djlm wrote:mikey287 wrote:I've gotten good at defense, as it's the last challenge really. Over the past two or three actual years, I've played nothing but defensive systems. Offense is too easy.
Any defensive tactical tips you care to share? My goal in EHM EA is to have my goalie win an award. Impossible in EHM 2007 for me.
Yes, but only if I can use old posts on the subject and not re-type it haha...obviously, I was having a different conversation in these posts, but the notes still work the same...
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It's not an exact science. You just think the game logically though and piece it together. And then try to make adjustments for what the game doesn't "know"...
Off hand:
- Strong at center. I believe in the three-center model. The center is the forward with the most defensive responsibility in most systems. Strong two-way centermen are a must for me.
- I like to have a nice, mobile defense. Mobility, pokecheck, positioning. Strength and stamina too. When you look in a player search and go to attributes and select "defensive" strength and stamina are there, so the game tells you, right? Stamina is good because you get those long shifts in your own end sometimes, you get those tough changes in the 2nd period - when are the most goals scored in the NHL? Bingo. So you need to be able to finish shifts strong. Strength in front of the net to tie up, wall off, box out, be tidy near the crease.
- That's modern defending in a nutshell. Most goalies will stop the first shot, it's the ones after it that matter. A lot of teams (with the removal of the center line) choose to give lines and protect the rink within the rink. So allow the long shot and collapse now...even fundamentally horrendous goalies like Tim Thomas can notch exorbitant save percentages because the team will take care of you. The game isn't too different in that regard.
- Gotta be smart. Hockey sense is the key to all things. Smarts allows for a lot. It's the single most important trait any player can have. Anticipation is big for me.
- From then on, tactically, you want to do what makes sense, right? Don't necessarily be a "my way, or highway" coach (see: Tortorella in Vancouver), you have to adapt. Got a fast team? Got fast wingers that maybe aren't that great defensively or aren't that smart. Carl Hagelin, Tyler Kennedy, whatever...apply the pressure, tighten the gap, get the forecheck going. These guys like Kennedy, they are just disrupters...you wind them up and put them down and they go at the puck...no think, just go...got slower players? Be smart and passive. Reduce space and then put your enemy in the ground.
- You want to out-number. Even numbers or better favor defense. Out-numbering is a huge advantage. 1-2-2, 1-1-3 type of forecheck, you're tracking above the puck, you're getting back in the right way and you breakout together in transition...
- Turnovers are killers. Gotta be smart with the puck, make it easy to chip pucks out. Defensemen handedness on their strong side at ES. Wingers on their proper side. Varied center handedness so they can win faceoffs on either side of the ice (not that the game allows for this deployment really).
Note: Though, if you watch games, there are still unnerving things that happen. Guys just wander off in to oblivion, they miss obvious things, but over the long haul you get the right mix and the right tactics and your defensive stats go way up. You gotta tinker though. It's not like offense in the game where one size fits most, anyone can score in this game...defending properly is what ticks the game up to "intermediate" skill level, IMO. Challenge yourself to think the game, it's more fun that way for me at least.
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Yeah, all that top portion sounds excellent to me. That's exactly how I felt about it. I can sign Marc Staal 10 years, $1.8 million if I want to (old database) but why would I...that's not any fun really, it's just novice...amateur hour...
So, I feel like the game clues you into more than we think. Defensive attributes are labeled as such in the player/staff search. So I want players that are strong in those if I had the choice. I like smart players by default, so anticipation is big for me.
I don't make too big of a deal about player types. Though, I do anecdotally note that I have trouble with utility forwards for some reason...
Again, you want to make tactics that fit your group. So it's part GMing, part coaching...that's why you're allowed to do both...
So I'm defense in my mentality, and normally I'm tactically defensive, not bludgeoning defensive...I feel like hits are for removing players from the puck and anything else will take you out of position...so aggressive shouldn't be high, plus, I don't want to be taking a lot of penalties either. I always take the least PIMs in the league.
