The Official Fire Sullivan & Staff Thread

[Daniel]

This team needs a serious boot in the arse and they don't seem to be responding to Sullivan and his staff at this point. His expiration date has been exceeded anyhow. Probably not a good time to go out and find a decent replacement with solid NHL experience at this point. I say bring up J.D. Forrest and his staff to take over for the rest of the season and hopefully it gives the team a jolt. At least their PP hits 20% of the time with a bunch of AHL ham and eggers.

Sullivan looks more defeated than pissed off:
https://www.nhl.com/penguins/video/post ... 2369267112

I think he's lost this team. The inmates are running the asylum. I don't know if Forrest is a task master or not, but that seems like what they need. Maybe just fresh leadership with a new approach is enough. There's no excuse for this team's performance up till now. Changes are needed.

When a coach is saying things like "we talked about that in the room" and "we talked about that on the bench" then he is telling us they know the problems (that we all see) and they are trying to address them - it's not on a lack of identifying the issues. That sounds a lot like an indirect shot at the players not executing what we are discussing or asking of them.

It's more likely denial that they can't get their point across because they've lost the room. Either way it seems it's become toxic and you can't fire all the player.

[Take the Body Shoot the Puck]

The team has the players it has. There has been lots of turnover the last several years, but the trends are the same and the results are predictable. The only constants are a) the core players and b) the coach. If you want to try and get different results, you either need to trade away the core players, or bring in new coaching staff.

Good coaching is what enables a team to perform better, where the whole performs better than the sum of the parts. Poor coaching is what hinders a team, where the whole performs worse than the sum of the parts. You can't convince me that the Flyers have better players/parts than the Pens, or that the Pens as a whole are playing at or above what their players are capable of.

We need different results, the core isn't getting traded out, and the team isn't playing at or above it's potential. It's time for a new coach.

[Badger Bob]

Bring back MT!! Dey Soff!!


Anyhow, IMO I think many players on this team not named Sid, Geno, Kris, or Erik, just go through the motions thinking that those guys will just carry the team. Maybe it's also a lack of talent as well. Seems like this has been going on for several years now. Is that also coaching? Maybe. But if that is the mindset, it needs to be taken care of. Maybe some moves need to be made on the roster to shake things up and wake people the eff up. However, roster changes haven't really cured the problem up to this point. Also doesn't help that Hextall screwed this team over before Dubas got here.

[Puck-Lurker]

The last few times a coaching change was made, it happened in December. I could be wrong, but I think Sully and Disco were hired in December. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened again. Do I think Sully has lost the team ? Yeah I do but he's not solely responsible. Like the thread title states it's Sully and the Staff. If it happens, they should definitely look outside the organization. Way too much narrow thinking and it's been deeply ingrained for years.

My concern with firing Sully is limited options for a coach. The last time it happened, before Sully took over, they hired MJ after firing Disco. What an absolute trainwreck that experience was.

Johnston was fired 12 december

[Pitts]

Bring back MT!! Dey Soff!!


Anyhow, IMO I think many players on this team not named Sid, Geno, Kris, or Erik, just go through the motions thinking that those guys will just carry the team. Maybe it's also a lack of talent as well. Seems like this has been going on for several years now. Is that also coaching? Maybe. But if that is the mindset, it needs to be taken care of. Maybe some moves need to be made on the roster to shake things up and wake people the eff up. However, roster changes haven't really cured the problem up to this point. Also doesn't help that Hextall screwed this team over before Dubas got here.

DOC: show flashes of talent, looked really good at times with Malkin - just can't seem to put it together consistently. He's young yet and has size and speed. Let's give him some time.

Zohorna - there is a reason he didn't stick with 2 other teams, 3 if you consider his first run with the Pens at his age. Not sure there's much more to get there

Hinostroza, Accari, Nieto - etc all the others - dime a dozen players on every NHL team

Our farm??? LOLOLOLOL -- years of low draft picks and bad drafting have finally caught up to the team

You can keep thinking it's good, but it's all average after the core. Coaching cannot teach talent, drive, commitment, whatever it is.

[Antonio]

Hey is Mike Keenan free/alive still?

DOC had some offensive talent in college and the A if I remember correctly, but just like EK and others, the god genius **** in charge demands that no one just play to their goddamn strengths but insists on rewriting everyone's game, and then not playing them when they can't, or in EKs case, plays them but lowers their effectiveness.

Maybe Z in front of the net on the PP?

[stonewizard51]

The last few times a coaching change was made, it happened in December. I could be wrong, but I think Sully and Disco were hired in December. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened again. Do I think Sully has lost the team ? Yeah I do but he's not solely responsible. Like the thread title states it's Sully and the Staff. If it happens, they should definitely look outside the organization. Way too much narrow thinking and it's been deeply ingrained for years.

