Random Penguins Fodder

[Wyopen]

Saw on the TSN Insider video tonight that when someone reached out to Dubas about "seeing where this team is at the All-Star break," Dubas reportedly said that wasn't a hard deadline and he'll continue to evaluate.

I’m sorry, but KD hands are tied by FSG.

[pronovost19]

The Penguins are not going to be in any better position than a Guentzel bidding war at the deadline. This could be great moving forward. Certainly hope they let the SCPlayoff teams battle it out for Jake.

[largegarlic]

There was a pretty good debate on Maddens’s show today between him and Bombulie. Bombulie basically argued for the status quo:

—Keep Sullivan
—Keep Guentzel
—Just trying to surround the core with talent and try to make one more good run in the next 2-3 years

He mostly based this on the positive underlying analytics and the fact that Crosby deserves it.

Madden didn’t argue for completely blowing it up but maybe more serious retooling:

—Trade Guentzel
—Keep Sullivan for now, but fire him in the offseason if they miss the playoffs again
—Ask Crosby what he wants to do at the end of the season—stick it out with the Pens through an uncertain retooling or looking at a trade to a real contender (though now that I type that, trading Crosby would amount to blowing it up)

They both agreed the PP should be blown up and Malkin at least taken off PP1.

[pronovost19]

Issues with these arguments:

1. The status quo argument has been attempted 5 straight years. It has not worked.

2. Why would you ask Sid what he wants to do? He is a player. He is not the GM. He gets no say.

You do what is best for the TEAM and organization, not what is best for individuals.

[FLPensFan]

There was a pretty good debate on Maddens’s show today between him and Bombulie. Bombulie basically argued for the status quo:

—Keep Sullivan
—Keep Guentzel
—Just trying to surround the core with talent and try to make one more good run in the next 2-3 years

He mostly based this on the positive underlying analytics and the fact that Crosby deserves it.

Madden didn’t argue for completely blowing it up but maybe more serious retooling:

—Trade Guentzel
—Keep Sullivan for now, but fire him in the offseason if they miss the playoffs again
—Ask Crosby what he wants to do at the end of the season—stick it out with the Pens through an uncertain retooling or looking at a trade to a real contender (though now that I type that, trading Crosby would amount to blowing it up)

They both agreed the PP should be blown up and Malkin at least taken off PP1.

In regards to the PP, they have the pieces to make a great unit in theory. The problem is, not all of those guys are stars, and they can't get out of their own way and just do it.

-Puustinen on the LW boards, in the OVI spot. He's made a living there in the AHL from that spot.
-Karlsson at the top QB-ing the PP as he has always done.
-Crosby RW boards or down low, whichever suits his skills best.
-Someone like DOC or Guentzel in front of the net. DOC would be more Hornqvist lite type of role, whereas Guentzel is probably second only to Crosby in terms of deflecting pucks on net
-Any other 5th player not Malkin or Letang...probably Rakell as a rover style player or RW boards if Crosby is behind the net.

Put Malkin and Letang on PP2, with Rust, Smith, and Eller. Why is so hard?

In terms of the MM and Bombulie discussion...Madden is the realist and Bombulie wears the Penguin cheerleader outfit. It's been 6 years since our last playoff series win. Some poor goaltending mixed in or not, I don't know any other coach in the league that could be behind the bench with this talented core, and still keep his job after 5 years of failure.

If we haven't learned after 2 years in a row that surrounding your 35 year old core with a bunch more 30-35 year old perimeter players isn't the answer, then there a lot of people in this organization that are Darwin award level stupid.

[largegarlic]

Issues with these arguments:

1. The status quo argument has been attempted 5 straight years. It has not worked.

2. Why would you ask Sid what he wants to do? He is a player. He is not the GM. He gets no say.

You do what is best for the TEAM and organization, not what is best for individuals.

The thing asking Crosby came up, because Bombulie said Crosby would be upset if Guentzel is traded. Madden acknowledged that, and that’s why he ask Crosby after the season what he wants.

That’s weird, but it also kind of makes sense. Crosby will be a UFA in 2025. If he says this summer that he’s definitely not re-signing because he doesn’t want to go through a retooling, then they have to look at trading him, and the window is nailed shut and boarded up. At that point they might as well sell off anyone else with value.

[Maestro]

Status quo, keep the coach who is 5 years past it, trade nobody of note.

Awesome.

[FLPensFan]

Saw on the TSN Insider video tonight that when someone reached out to Dubas about "seeing where this team is at the All-Star break," Dubas reportedly said that wasn't a hard deadline and he'll continue to evaluate.

I’m sorry, but KD hands are tied by FSG.

From what Kingerski is saying, this is the 2nd time Dubas has moved his "deadline." Apparently Dubas originally said the December road trip would give him a good indication of where the team was headed. They lost to Philly, Tampa, and Florida on that 3 game trip.

On December 11th, he changed his tune to say he'd have a good idea by the All-Star break.

Now according to TSN, Dubas has told someone there today that the All-Star break wasn't a hard deadline, and maybe he'll know the direction in the next week or two.