We backcheck hard and keep a tight gap. Tight gap is for quicker teams, quicker players. Kristopher Letang is a good example of this. He can play a tight gap, he can get taken wide, but because he has such great skating and recovery ability, he can still make a play. In the mean time, challenging players is the best way to disrupt them. I'm a nut for proper spacing. Too much space and you have problems. That's both with the puck and without. One-on-one situations and zone structure.
For instance, if you're playing a 1-1-3, or you're playing on the PK a 0-4 (which I even do sometimes, depends on the group) you're going to allow a lot of speed to be build up. You're going to allow an attack with numbers. If you're setup 0-4 on the PK, you're going to get slingshotted every time on the entry I bet. And in real hockey, these things might be effective (well, no "might be", they are...I've used the 1-1-3 before to great success)...however, that assumes robotic defense. And if you've ever watched these games, you know there's nothing robotic about it. Sometimes players just wander off into the abyss...
Plus, the game engine, I'm guessing, was developed before the NHL's more modern means of defending took hold. With the removal of the red line, many teams don't feel as strong of a need to defend lines (as zone entries are easier), so they defend their net. Which is why save pct. is so high now a days, goaltending isn't better, it's just defenses are...
So the 1995 Devils, what did they do? They defended lines. Shots against were bad. Don't allow the zone entry all together. Now, shots are fine because of the proliferation of efficiency goaltending. 45 foot wrist shots will not score. So, allow those, defend the net, defend the rebound, etc. Notice how many fewer battles we see in front of the net today compared to back in the day. Pronger and Tkachuk just wailing on each other in all out war to see who gets to stand nearest to the goalie...now, defensemen line up in front of that guy and try to block the shot or the pass...battling with them just allows a lane to form for a closer shot...
So I take that mentality too...the old school that is...defend lines, shots are bad. So the forecheck is 3-2, the NZ defense is 1-2-2 generally, then collapse in the defensive zone if they get through. Because second chance opportunities are killer...
The look of the spacing on the 3-2 forecheck seemed much more palatable to me than the others...so since I have a more aggressive forecheck, you want tempo to be high...you don't want to go into a full-court press type of style and be drowsy...the thing is I don't want to allow them to gain speed and attack with numbers if I can help it. Hitting is easier or normal depending on the team...most of my guys are not big hitters, so typically easy. Puck pressure is naturally heavy when you have a high tempo, a tight gap, a hard backcheck, and a 3-2 forecheck...I can't imagine it could be anything else in that situation...
Passing/shooting/dumping are all things to do with the puck. Though, I would say turnovers are not a friend of the defensive clubs. Safer passing, heavier shooting and more dumping of the puck would be wise. But again, when you have the puck, these are not defensive characteristics...
Shifts are short. Defense is zone, as man is much harder at the NHL level...man could be used for 4-on-4 situations or while on the power play. Because it makes a little more sense there, but most NHL teams play zone. The Avs played man defense to start the year and the Pepsi Center ran out of red light bulbs by November 12th...
You want to win faceoffs too...defensive zone faceoff wins are like practically erasing a shot per...
I don't really invest too much in line matching because all of my lines play defense. And sometimes line matching can negatively effect a bench or certain players and it makes ice time a little wonky...I'm not against line matching, but sometimes it's disruptive to flow in real life, so I don't use it as much in the game...
And then you want to get the personal tactics involved for the players that you have...if you have a player like Mark Stuart - if he's a lower-end skater - you don't really want a tight gap maybe, maybe you want him to direct players to their impending doom...and Stuart is going to want to hit people, so someone might have to mop up for him (I've seen him paired with Jacob Trouba at times this year), someone smart, positionally aware and a good skater...just like Toby Enstrom would mop up for Dustin Byfuglien's liberal interpretation of defense over the years...
The game doesn't always think correctly. But if you think correctly, you're giving yourself a good base and then you tinker as needed. But it's going to be a little frustrating...it took me many seasons, many many seasons to start to figure out what works...and even then, sometimes you'll get teams or stretches where it just doesn't work...or you'll get what you think is the perfect player for what you're doing and he just doesn't fit...it's a lot of trial and error...a lot of patience is needed. It's a process, like any NHL season, it's a process. If you get bent out of shape over losing three in a row, you're gonna have a bad time...
