James Neal's stats

Post by **Jim** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:27 am

shafnutz05 wrote:This is the kind of thread /topic that we make fun of other fanbases for obsessing over. Why are we taking delight in Neal's earlier struggles again?

This thread is not really directed at Neal. It is really pure sarcasm directed at the people that were up in arms over Neal being traded away.

pcm · Post by **pcm** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:11 pm

Jim wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:This is the kind of thread /topic that we make fun of other fanbases for obsessing over. Why are we taking delight in Neal's earlier struggles again?
This thread is not really directed at Neal. It is really pure sarcasm directed at the people that were up in arms over Neal being traded away.

Neal's stats make more fun of the people saying Neal is a bum, and would never score 40 goals again without Geno.

Post by **Jim** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:15 pm

I do not remember people calling him a bum, just one-dimensional with a dirty streak, both of which are rather true. He only scored 40 goals once, with Geno, so saying that he would not do it again is a relatively safe statement.

I was happy with the trade when it happened because I like Hornqvist before. So far this season I like him even more and like the trade even more. I thought that the two (Neal and Hornqvist) would finish the season with similar stats to each other (Neal's dropping some and Hornqvist's going up some) on their new teams, I thought about 30g-30a each. Neal is about on par for what I expected (skew to goals), Hornqvist is way above what I was expecting though.

Neal has been involved in two trades that made the Pens better.

Crankshaft · Post by **Crankshaft** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:19 pm

Saying he only did it once is kind of a farce though. He was on a 40 goal pace during the lock out year. It's not his fault they started in January. And then he was injured and suspended last year and was pretty much on a 40 goal/point per game pace last year.

So, for the last 3 years, he's been damn good and he's putting up the same goal scoring pace as he was with Malkin.

Post by **Jim** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:31 pm

That is the problem with going with "on pace for" as a definitive. Neal was on pace for an Adams year earlier (which I had fun with), now not so much. He is a good goal scorer, a very good goal scorer... unfortunately there is more to hockey than just that. Hornqvist is on pace for a 100 point season. Do I think that he will get 100 points, nope.

Crankshaft · Post by **Crankshaft** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:33 pm

Yeah, he's a very very good scorer. There is more to hockey than that. But he was only making $5 million per year. He wasn't paid like a Crosby or Malkin who is asked to be more than just a scorer.

Post by **Jim** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:45 am

Crankshaft wrote:Yeah, he's a very very good scorer. There is more to hockey than that. But he was only making $5 million per year. He wasn't paid like a Crosby or Malkin who is asked to be more than just a scorer.

Yeah... and Neal was replaced with Hornqvist who makes $750K less than Neal but does a lot of those other things and he scores a good bit too. You should always be looking to upgrade your team.

Desiato · Post by **Desiato** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:44 pm

Neal: 22GP, 9G, 5A, 14P
Comeau: 21GP, 8G, 5A, 13P

Post by **DocEmrick** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:10 am

Desiato wrote:Neal: 22GP, 9G, 5A, 14P
Comeau: 21GP, 8G, 5A, 13P

Yeah, but Comeau is one dimensional and can only score from a select few areas of the slot.

Factorial · Post by **Factorial** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:05 pm

Do some people still think this was a bad trade for the Pens?

pcm · Post by **pcm** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:25 pm

Factorial wrote:Do some people still think this was a bad trade for the Pens?

I don't know if anyone really ever thought that. This thread is all about the people who like to kick people when they leave... like Joe Morrow ("if Shero traded him he must suck. Oh look Dallas traded him too, he must really suck.")

meow · Post by **meow** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:31 pm

This is my most hated thread.

Post by **columbia** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:10 pm

pcm wrote:
Factorial wrote:Do some people still think this was a bad trade for the Pens?
I don't know if anyone really ever thought that. This thread is all about the people who like to kick people when they leave... like Joe Morrow ("if Shero traded him he must suck. Oh look Dallas traded him too, he must really suck.")

Shero trading away a former first rounder for Brendan Morrow is far more of a reflection on Shero than Joe Morrow.

mikey287 · Post by **mikey287** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:27 pm

He also got a 3rd back in the deal. For whatever that is worth.

Desiato · Post by **Desiato** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:50 pm

columbia wrote:
pcm wrote:
Factorial wrote:Do some people still think this was a bad trade for the Pens?
I don't know if anyone really ever thought that. This thread is all about the people who like to kick people when they leave... like Joe Morrow ("if Shero traded him he must suck. Oh look Dallas traded him too, he must really suck.")
Shero trading away a former first rounder for Brendan Morrow is far more of a reflection on Shero than Joe Morrow.

Had we won the cup that year, no one would be complaining. It was a recognized gamble that could only be successful with that result. I don't fault Shero for that at all. At the time, the entire hockey world marveled at the juggernaut he had assembled.

Regarding the criticism of this thread by others, I think think this thread is completely fair. Neal's performance this season is obviously interesting to many fans of the Pens. There are a lot of reasons why, but one is that I'm curious about how much of his all-star production was the result of playing on the Pens. It's not to knock him; although he did become a polarizing figure, IMO.