[Daniel]

Saw on the TSN Insider video tonight that when someone reached out to Dubas about "seeing where this team is at the All-Star break," Dubas reportedly said that wasn't a hard deadline and he'll continue to evaluate.

I’m sorry, but KD hands are tied by FSG.

From what Kingerski is saying, this is the 2nd time Dubas has moved his "deadline." Apparently Dubas originally said the December road trip would give him a good indication of where the team was headed. They lost to Philly, Tampa, and Florida on that 3 game trip.

On December 11th, he changed his tune to say he'd have a good idea by the All-Star break.

Now according to TSN, Dubas has told someone there today that the All-Star break wasn't a hard deadline, and maybe he'll know the direction in the next week or two.

De Nile isn't just a river in Egypt. Once Dubas is done with the five stages of grief, perhaps he can get an acceptance but denial is hard to get past.

[pronovost19]

Issues with these arguments:

1. The status quo argument has been attempted 5 straight years. It has not worked.

2. Why would you ask Sid what he wants to do? He is a player. He is not the GM. He gets no say.

You do what is best for the TEAM and organization, not what is best for individuals.

The thing asking Crosby came up, because Bombulie said Crosby would be upset if Guentzel is traded. Madden acknowledged that, and that’s why he ask Crosby after the season what he wants.

That’s weird, but it also kind of makes sense. Crosby will be a UFA in 2025. If he says this summer that he’s definitely not re-signing because he doesn’t want to go through a retooling, then they have to look at trading him, and the window is nailed shut and boarded up. At that point they might as well sell off anyone else with value.

Fair enough.

[KG]

Whoever decided to construct 2 offensive lines and 2 defensive lines when your offensive lines are led by players in their mid to late 30's needs to reassess their strategy!

When this team won cups they won by rolling 4 lines. All 4 lines could score. And this was when Sid and Geno were 8 years younger.

Not sure why they wouldn't try to bring in more depth scoring to help Sid and Geno out, instead now they are relying more on them. Which is the opposite of what you're supposed to do when your best players are close to retirement.

Poor roster construction, poor coaching strategy. Leads to inconsistent results.

[pronovost19]

Whoever decided to construct 2 offensive lines and 2 defensive lines when your offensive lines are led by players in their mid to late 30's needs to reassess their strategy!

When this team won cups they won by rolling 4 lines. All 4 lines could score. And this was when Sid and Geno were 8 years younger.

Not sure why they wouldn't try to bring in more depth scoring to help Sid and Geno out, instead now they are relying more on them. Which is the opposite of what you're supposed to do when your best players are close to retirement.

Poor roster construction, poor coaching strategy. Leads to inconsistent results.

Agreed. The biggest key to success during the cup years was a third line that is consistent. The HBK line and the Stahl-Kennedy-Cooke lines were effective but all of those players were not necessarily effective as individuals - the sum of all the parts was greater than their individual abilities. The hardest thing to do with the cap is to balance what you pay for your top 6 with intelligent and effective ways to construct the 3rd line in a way that the chemistry experiment gains traction. It is a crap shoot when you have too much money tied up in top 6 and defensemen as others have vehemently said in these threads. You can have all the high priced back end guys in the world, but right now the Penguins are about 25 goals under expected goal production based on prime scoring chances, ranking them just ahead of the Sharks. No finishers. Hard to win when you have opportunities to bury pucks and they don’t go in.

[Pens4Life]

It's been 6 years since our last playoff series win. Why are some still cheering for Sullivan to stay for god sake??? He should be gone two years ago...freaking TWO years AGO and he is still here with Reirden and no changes in sight! This is beyond insane...

[100565]

Sullivan should have gone away 4 years ago. Both times this core has experienced an in-season head coaching change great things happened. Sully is a good coach but they are past due for a coaching change. Reirden should also go ASAP.

As far as trades, I would not want to trade for picks. Is it possible to make a hockey trade? Vancouver is prime candidate. They don't get many chances at a cup run so they might want to go for it this year. JR likes defensive depth. Guentzel is a playoff performer who has been there, done that. A player like Jake is exactly what Vancouver needs. If they want to make a run, they gotta give up something more than picks.


Guentzel at 50% $3mil for Hoglander and Podkolzin.

I think the Pens need to add to this, so I added defensive depth.


Guentzel at 50% $3mil
Ruhwedal or Shea $800 or $775k
Ty Smith

for

Hoglander $1.1mil
Podkolzin

vancouver would need to add a cap dump type player to make it work or a third team could retain more on Guentzel.

thoughts?

[Toke]

I like the trade but I'd rather not have any player movement until Sully & Reirden have been shown the door. Otherwise what's the point, any new players will simply be plugged into Sully's antiquated system and be miserable.

[KG]

I like the trade but I'd rather not have any player movement until Sully & Reirden have been shown the door. Otherwise what's the point, any new players will simply be plugged into Sully's antiquated system and be miserable.

