James Neal's stats

[DocEmrick]

Hornqvist brings so much more to this team than James Neal ever did. Not saying Neal sucks, but Hornqvist is, by leaps and bounds, a more complete player. His production speaks for itself. Neal does one thing well; shoot the puck from the high slot. Hornqvist does a multitude of things well.

[shmenguin]

I think the trade worked out. Neal's stats this year will continue to have nothing to do with it though.

[Avyran]

Trade still seems to be a success for both teams; also, agree with shmenguin.

[Crankshaft]

I'd have been content if they landed an early draft pick in the trade or a solid prospect to replenish some of the prospects they missed out on with all the draft picks traded in the last few years. The players back weren't ever the issue.

[shafnutz05]

I think the trade worked out. Neal's stats this year will continue to have nothing to do with it though.

Unemployment rates in Pittsburgh have dropped 1.5% since Neal was traded for Hornqvist. Clearly a masterful trade.

[no name]

If Neal was still with us I think he would be on pace for a 40 goal season playing with Geno.

I am glad to sacrifice a few goals having Horney on this team. As said by other posters, he is a much more complete player.

[Jim]

I think the trade worked out. Neal's stats this year will continue to have nothing to do with it though.

Unemployment rates in Pittsburgh have dropped 1.5% since Neal was traded for Hornqvist. Clearly a masterful trade.

That is funny

[Desiato]

Can you imagine the reaction if this trade was reversed? That is, if the Pens acquired a 1+ points per game player who went on to produce 0.56 PPG? He'd be lynched. Preds fans can't be thrilled.

[Jim]

I didn't notice that before last night, Neal had gone 9 games without a point... That will harsh your ride...

[no name]

Can you imagine the reaction if this trade was reversed? That is, if the Pens acquired a 1+ points per game player who went on to produce 0.56 PPG? He'd be lynched. Preds fans can't be thrilled.

Maybe sitting at the top of the NHL is making those fans feel better.

[Crankshaft]

Horny vs Neal this year. Woof.

[bhaw]

That's what this place was missing... more negativity and year old trade debates!

[Jim]

Yeah, only 7 games into the season and he has nearly matched his total output from last year...

[Crankshaft]

Neal 1
Hornqvist 0

[dagny]

[Jim]

That is a big emogi. Is that like Pacman from Pixels?

[Jim]

Neal 1
Hornqvist 0

Hornqvist is a better hockey player than Neal and the Pens won that trade, period. No passing Go!, no collecting $200.

[Humperdink]

Neal 1
Hornqvist 0

Hornqvist is a better hockey player than Neal and the Pens won that trade, period. No passing Go!, no collecting $200.

You are correct, not close. I love Hornqvist, one of the few gladiators on the team.

[DeadPuck]

The Neal trade will go down in Penguins history as a head scratching moment. On top of that, it was stupid. He and Malkin had natrual chemistry, I'm talking St. Louis / Lecavalier mental telepathy type stuff. They knew were each other was on the ice without looking.

Why you would split that up - for Patrick Hornqvist and Nick Spaling is unfathomable.

I'm tired of the Hornqvist apologist on here and I'm not even looking to rehash this debate. Or the debate when I told you all that Malkin and Hornqvist would be garbage together. Look how that has transgressed. Wow, who knew.

The love affair with Hornqvist is completely asinine. He is a glorified grinder with limited vision, puck handling and play making ability - extremely limited. He scored the majority of his goals on tips ins in front of the net. Which is honorable, it's a difficult place to make a living, but it in no way overshadows James Neal's presence - being a threat from everywhere in the offensive zone.

Nor does Hornqvist skating around with wreckless abandon - or trying really hard - overshadow the offense/threat that Neal brought.

Yes, Neal lost his mind occasionally. It was great. The emotion was great and when it happened it was almost always necessary - like when he tried to decaptiate Giroux. The stupid penalty argument is one that is hawked by the Hornqvist apologists.

No longer will we logical penguin fans sit idle while you champion Hornqvist. He's average. Neal is a god damned stud. We gave Neal away - and now we have 1/2 (aside from Spaling; he lasted long) of that trade who can't get a decent shot on net while the other half is (continuing to) getting the back of the Nets dirty. Boom

Where is your god now Hornqvist apologists?

[penny lane]

If I recall many folks were outrage by Neal's playing on the edge of being dirty. The one year - last year, he had a few suspensions. Like all players, goal scorers, streaky. Many trades/moves to be question; I still hate stu barnes for barnaby.

I contend the penguins need a couple players on the edge , who may on occasion scare a player.

[DeadPuck]

Don't even want to hear the dirty argument. Anyone who is outraged by a player like Neal deserves the charmin soft team we currently have - who gets beat up on a nightly basis.

Just because Mario Lemeiux doesn't like physical hockey or players like Adam Graves doesn't mean you don't have to. Mario and his subordinates clearly don't understand the game in it's present state - that or they just don't want to.