Post by **columbia** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:56 pm

Desiato wrote:
columbia wrote:
pcm wrote:
Factorial wrote:Do some people still think this was a bad trade for the Pens?
I don't know if anyone really ever thought that. This thread is all about the people who like to kick people when they leave... like Joe Morrow ("if Shero traded him he must suck. Oh look Dallas traded him too, he must really suck.")
Shero trading away a former first rounder for Brendan Morrow is far more of a reflection on Shero than Joe Morrow.
Had we won the cup that year, no one would be complaining. It was a recognized gamble that could only be successful with that result. I don't fault Shero for that at all. At the time, the entire hockey world marveled at the juggernaut he had assembled.

Regarding the criticism of this thread by others, I think think this thread is completely fair. Neal's performance this season is obviously interesting to many fans of the Pens. There are a lot of reasons why, but one is that I'm curious about how much of his all-star production was the result of playing on the Pens. It's not to knock him; although he did become a polarizing figure, IMO.

One could interpret my comment in many ways. For example:

1.) If Shero were so willingly able to trade Joe Morrow away, what did that say about his judgement in drafting him. (ANd before some buffoon chimes in about scouting staffs...the GM takes the fall/credit for drafting, so spare us that.)

2.) If Joe Morrow was a good pick, what does that say about Shero's willingness to deal him for a broken down third liner?

3.) Even assuming that the Morrow/Morrow swap and the Iginla trades were perfecto, why in God's name was Bylsma still the coach?

Desiato · Post by **Desiato** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:44 pm

columbia wrote: One could interpret my comment in many ways. For example:

1.) If Shero were so willingly able to trade Joe Morrow away, what did that say about his judgement in drafting him. (ANd before some buffoon chimes in about scouting staffs...the GM takes the fall/credit for drafting, so spare us that.)

2.) If Joe Morrow was a good pick, what does that say about Shero's willingness to deal him for a broken down third liner?

3.) Even assuming that the Morrow/Morrow swap and the Iginla trades were perfecto, why in God's name was Bylsma still the coach?

I think part of Shero's draft strategy was to enable moves such as this. I'm not defending that strategy, but it seems valid to approach drafting purely based on adding the most convertible value.

As Joe Morrow was a late first round pick, I think the price was inline with that we've seen for high profile rentals in the past; which is relative based on the other players available. Iginla was only so affordable because he willed himself to the Pens; thus increasing B. Morrow's trade value.

I liked what B. Morrow brought to the team. I think he was extremely misused in the playoffs. Apparently his knee was injured. It happens. But regardless of my opinion, he still had value at the time. He produced very well in the regular season. It's not necessarily a trade I would have made, but I don't think it was a bad trade.

As for Bylsma, it was obvious to me that after the 2012 humiliation, he had to go. Sticking with Bylsma probably cost Shero his job. I think that decision was a greater factor to the poor development of prospects than his drafting strategy.

Post by **Jim** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:16 am

Sometimes I still think that it was a dream that we had both Iginla and Morrow on this team at the same time, gave up NO NHL roster players. Yet we fizzeled. That lineup should have raised the Cup.

Post by **Gaucho** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:26 am

Mr. Colby · Post by **Mr. Colby** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:48 pm

I mean the bottom 6 forwards consisted of Morrow, Jokinen, Cooke, Kennedy, and Sutter. For some reason Jokinen couldn't get into the lineup. Probably similar reasons Iginla played 2nd line LW.

Unbelievable.

Also Douglas Murray was on D what a pile of suck.

MRandall25 · Post by **MRandall25** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:40 pm

Jokinen hurt his knee Game 1 of the Islanders series (thanks, Marty Reasoner) and was not the same for the rest of the playoffs.

Pavel Bure · Post by **Pavel Bure** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:50 am

Horny with more points in less games and only a couple less goals. Pens fleeced the Preds. FLLLLEEEECCCCCEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. Hail GMJR!

Post by **shmenguin** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Hornqvist has been a joy, but if we're basing the trade on stats, GMJR made a pretty big blunder. Neal was a point per game player here. He got a worse center and his stats dipped. Hornqvist got a better center and still isn't approaching Neal's productivity

Again - hornqvist has been great but you need to find a different way to validate the trade.

Post by **Jim** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:30 pm

There are obvious flaws in comparing stats on different teams straight up, but there is a level of truth to it. I didn't expected Hornqvist on the Pens to out score Neal on the Pens... but I was SUPER psyched when the trade happened. As of today, I would still make that trade 100 times out of 100 though. I am very big on "goals win" but Hornqvist bring so much more (in overall game terms) than Neal does that I love that he is on this team.

bhaw · Post by **bhaw** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:01 pm

All you have to do is watch the games and it's easy to see Hornqvist is the better all around player, which is what we needed. We clearly aren't hurting for goals without Neal. Our goals per game was 2.95 last year and 2.88 this year. A difference of less than 6 goals over an entire season. Coincidentally, that same .07 difference in goals for per game is the improvement in our goals allowed per game.

Also, Hornqvist isn't far off from PPG pace. He's at .8 right now, so even stats wise, it's not really a huge blunder in that vaccuum either.

James Neal's stats

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