My concern with firing Sully is limited options for a coach. The last time it happened, before Sully took over, they hired MJ after firing Disco. What an absolute trainwreck that experience was.

Johnston was fired 12 december

Thanks...I thought it was in December. Guess I should have Googled it. LOLOL

[maopens]

Anyone, no matter a Pens fan or not, would take a power play lineup with Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Karlsson and any 5th stiff you want to name.

It boggles the mind how that group cannot get one in the net out of 30 or so opportunities. Worse, it further boggles the mind how that group is regularly getting outshot, and outscored, while on their power play.

The power play has become the defining characteristic of this team's season and likely has become a cancer of defeat in that locker room.

So, why not bring in a different mind to coach or consult that aspect of the offense? Reirdan has been "in charge" of the power play for years and the power play has been garbage for (at least parts of) years. What does it hurt at this point? They are losing the team and likely the season.

[E-Ramone]

Anyone, no matter a Pens fan or not, would take a power play lineup with Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Karlsson and any 5th stiff you want to name.

It boggles the mind how that group cannot get one in the net out of 30 or so opportunities. Worse, it further boggles the mind how that group is regularly getting outshot, and outscored, while on their power play.

The power play has become the defining characteristic of this team's season and likely has become a cancer of defeat in that locker room.

So, why not bring in a different mind to coach or consult that aspect of the offense? Reirdan has been "in charge" of the power play for years and the power play has been garbage for (at least parts of) years. What does it hurt at this point? They are losing the team and likely the season.

I agree on your thoughts here for sure. So far this season, the team has been pretty good outside of the PP. If the PP were clicking at say 25%, they'd probably easily be in the playoff picture right now. It's crazy when you look at the names of the guys on the first unit like you wrote and see that they're not one of the top units in the league. Something is way off with this group. Whether it's the coaching, strategy, or mindset of the players, it's underachieving at an incredible clip. My opinion would be to either fire Reirden, or give the PP responsibilities to someone else. They HAVE to fix this ASAP. They're wasting a very good team if they don't.

[Badger Bob]

If the PP continues to fail, Reirden will have to be shown the door as a minimum. The question is then, who do you get to replace him at this point? It wouldn't surprise me if Dubas hires a guy that could eventually be a replacement for Sully. Maybe Sully would feel the heat.

[Maestro]

Could Mike Vellucci be granted a test drive?

[DelPen]

Could Mike Vellucci be granted a test drive?

He seems the obvious interim guy provided who he wants as assistants are available. My only concern is what is he doing now for the team? If he has a lot of input over the things that are doing well then he could be good.

[Maestro]

Yeah, it will be interesting to see. I hope they win at least 2 of next 3 but if not Dubas has thrown down the gauntlet. It can't be a trade.
Considering alternatives... if Vellucci whispers the right words in his ear? It fits the modern blueprint of success in-season, in-house hire.

[brwi]

Yeah, it will be interesting to see. I hope they win at least 2 of next 3 but if not Dubas has thrown down the gauntlet. It can't be a trade.
Considering alternatives... if Vellucci whispers the right words in his ear? It fits the modern blueprint of success in-season, in-house hire.

Yeah, and Vellucci has twice been a finalist for NHL HC jobs and he was highly regarded in WBS as a future NHL HC. Makes sense that if a change is made, he takes the job for the rest of the year and then Dubas decides whether he's the guy or look around for someone else. As long as Reirden(who was promoted by Hextall to asst HC last year) goes along with Sullivan, there would a chance for real change.

[Maestro]

And AHL coach of the year with the Checkers.

Big moves were made to win, not for this.

[HellsKitchen7]

I said this last year around this time. I felt the move was to let Sully go around the half way point, that way they would have half of a season to try out an interim coach and a whole off season to figure out who would be permanent. Now the team is another year older, slower, etc..

I saw the article in the Athletic saying that fans calling to fire Sullivan is basically a cop out, but I disagree. We've watched the team play this exact way since '17. Tired, lazy, disinterested play. The difference between then and now is that they were young and extremely talented, so they were able to still be successful six years ago. As each season slips by we have watched them become more and more exposed from age but it has been going on all along.

They basically changed the whole supporting cast this off season, so unless they plan on building a team around Mike Sullivan, then it's time to send him off.

[Maestro]

They're a living nightmare.

[FLPensFan]

***thread bump***

[Badger Bob]

This really looks like the way it ended for Bylsma. Just tossing line changes against the wall and seeing if they stick. Changing them in mid-Game, albeit Rust getting hurt didn't help.

[largegarlic]

Could Mike Vellucci be granted a test drive?

He seems the obvious interim guy provided who he wants as assistants are available. My only concern is what is he doing now for the team? If he has a lot of input over the things that are doing well then he could be good.

