What do you think the Pens will do with Jake by the trade deadline

[tman1737]

Looks like Vancouver just acquired Lindholm from Calgary for Kuzmenko +

[Wyopen]

Man Calgary got a haul! Jake not going to Vancouver.

[Coffey Break]

Good God almighty - if that is the haul for Elias Lindholm, I can't even imagine what the Pens could get for Jake if they realistically make him a trade target

[FLPensFan]

It's a lot of assets, but Vancouver's prospect pool was on the lower end (24th overall last year). Brzustewicz was their 6th best prospect and Jurmo isn't even on their of top 15 guys. So Calgary got a 1st, a B/C level prospect, a C/D level prospect, and a conditional 4th (I'm assuming this could go higher if Lindholm re-signs).

Guentzel just as a rental should be able to pull down a 1st, A/B level prospect, and another piece pretty easy with that price set...of course, in theory, because Dubas is going to sit on his hands.

[FLPensFan]

Edmonton, Carolina, and Rangers are now my front runners for Guentzel, if Dubas pulls the trigger. My favorite play would be Guentzel for Chytil plus from the Rangers.

[Maestro]

No way they trade him to the Rangers. No way.

[KG]

Here's the actual trade:

David Pagnotta
@TheFourthPeriod
Trade details!

To VAN:
Elias Lindholm

To CGY:
Andrei Kuzmenko
Hunter Brzustewicz
Joni Jurmo
2024 first round pick
2024 condition 4th round pick

Solid haul. Centers always bring back solid returns.

[KG]

Wonder if Allvin/JR offered the same package for Jake. I would have turned it down.

KD told JR that we are signing Jake to 8 year bazillion dollar contract because that's what we do.

[BigMcK]

So the bar is now set.

Dubas now knows the general value of his cards in the game. Time to earn a Penguins fan badge for being a future forward builder instead of holding pat and letting the future slip by.

[lemieuxReturns]

Our best scenario would have been if someone like Edmonton had grabbed Lindhollm. You know JR would have severely overpaid for Jake at that point.

I would say our next best scenario would be if Colorado came in and overpaid for Jake (and then re-signed him)... thinking maybe that would give them an opportunity at Sid the following year.

[KG]

After thinking more of the Lindholm trade, it’s more quantity over quality.

A pick that can be say 28-32 overall, a solid D prospect, Kuzmenko who the Canucks viewed as a cap dump. Another meh prospect and conditional 4th.

It’s not an offer I would have jumped the gun a month ahead of the trade deadline if I was Calgary. A lot of contenders need a center.

I firmly believe that Dubas is going to let the Pens play the next several weeks determine what he will do with Jake.

[lemieuxReturns]

After thinking more of the Lindholm trade, it’s more quantity over quality.

A pick that can be say 28-32 overall, a solid D prospect, Kuzmenko who the Canucks viewed as a cap dump. Another meh prospect and conditional 4th.

It’s not an offer I would have jumped the gun a month ahead of the trade deadline if I was Calgary. A lot of contenders need a center.

I firmly believe that Dubas is going to let the Pens play the next several weeks determine what he will do with Jake.

Even if over the next 2-3 weeks we went on a 10-0 run, I still do not think it makes sense to keep Jake and lose him for nothing. No one is delusional enough to think that by keeping Jake we are legit contenders for the cup this year. Jake is a prime piece to grab some assets with.

[KG]

After thinking more of the Lindholm trade, it’s more quantity over quality.

A pick that can be say 28-32 overall, a solid D prospect, Kuzmenko who the Canucks viewed as a cap dump. Another meh prospect and conditional 4th.

It’s not an offer I would have jumped the gun a month ahead of the trade deadline if I was Calgary. A lot of contenders need a center.

I firmly believe that Dubas is going to let the Pens play the next several weeks determine what he will do with Jake.

Even if over the next 2-3 weeks we went on a 10-0 run, I still do not think it makes sense to keep Jake and lose him for nothing. No one is delusional enough to think that by keeping Jake we are legit contenders for the cup this year. Jake is a prime piece to grab some assets with.

I agree. They need to have resolution before the deadline. Either they are signing him or they are trading him. I wouldn't let it play out and then lose him for nothing. This team is not a use your own rental away from being cup contenders.

[FLPensFan]

After thinking more of the Lindholm trade, it’s more quantity over quality.

A pick that can be say 28-32 overall, a solid D prospect, Kuzmenko who the Canucks viewed as a cap dump. Another meh prospect and conditional 4th.

It’s not an offer I would have jumped the gun a month ahead of the trade deadline if I was Calgary. A lot of contenders need a center.

