be a top 6 forward - why would they trade away a top 6 forward if they're trying to make a run? MAYBE a young but unproven forward, which would be marginally better... The prospect is basically a draft pick - let us hope that our scouting staff have done their work. They're not going to put forward their A prospects - we're going to have to name them.

That's just how business works. I just hope that there are people in the front office who actually understand that.

What will they win if they *don't* trade Jake? Only the most delusional fan thinks they are going all the way this year. It's pretty much established Jake won't re-sign here, Don't trade him so they can still miss the playoffs, maybe squeak in and lose again in the first round, then lose him for nothing?

OMG, the pick they might get is mid-20's at best? Jake himself was a 3rd *round* pick. Alexander Daigle was a #1 overall pick. Patrik Stefan was a #1 overall pick. Nail Yakupov was a #1 overall pick.

Patric Hornqvist was a 7th round, last pick overall.

No pick is a guarantee, regardless of position. A trade may end up getting them nothing in the end. What is guaranteed... Jake will get assets in a trade, and letting him walk for nothing will get them nothing, If he won't sign before the deadline, they need to take the chance that they can get something, whether it works out or not.

Also add in that Jake will likely get a minimum of 3 prospects and if nothing else those 3 will add competition to force someone to get get better.

Or you get the 2024 version of Beech, Sivek and Lupaschuck.

Either way the risk is worth losing him for nothing, which I think is inevitable.

[Guinness]

We're not going to win the trade if we move Jake. That's not me saying we shouldn't do it, but the team we would be dealing with is going to be a Cup contender, which means the 1st coming back will be mid-20's at best. The roster player is not going to be a top 6 forward - why would they trade away a top 6 forward if they're trying to make a run? MAYBE a young but unproven forward, which would be marginally better... The prospect is basically a draft pick - let us hope that our scouting staff have done their work. They're not going to put forward their A prospects - we're going to have to name them.

That's just how business works. I just hope that there are people in the front office who actually understand that.

What will they win if they *don't* trade Jake? Only the most delusional fan thinks they are going all the way this year. It's pretty much established Jake won't re-sign here, Don't trade him so they can still miss the playoffs, maybe squeak in and lose again in the first round, then lose him for nothing?

OMG, the pick they might get is mid-20's at best? Jake himself was a 3rd *round* pick. Alexander Daigle was a #1 overall pick. Patrik Stefan was a #1 overall pick. Nail Yakupov was a #1 overall pick.

Patric Hornqvist was a 7th round, last pick overall.

No pick is a guarantee, regardless of position. A trade may end up getting them nothing in the end. What is guaranteed... Jake will get assets in a trade, and letting him walk for nothing will get them nothing, If he won't sign before the deadline, they need to take the chance that they can get something, whether it works out or not.

Also add in that Jake will likely get a minimum of 3 prospects and if nothing else those 3 will add competition to force someone to get get better.

Or you get the 2024 version of Beech, Sivek and Lupaschuck.

Either way the risk is worth losing him for nothing, which I think is inevitable.

But are we up anything if we do get the 2024 version of Beech, Sivek and Lupaschuk?

[KG]

If they do trade Jake, they can't miss. I would rather go with quality over quantity. Get a top prospect instead of multiple picks. Pens drafting leaves a lot to be desired. I still wouldn't count out Vancouver and Rutherford. They have some nice young pieces that we could certainly use.

[thehockeyguru]

But are we up anything if we do get the 2024 version of Beech, Sivek and Lupaschuk?

Yes, you are that much closer to bottoming out for a top pick.

I don't see any scenario where Guentzel is resigned and this team suddenly becomes relevant. The sooner a rebuild starts the better

[pens_CT]

If they do trade Jake, they can't miss. I would rather go with quality over quantity. Get a top prospect instead of multiple picks. Pens drafting leaves a lot to be desired. I still wouldn't count out Vancouver and Rutherford. They have some nice young pieces that we could certainly use.

The only way you get close to fair value for Jake is the team who trades for him re-signs him. That requires Dubas to allow the new team to talk extension with his agent. As a rental he probably brings you a 1st, a middling prospect, and someone who is making some money to balance out the cap.

[FLPensFan]

If they do trade Jake, they can't miss. I would rather go with quality over quantity. Get a top prospect instead of multiple picks. Pens drafting leaves a lot to be desired. I still wouldn't count out Vancouver and Rutherford. They have some nice young pieces that we could certainly use.

The only way you get close to fair value for Jake is the team who trades for him re-signs him. That requires Dubas to allow the new team to talk extension with his agent. As a rental he probably brings you a 1st, a middling prospect, and someone who is making some money to balance out the cap.