Yeah, that's my worry too. What exactly is his role now? I'd give the goalie coach some credit for Jarry and Nedjelkovic's play, but every other facet of the Pens' game right now doesn't seem to reflect well on any assistants.

[FLPensFan]

Could Mike Vellucci be granted a test drive?

He seems the obvious interim guy provided who he wants as assistants are available. My only concern is what is he doing now for the team? If he has a lot of input over the things that are doing well then he could be good.

Yeah, that's my worry too. What exactly is his role now? I'd give the goalie coach some credit for Jarry and Nedjelkovic's play, but every other facet of the Pens' game right now doesn't seem to reflect well on any assistants.

My understanding is Vellucci is the PK guy and has some other responsibilities. Reirden has always been the PP guy and the defenseman whisperer. "Vellucci, 56, has spent the past two seasons as Pittsburgh's assistant coach, overseeing the team's forwards and penalty killing unit. "

Vellucci was also under consideration for several NHL head coaching jobs this summer, so, the time to give him a chance may be now. He got a 2 year contract extension in 2022. If his contract is up at the end of this year, now might be a good time to see how he handles head coaching duties.

Ironically, I mentioned this previously...WBS fans are starting to call for JD Forrest's head, saying the team improved the quality of players in the AHL but the team still stinks. Find it interesting that Forrest running Sullivan's system in the AHL seems to be doing about as well as Sullivan is with it in the NHL.

It's time for a change.

[Cow_Master66]

Anyone, no matter a Pens fan or not, would take a power play lineup with Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Karlsson and any 5th stiff you want to name.

It boggles the mind how that group cannot get one in the net out of 30 or so opportunities. Worse, it further boggles the mind how that group is regularly getting outshot, and outscored, while on their power play.

The power play has become the defining characteristic of this team's season and likely has become a cancer of defeat in that locker room.

So, why not bring in a different mind to coach or consult that aspect of the offense? Reirdan has been "in charge" of the power play for years and the power play has been garbage for (at least parts of) years. What does it hurt at this point? They are losing the team and likely the season.

No teams that play their PP style have been successful since the offensive days of decades ago. The PP coach should have been changed years ago, so no reason to think it will happen anytime soon. At this point, even if a change is made at the assistant level, there's years of bad habits to break.

Anywho, I know I was in the vast minority in the other threads supporting trading the core, but I don't know how anyone thinks a new coach is gonna make a difference. Things would likely improve, and hell they might even make the playoffs...Then what? When taking this position I usually put in the disclaimer that I'm fine if they wanna ride this ship until the wheels fall off so all the good ole boys can finish their careers here, and I'll still stand by that. So long as they don't trade any more futures pretending to be a piece or two away.

Signing Geno and Letang was the wrong move, but only the most glaring in a string of wrong moves. Dubas did a great job getting out of some of the mistakes, but this team is a borderline bubble/fringe playoff team, and it's time to start thinking 2-3 years down the line.

[Badger Bob]

I need to add Mike Tomlin to the thread title

[Daniel]

Could Mike Vellucci be granted a test drive?

He seems the obvious interim guy provided who he wants as assistants are available. My only concern is what is he doing now for the team? If he has a lot of input over the things that are doing well then he could be good.

Yeah, that's my worry too. What exactly is his role now? I'd give the goalie coach some credit for Jarry and Nedjelkovic's play, but every other facet of the Pens' game right now doesn't seem to reflect well on any assistants.

My understanding is Vellucci is the PK guy and has some other responsibilities. Reirden has always been the PP guy and the defenseman whisperer. "Vellucci, 56, has spent the past two seasons as Pittsburgh's assistant coach, overseeing the team's forwards and penalty killing unit. "

Vellucci was also under consideration for several NHL head coaching jobs this summer, so, the time to give him a chance may be now. He got a 2 year contract extension in 2022. If his contract is up at the end of this year, now might be a good time to see how he handles head coaching duties.

Ironically, I mentioned this previously...WBS fans are starting to call for JD Forrest's head, saying the team improved the quality of players in the AHL but the team still stinks. Find it interesting that Forrest running Sullivan's system in the AHL seems to be doing about as well as Sullivan is with it in the NHL.

It's time for a change.

Maybe change to Vellucci, give him and Forrest enough time to change the system and go from there. Essentially have them both as "interim" coaches. I know it's hard to change the system mid season, but I think that's the only way both or either team makes the playoffs. Playing the stale system obviously isn't working for either team.

[ahawk9]

Also, with that No. 1 pick going to San Jose at some point, I'd rather they make a change and squeak into the playoffs (and probably get smoked) this year and get that out of the way. I don't see them being better next season, so if they end up with a No. 9 pick this year and keep it, I'm thinking next year's pick is lottery for sure.