Anyway, I would venture to guess the hockey world considers our taint assaulting captain a more dirty player than Neal.

The dirtiest thing Neal ever did was knee Marchand - is that even dirty though? That's the equivalent of someone Mcsorely'ing Sean Avery. Does anyone care that it happened? Is Marchand not out there kneeing people or just being a weasel in general?

Neal gets the business for showing some emotion but we all consider Gary Roberts a folk hero - I bet the 'Neal was dirty' whiners were cheering out of their minds when Roberts suckered Franzen in the side of the head in the 08' SCF (if they were even watching hockey at that point), or the various other instances where Roberts went ape ****.

Or when Crosby jumps a guy off the face-off to engage in a fight that the opposing player didn't even know was happening until it was over.

I'm guessing a lot of people who whine about Neal being dirty weren't around for the 90's or to witness what a player like Stevens, Samuelsson or Tocchet did on an almost nightly basis. The more interesting aspect is Mario was kosher with that type of play when it benefited him (teammates).


Case and point: Stop the boo-hooing about players being dirty. If you took the time - at any point in your life to put on a pair of skates - you would see the game from a different point of view and you would understand how at the drop of a dime - anyone is capable of anything.

You sound like a PETA activist. It's embarrassing and I can promise you no other teams fanbase gets their collective panties in a bunch about anything they deem dirty.

The Penguins aren't the good guys for failing to employ players who play on the edge or over the edge. They are one the only nitwits that don't.

Finally, you (generally speaking) just sound like a ***** when you whine about dirty hockey. Hockey is chaos on ice, 6'2 210 pound men skating around at mach speed with sticks - and a piece of frozen rubber being shot around at 90mph speeds. If you can't handle the nuances that come with that chaos, may I reccomend Major League Soccer or the NBA? Cleveland has a great team right now and it's a two hour drive to catch the finesse you are so desperately seeking.

In summary: While some Penguins fans get "outraged" by our lowly peasant scumbag players being "dirty"... The rest of the league is wishing they had the guy on their team. Additionally, now that Farnham has departed - they now have all of those guys on their team so there's nothing to complain about anymore princesses.

[tfrizz]

The Neal trade will go down in Penguins history as a head scratching moment. On top of that, it was stupid. He and Malkin had natrual chemistry, I'm talking St. Louis / Lecavalier mental telepathy type stuff. They knew were each other was on the ice without looking.

Why you would split that up - for Patrick Hornqvist and Nick Spaling is unfathomable.

I'm tired of the Hornqvist apologist on here and I'm not even looking to rehash this debate. Or the debate when I told you all that Malkin and Hornqvist would be garbage together. Look how that has transgressed. Wow, who knew.

The love affair with Hornqvist is completely asinine. He is a glorified grinder with limited vision, puck handling and play making ability - extremely limited. He scored the majority of his goals on tips ins in front of the net. Which is honorable, it's a difficult place to make a living, but it in no way overshadows James Neal's presence - being a threat from everywhere in the offensive zone.

Nor does Hornqvist skating around with wreckless abandon - or trying really hard - overshadow the offense/threat that Neal brought.

Yes, Neal lost his mind occasionally. It was great. The emotion was great and when it happened it was almost always necessary - like when he tried to decaptiate Giroux. The stupid penalty argument is one that is hawked by the Hornqvist apologists.

No longer will we logical penguin fans sit idle while you champion Hornqvist. He's average. Neal is a god damned stud. We gave Neal away - and now we have 1/2 (aside from Spaling; he lasted long) of that trade who can't get a decent shot on net while the other half is (continuing to) getting the back of the Nets dirty. Boom

Where is your god now Hornqvist apologists?

So you'd rather have just Neal than Kessel + Hornqvist? Because without the Neal trade, we've got neither of those guys and Crosby is still playing with Kunitz & Dupuis on his wings. Hell... without the Neal trade we probably don't have Bonino or Fehr, either.

Hornqvist recorded more goals and more assists than Neal last season despite playing in fewer games. Don't act like he's just been a waste of space with the Penguins - he was absolutely fantastic, even after the entire team's offense dried up, and even playing through broken ribs at the end of the season and in the playoffs. He's the one forward who, night after night, goes out there and gives it his all. On a team plagues with questionable efforts, that's a huge deal.

[DeadPuck]

The Neal trade will go down in Penguins history as a head scratching moment. On top of that, it was stupid. He and Malkin had natrual chemistry, I'm talking St. Louis / Lecavalier mental telepathy type stuff. They knew were each other was on the ice without looking.

Why you would split that up - for Patrick Hornqvist and Nick Spaling is unfathomable.

I'm tired of the Hornqvist apologist on here and I'm not even looking to rehash this debate. Or the debate when I told you all that Malkin and Hornqvist would be garbage together. Look how that has transgressed. Wow, who knew.