I firmly believe that Dubas is going to let the Pens play the next several weeks determine what he will do with Jake.

Even if over the next 2-3 weeks we went on a 10-0 run, I still do not think it makes sense to keep Jake and lose him for nothing. No one is delusional enough to think that by keeping Jake we are legit contenders for the cup this year. Jake is a prime piece to grab some assets with.

1000% agree. That's one of my main points of contention. Keeping this year doesn't make us contenders this season. Signing him for 8 years at a high cap hit doesn't make us better contenders in the next 8 years. We'll definitely be more of a fringe playoff team without him, but with the core declining (Crosby not there yet, definitely seeing it in Malkin...unsure on Letang) and surrounded by a bunch of old players, we are absolutely on a downward trend, not an upward trend.

Delusional, pie in the sky thinking/hoping this team can get lucky is not how this organization should be run. This trade deadline will tell us a lot of how things are going to be moving forward. I have a hard time believing a guy like Dubas came here to have FSG standing in the background with a tight grip on what he can do.

[lemieuxReturns]

I know Vancouver just traded away their first round pick, but assuming Jake gets more than Lindholm did I wonder if Vancouver is still a possibility?

Vancouver still has 1.86M in cap space. Hoglander was always rumored to be the 'roster player' to be involved and makes 1.1M. Those two numbers are close enough to the 3M that Jake would cost (assuming the Pens retain 50%). Vancouver did not trade away their top-tier prospects in the Lindholm deal. I wonder if the 2025 1st round pick would be something that Dubas would be agreeable to. Something like:
Hoglander
2025 1st
2025 2nd
Lekkerimäki

[FLPensFan]

I know Vancouver just traded away their first round pick, but assuming Jake gets more than Lindholm did I wonder if Vancouver is still a possibility?

Vancouver still has 1.86M in cap space. Hoglander was always rumored to be the 'roster player' to be involved and makes 1.1M. Those two numbers are close enough to the 3M that Jake would cost (assuming the Pens retain 50%). Vancouver did not trade away their top-tier prospects in the Lindholm deal. I wonder if the 2025 1st round pick would be something that Dubas would be agreeable to. Something like:
Hoglander
2025 1st
2025 2nd
Lekkerimäki

So, my buddy in Vancouver was just saying getting Lindholm likely takes out of Guentzel, but he still wants him. His initial offer/thought was:

2025 1st rounder (lottery protected), Ilya Mikheyev, Podkolzin, and Klimovich/Karlsson

That was a no go for me. Mikheyev is 2 years older than Kuzmenko and doesn't have the same top end. That offer above...there's no premium piece in there that makes the deal worth it. For Guentzel, I would need:

2025 1st protected, Mikheyev (cap purposes), one of Lekkerimaki or Willander, and one of Hoglander or Podkolzin

That's probably what I'd need to see Vancouver in contention. Guentzel >>> Lindholm. He deserves a better haul.

[lemieuxReturns]

i threw a modified version at armchair-GM

[KG]

If we do trade Jake go for quality over quantity. Many of these middling prospects wind up being bottom 6 and bottom pairing d men. Easy to acquire in other words.

If we really do have to trade I think it's important we get some real now talent, but younger and cheaper.

We could use our own Forsberg for Erat trade!
Not a trade like the Hossa trade where we traded what turned out to put quantity over quality.

[largegarlic]

I think the Lindholm makes it less likely the Pens get a good return for Guentzel or maybe even less likely they trade him at all. Vancouver was long rumored as one of the teams most interested, but they've seemingly chosen to spend some of their best assets on Lindholm. As others have pointed out, maybe they could still trade for Guentzel, but they can't offer as much as before.

Furthermore, if Vancouver is out on Guentzel, then there's fewer teams competing for him and less incentive to come up with a deal the Pens can't turn down.

[Wyopen]

I think the Lindholm makes it less likely the Pens get a good return for Guentzel or maybe even less likely they trade him at all. Vancouver was long rumored as one of the teams most interested, but they've seemingly chosen to spend some of their best assets on Lindholm. As others have pointed out, maybe they could still trade for Guentzel, but they can't offer as much as before.

Furthermore, if Vancouver is out on Guentzel, then there's fewer teams competing for him and less incentive to come up with a deal the Pens can't turn down.

Then Guentzel will get exactly what he is supposedly demanding. KD is in a bind.

[Antonio]

Reading the yohe Athletic article was exhausting if he is correct. If his perceptions of the state of things and belief and direction of the organization internally is right, then good lord we are in for a long long time of misery as a fan base. Hopefully he is completely and totally still wrong about everything he wrote.