You may be right, but, I still think getting those 3 pieces is better than letting Jake walk away for no assets at the end of the season. This team is in a much different spot than they have been in the past when big free agents have walked. Hossa leaving hurt, but this team was just starting their upswing. Jake walking when this team is on the verge of crashing to the bottom, for one pipe-dream fleeting chance at a run is just very poor asset management. I'd love to see them do it this year, but the chances are very slim. They are a fading team.

In terms of Kris Beech...it sucked that he didn't pan out, but I don't think there were really any signs that he was going to stink. He was being hailed as the next Ron Francis. He was 7th overall in 1999. He had put up a respectable 32 goals and 86 points in the WHL his draft year. By comparison, Pavel Brendl led the WHL that year with 73 goals, 134 points. Brendl was taken 4th overall, and only last 78 games in the NHL before flaming out (Beech played 198).

I had posted somewhere in this thread that just because you draft in the 20s, it doesn't HAVE TO be a miss. There are some good picks available, even in weak drafts, IF YOU HAVE GOOD SCOUTING...which I don't think the Penguins do. There's always the possibility of packaging that pick in a draft day deal for something else as well.

[pens_CT]

If they do trade Jake, they can't miss. I would rather go with quality over quantity. Get a top prospect instead of multiple picks. Pens drafting leaves a lot to be desired. I still wouldn't count out Vancouver and Rutherford. They have some nice young pieces that we could certainly use.

The only way you get close to fair value for Jake is the team who trades for him re-signs him. That requires Dubas to allow the new team to talk extension with his agent. As a rental he probably brings you a 1st, a middling prospect, and someone who is making some money to balance out the cap.

You may be right, but, I still think getting those 3 pieces is better than letting Jake walk away for no assets at the end of the season. This team is in a much different spot than they have been in the past when big free agents have walked. Hossa leaving hurt, but this team was just starting their upswing. Jake walking when this team is on the verge of crashing to the bottom, for one pipe-dream fleeting chance at a run is just very poor asset management. I'd love to see them do it this year, but the chances are very slim. They are a fading team.

In terms of Kris Beech...it sucked that he didn't pan out, but I don't think there were really any signs that he was going to stink. He was being hailed as the next Ron Francis. He was 7th overall in 1999. He had put up a respectable 32 goals and 86 points in the WHL his draft year. By comparison, Pavel Brendl led the WHL that year with 73 goals, 134 points. Brendl was taken 4th overall, and only last 78 games in the NHL before flaming out (Beech played 198).

I had posted somewhere in this thread that just because you draft in the 20s, it doesn't HAVE TO be a miss. There are some good picks available, even in weak drafts, IF YOU HAVE GOOD SCOUTING...which I don't think the Penguins do. There's always the possibility of packaging that pick in a draft day deal for something else as well.

I am not arguing against trading Jake, but I would caution against thinking we're going to acquire multiple pieces to help in a rebuild or retool. Like you mentioned if you have good scouting maybe the 1st round pick turns into a useful asset in 3 or 4 years down the road. Beyond that I wouldn't expect much. I would love to be proven wrong.

[Sigwolf]

Not to mention that it is not even a remotely comparable situation. Jagr was 'dying alive' and asked to be traded. Everyone knew the Pens had to move him (offseason, not trade deadline deal), and there was no way they were going to get value in return. Jake has made no such proclamations, and it would be quite easy to get other teams in a bidding war for his services at the deadline.

Could it end up being nothing of value in return, absolutely... that is true of most trades in the NHL. Will they get absolutely nothing if they hold onto him for a few months for him to walk in the offseason? Without question.

Give him their best offer. If he doesn't sign before the deadline, move him to at least have a chance of some return. Anything else is lunacy.

[Pruezy11881]

Trade Jake, get what you can, before he gets injured and he's worth nothing and potentially lose him for nothing. Asset management...

[Puck-Lurker]

Getting almost nothing in return for Guentzel > getting nothing in return.

It doesn't matter if we can rebuild off the back of a trade, though it'd be nice. Just give us some assets, please. All we'd get for waiting out the season is an empty roster and contract spot.

[lemieuxReturns]

Trade Jake, get what you can, before he gets injured and he's worth nothing and potentially lose him for nothing. Asset management...

It is a good point about possible injury.

[Ericf]

[lemieuxReturns]

The Giroux trade was underwhelming. I hope Dubas does better than that.

[KG]

The Giroux trade was underwhelming. I hope Dubas does better than that.

Tippett is a pretty good player. Dubas is probably looking to get someone cheaper and younger who can slot right in, along with a first. I agree we should go with quality over quantity in any Jake trade.