The love affair with Hornqvist is completely asinine. He is a glorified grinder with limited vision, puck handling and play making ability - extremely limited. He scored the majority of his goals on tips ins in front of the net. Which is honorable, it's a difficult place to make a living, but it in no way overshadows James Neal's presence - being a threat from everywhere in the offensive zone.

Nor does Hornqvist skating around with wreckless abandon - or trying really hard - overshadow the offense/threat that Neal brought.

Yes, Neal lost his mind occasionally. It was great. The emotion was great and when it happened it was almost always necessary - like when he tried to decaptiate Giroux. The stupid penalty argument is one that is hawked by the Hornqvist apologists.

No longer will we logical penguin fans sit idle while you champion Hornqvist. He's average. Neal is a god damned stud. We gave Neal away - and now we have 1/2 (aside from Spaling; he lasted long) of that trade who can't get a decent shot on net while the other half is (continuing to) getting the back of the Nets dirty. Boom

Where is your god now Hornqvist apologists?

So you'd rather have just Neal than Kessel + Hornqvist? Because without the Neal trade, we've got neither of those guys and Crosby is still playing with Kunitz & Dupuis on his wings. Hell... without the Neal trade we probably don't have Bonino or Fehr, either.

How would we not have Neal?

And to answer your question, even if we couldn't have Neal and Kessel (or half of the team) - is what has Kessel or Hornqvist done lately? What has Neal done? Kessel isn't showing chemistry with anyone...

Chris Kunitz also made the Olypmic squad off the stick of Crosby. Hornqvist scoring more goals last year means nothing when you have an understanding of what kind of players both Neal and Hornqvist are. Neal wasn't playing with a superstar center last year, nor is he this year.

Stop being dramatic. There's a million hypotheticals in your argument

You Hornqvist apologists were quick to raise a new counter argument. Was this one next on the list you guys made up in your weekly conference calls or did you just pick this one at random?

[Jim]

If Sprong can only play RW right now then he should be sent back and play a full year in juniors as a LW to get used to it. Barring a miracle deal, neither Kessel nor Hornqvist is going anywhere (and that includes to the left side).

One thing is for certain; no way Poile would even consider reversing that deal, as you had posited only a few days ago. Neal is on fire with 6 goals, 3 assists, +5 to go with 32 shots while Hornqvist continues to struggle with only 1 measly assist in 8 games while going -4 and putting only 20 shots on goal. Yea, the Real Deal sure would be a godsend on the Pens right now. Rutherford...

They can't send Sprong down as they don't really have any productive wings right now and he has clearly shown that he can compete at the NHL level. Unshackle the kid.

Hornqvist could easily slide down to the third line to make room for the skilled Sprong. Perhaps having skill and youthful exuberance on his line would invigorate the seemingly uninspired, flaccid captain. Hornqvist is going to put his head down and go straight to the net regardless of his center. Try him with Bonino.

Malkin/Kessel
Crosby/Sprong
Bonino/Hornqvist

I think that you got that backwards. I probably said Nashville would not make the Hornqvist/Spaling for Neal deal again. ... however, I do not recall the exact post that you are referring to.

Hornqvist isn't struggling, the entire Pens offense is struggling. But twist it to whatever fits your needs.

Sprong has only played 6 pro games, SIX, and only has 1 assist himself. You go ahead and twist that how you like to say that 1 point for Hornqvist = struggle and belongs on the 3rd line while 6 pro games and 1 point means that Sprong should be top 6.

The lack of chemistry between Hornqvist and Malkin was a huge part of the offense struggling for the first 7 games. Also, the power play has been unproductive with Hornqvist as compared to with Neal.

The logic for moving Sprong up was not based on production. He's been playing 8 or 9 minutes with Ahl'ers and bottom six centers. The logic for moving him up was to play skill with skill and put the grinding, plow to the net guy with a bottom six center. Its worth a look.

Your exact quote was

The deal made sense at the time and it makes sense now. If you ask the two GMs today if they would make the trade again, Rutherford would say yes without pause, I wonder how quickly Poile would say no.

Poile makes that deal for an elite sniper any day. Thanks Rutherford!!

Which means that you got my quote wrong. I did say that Poile would say no doing the trade again, not reversing the trade, but if he could go back and do it again.

Everything that you say that involves the Neal/Hornqvist situation is wrong.

https://youtu.be/ncGHiVKJh0Y?t=6s

[Jim]

If I recall many folks were outrage by Neal's playing on the edge of being dirty. The one year - last year, he had a few suspensions. Like all players, goal scorers, streaky. Many trades/moves to be question; I still hate stu barnes for barnaby.

I contend the penguins need a couple players on the edge , who may on occasion scare a player.

With Neal there were off ice issues as well, which everyone seems to have forgotten about.

The Barnes for Barnaby deal was because Barnes had a bonus laden contract and he got something like a $3M bump if he hit 25 goals, which he was well on pace to do at the time of the trade.