Agreed 100%

Listened to DK's podcast today. He said we aren't firing Sullivan...I just don't get how this man walks on water. Good coaches get fired all the time. Quenville won 3 cups in Chicago and was fired (before the scandal came out). Move on already.

[Coffey Break]

New-look lines at practice today:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-White
Puustinen-Eller-Rakell
Harkins-Acciari-Carter

Good God - I'm not sure what plugging 71 in between 2 ham 'n egger bottom-6 plugs is going to achieve. You effectively have one first line, 2 third lines and an AHL-level 4th line. Embarrassing depth and roster construction.

Oh and in case anyone was curious - no changes on the PP units.....I don't have words to describe the current state of this team.

[KG]

New-look lines at practice today:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-White
Puustinen-Eller-Rakell
Harkins-Acciari-Carter

Good God - I'm not sure what plugging 71 in between 2 ham 'n egger bottom-6 plugs is going to achieve. You effectively have one first line, 2 third lines and an AHL-level 4th line. Embarrassing depth and roster construction.

Oh and in case anyone was curious - no changes on the PP units.....I don't have words to describe the current state of this team.

Geno is probably wishing he went to free agency and not sign that deal Hextall gave him. Colin White goes from not making the team to being a top 6 forward. Good stuff there Sully.

No power play changes. SOS. Wild.

[lemieuxReturns]

Sully has been doing this **** to Geno for years. Geno is a saint considering he has never said anything publicly to criticize the level of talent he gets each season.

[Pitts]

New-look lines at practice today:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-White
Puustinen-Eller-Rakell
Harkins-Acciari-Carter

Good God - I'm not sure what plugging 71 in between 2 ham 'n egger bottom-6 plugs is going to achieve. You effectively have one first line, 2 third lines and an AHL-level 4th line. Embarrassing depth and roster construction.

Oh and in case anyone was curious - no changes on the PP units.....I don't have words to describe the current state of this team.

Geno is probably wishing he went to free agency and not sign that deal Hextall gave him. Colin White goes from not making the team to being a top 6 forward. Good stuff there Sully.

No power play changes. SOS. Wild.

I think it is more of a statement directed at Rakell.

[Guinness]

And many of you say that Geno never gets disciplined for his foul-ups!

[Coffey Break]

Sully has been doing this **** to Geno for years. Geno is a saint considering he has never said anything publicly to criticize the level of talent he gets each season.

But according to a certain local radio host, Geno "can never experience an unpleasant moment"

And I'm not making excuses for his play recently, cause he's been bad. But he's also 37 while being straddled with absolute anchors (outside of Smith for about an 8 game stretch). This might be the worst pair of linemates he's ever had (and he's had some bad ones over the years). He's just not at that point anymore where he can elevate poor players around him. The least you can give him is some competent guys to play with.

Puustinen looked his ABSOLUTE best playing with Smith and Malkin while Rust was out. Sullivan hasn't tried that even once since Rust got back in the lineup. How is that possible? But yea, let's promote Colin freakin White who a week ago was playing mop-up duties in the AHL. Gimme a break with this ****

[Guinness]

Sully has been doing this **** to Geno for years. Geno is a saint considering he has never said anything publicly to criticize the level of talent he gets each season.

But according to a certain local radio host, Geno "can never experience an unpleasant moment"

And I'm not making excuses for his play recently, cause he's been bad. But he's also 37 while being straddled with absolute anchors (outside of Smith for about an 8 game stretch). This might be the worst pair of linemates he's ever had (and he's had some bad ones over the years). He's just not at that point anymore where he can elevate poor players around him. The least you can give him is some competent guys to play with.

Puustinen looked his ABSOLUTE best playing with Smith and Malkin while Rust was out. Sullivan hasn't tried that even once since Rust got back in the lineup. How is that possible? But yea, let's promote Colin freakin White who a week ago was playing mop-up duties in the AHL. Gimme a break with this ****

Yup... Sully's management of young players is an absolute drain on the development of this team. I know he is thinking every game about winning the Cup, but you also have to think about the long-term success of the team overall. Puustinen appears to be a diamond in the rough, and he should be cultivated, and given chances... not benched in the 3rd of a close game.

[FLPensFan]

New-look lines at practice today:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-White
Puustinen-Eller-Rakell
Harkins-Acciari-Carter

Good God - I'm not sure what plugging 71 in between 2 ham 'n egger bottom-6 plugs is going to achieve. You effectively have one first line, 2 third lines and an AHL-level 4th line. Embarrassing depth and roster construction.

Oh and in case anyone was curious - no changes on the PP units.....I don't have words to describe the current state of this team.

White has apparently been good on the analytics side, but like Nieto...I haven't been impressed. White hasn't ever really been an everyday player, and although he was a late 1st round pick, he just hasn't shown that type of top end ability.

Maybe this just sounds like questioning everything Sully does at this point...but I would have put Puustinen with Malkin before moving White up to that line. This just seems like desperation and a complete lack of....i don't even know the word to use.

[lemieuxReturns]

…and I would have moved Jake and Rust to Geno’s line and let Sid ‘elevate’ White and DOC. Get two lines going again.