[KG]

Reading the yohe Athletic article was exhausting if he is correct. If his perceptions of the state of things and belief and direction of the organization internally is right, then good lord we are in for a long long time of misery as a fan base. Hopefully he is completely and totally still wrong about everything he wrote.

Let me guess. They still view the team as a contender??

[FLPensFan]

Reading the yohe Athletic article was exhausting if he is correct. If his perceptions of the state of things and belief and direction of the organization internally is right, then good lord we are in for a long long time of misery as a fan base. Hopefully he is completely and totally still wrong about everything he wrote.

I was arguing/discussion this issue with someone this morning. There are clearly 2 camps of Penguins fans right now...those that want to continue to go for it even if the odds are at like 1% to win a Cup, and those that are ready to retool/rebuild/nuke it.

The majority of ones that want to keep going are afraid of a rebuild, it seems. They want to hold onto something that has clearly past by, and are afraid to be bad for a number of years. They are hanging on to the "we still have Sid, Geno, and Tanger" and that we shouldn't be doing any type of "tanking" or "retooling" with them here.

[KG]

Reading the yohe Athletic article was exhausting if he is correct. If his perceptions of the state of things and belief and direction of the organization internally is right, then good lord we are in for a long long time of misery as a fan base. Hopefully he is completely and totally still wrong about everything he wrote.

I was arguing/discussion this issue with someone this morning. There are clearly 2 camps of Penguins fans right now...those that want to continue to go for it even if the odds are at like 1% to win a Cup, and those that are ready to retool/rebuild/nuke it.

The majority of ones that want to keep going are afraid of a rebuild, it seems. They want to hold onto something that has clearly past by, and are afraid to be bad for a number of years. They are hanging on to the "we still have Sid, Geno, and Tanger" and that we shouldn't be doing any type of "tanking" or "retooling" with them here.

Definitely divided. Media guy Shirey has this to say:

"Danny Shirey
@DannyShireyPGH
The return for Elias Lindholm has a lot of Penguins fans ready to send Jake Guentzel packing.

For me, the return for Lindholm only reinforces that PIT should keep Guentzel.

Perceived value of the assets Lindholm returned is much higher than reality."

To me, some in the media aren't taking into account what if Jake doesn't want to re-sign here?? Just let the season ride out and lose him for nothing? Why? This team isn't the Panthers last season. That's a very convenient example but far from reality.

[FLPensFan]

Reading the yohe Athletic article was exhausting if he is correct. If his perceptions of the state of things and belief and direction of the organization internally is right, then good lord we are in for a long long time of misery as a fan base. Hopefully he is completely and totally still wrong about everything he wrote.

I was arguing/discussion this issue with someone this morning. There are clearly 2 camps of Penguins fans right now...those that want to continue to go for it even if the odds are at like 1% to win a Cup, and those that are ready to retool/rebuild/nuke it.

The majority of ones that want to keep going are afraid of a rebuild, it seems. They want to hold onto something that has clearly past by, and are afraid to be bad for a number of years. They are hanging on to the "we still have Sid, Geno, and Tanger" and that we shouldn't be doing any type of "tanking" or "retooling" with them here.

Definitely divided. Media guy Shirey has this to say:

"Danny Shirey
@DannyShireyPGH
The return for Elias Lindholm has a lot of Penguins fans ready to send Jake Guentzel packing.

For me, the return for Lindholm only reinforces that PIT should keep Guentzel.

Perceived value of the assets Lindholm returned is much higher than reality."

To me, some in the media aren't taking into account what if Jake doesn't want to re-sign here?? Just let the season ride out and lose him for nothing? Why? This team isn't the Panthers last season. That's a very convenient example but far from reality.

Right. To paraphrase some Eminem, they are ready to "take one shot, one opportunity" then potentially let Guentzel and any other potential assets obtained via trade "slip away."

Even if they pass Philly and get 3rd in the Metro, what does anybody see in this team that makes them think they can even win 1 round? Yeah, Sid's been good, Jake's been good, Letang's been good, Pettersson's been good, and we've got some good goaltending from Jarry and Ned...but, it's like, most of those guys have been good as individuals, not all at the same time as a team.

Keeping a guy for "one more unrealistic playoff run" versus getting some potentially useful assets that can help for several years seems like a no-brainer to me. As long as the initial trade "looks fine on paper," even if Dubas traded Guentzel and the high end pieces he got all flamed out, I'd rather he tried and the players bombed than not try and just let Jake walk. That's where I'm at.