How to stop a 2-0 breakway if you're a goalie

[brwi]

Crazy....lol

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/11/03/ ... te-a-save/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[meow]

That takes kicking the net off to a whole new level. Bravo, Leggio.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB ... 8#p2855708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[no name]

That should of been a 5 minute Major "unsportsman like conduct." That is so unsportsman like I think it should of been a 2 on 0 penalty shot. I guess next time I am playing defence and allow a 2 on 0 I will just throw my stick and allow my goalie face a penalty shot that only has about a 33% success rate.

The rules I think need to cover this a penalty shot + a 2 minute delay of game. I think would be a good call, no goalie would trade in a 2 on 0 to allow 2 goals.

[mikey287]

I 100% disagree. If you're in a position to make a play where throwing your stick matters, then it's just a 2-on-1 anyhow...otherwise, they're just gonna score on the 2-on-0 as your stick slides by aimlessly after the puck is in...

I'm also not aware of a 5-minute major for unsportsmanlike conduct being on the books. I believe it comes in 2 and 10 minute varieties, but I don't think there's a 5. Maybe someone can check me on that.

So let me ask this...a few weeks ago Dallas played Philadelphia, Philadelphia dumped it in, it hit a weird spot and bounced in front of an empty net (as Kari Lehtonen was out behind the net to play the puck), Vincent Lecavalier (or whoever it was) has an easy tap in from 15-feet...Trevor Daley comes up and flat out tackles him...and it was a 2-minute minor for holding or whatever...should additional penalties be drummed up for situations like this?

Is there another example where a player is penalized twice for one action? You can get things tacked on (like instigating on to fighting, but that instigating penalty is for instigating a fight, the major is for actually fighting, that's about as close as an example as I can find and it's pushing it...) but is there any real examples of double jeopardy like is being proposed?

I find the disdain for this to be somewhat surprising...

[tfrizz]

I 100% disagree. If you're in a position to make a play where throwing your stick matters, then it's just a 2-on-1 anyhow...otherwise, they're just gonna score on the 2-on-0 as your stick slides by aimlessly after the puck is in...

I'm also not aware of a 5-minute major for unsportsmanlike conduct being on the books. I believe it comes in 2 and 10 minute varieties, but I don't think there's a 5. Maybe someone can check me on that.

So let me ask this...a few weeks ago Dallas played Philadelphia, Philadelphia dumped it in, it hit a weird spot and bounced in front of an empty net (as Kari Lehtonen was out behind the net to play the puck), Vincent Lecavalier (or whoever it was) has an easy tap in from 15-feet...Trevor Daley comes up and flat out tackles him...and it was a 2-minute minor for holding or whatever...should additional penalties be drummed up for situations like this?

Is there another example where a player is penalized twice for one action? You can get things tacked on (like instigating on to fighting, but that instigating penalty is for instigating a fight, the major is for actually fighting, that's about as close as an example as I can find and it's pushing it...) but is there any real examples of double jeopardy like is being proposed?

I find the disdain for this to be somewhat surprising...

It's a 2 minute minor, a 10 minute misconduct, or a game misconduct. There are also clearly defined guidelines for how each penalty can be assessed. The rulebook also addresses the scenario at hand...

Rule 63 - Delaying the Game

63.5 Penalty Shot - If the goal post is deliberately displaced by a goalkeeper or player during the course of a “breakaway,” a penalty shot will be awarded to the non-offending team, which shot shall be taken by the player last in possession of the puck.

[mikey287]

Oh yeah, certainly there's already a rule in place for this...that's one of the reasons I'm confused by the outrage. I know a 2-on-0 is better than a penalty shot, but it's not worth legislating the one-in-a-100K chance of this happening...I mean, ok a 2-on-0 is this new ridiculous set of penalties...so what about 3-on-0? A five minute major for delay of game, an unsportsmanlike minor and a 1-and-1 penalty shot, where if you score on the first one, you get a second...? Like, what are we trying to accomplish...?

Plus, a 2-on-0 isn't a guarantee

[youtube][/youtube]

[tfrizz]

Oh yeah, certainly there's already a rule in place for this...that's one of the reasons I'm confused by the outrage. I know a 2-on-0 is better than a penalty shot, but it's not worth legislating the one-in-a-100K chance of this happening...I mean, ok a 2-on-0 is this new ridiculous set of penalties...so what about 3-on-0? A five minute major for delay of game, an unsportsmanlike minor and a 1-and-1 penalty shot, where if you score on the first one, you get a second...? Like, what are we trying to accomplish...?

Plus, a 2-on-0 isn't a guarantee

[youtube][/youtube]

Maybe they need to institute modified penalty shots? Instead of the puck carrier getting a penalty shot, maybe they get a free 2-on-0? It's a rather big loophole. If you're staring down a 3-on-0, just knock your net off and now you're facing a much more manageable 1-on-0.

From a Pens perspective, why wouldn't Fleury continually knock the net off in these situations? He's the best shootout goalie in the NHL. His chances of stopping a penalty shot are exponentially better than stopping a 2-on-0 or 3-on-0.

[mikey287]

I watch a lot of hockey, tfrizz, and I'm sure you do as well...when's the last time you saw a 3-on-0?

[tfrizz]

I watch a lot of hockey, tfrizz, and I'm sure you do as well...when's the last time you saw a 3-on-0?

At the NHL level? It's been a long time. I have seen the occasional one in junior and university hockey, which I watch a lot of, but it's still a rarity. I actually saw a 4-on-0 in a university game last winter.

But the 3-on-0 example was really just to illustrate the point.

[mikey287]

And I understand that, but are we really going to go through and create a different rule than the rule already in place because some AHL goofball knocked the net off...? This really has to be coming from pretty far out for a goalie to even think about doing that I think...

If it becomes an issue, sure, go for it, change the rule...but some schmuck does it one time, in some other league, I'm not changing anything for that personally...

[dodint]

Wouldn't continual process improvement only help a garage league like the NHL?

[meow]

In my hundreds of games played (probably into the thousands at this point), I can count on one hand the number of 3on0 and 4on0s I have seen. I like to think I'm a pretty fiery competitor - I would never intentionally knock my net off in a situation like this.

[interstorm]

Is there another example where a player is penalized twice for one action? You can get things tacked on (like instigating on to fighting, but that instigating penalty is for instigating a fight, the major is for actually fighting, that's about as close as an example as I can find and it's pushing it...) but is there any real examples of double jeopardy like is being proposed?

Nope - it should only be 1 penalty -- BUT...

...a 2 minute penalty should be a full 2 minutes regardless on whether a goal is scored. The event you described really is a no-brainer -- take the penalty and your team has nothing to lose. If, however, a team could put in multiple goals on the 2 minute man advantage then there is a little more risk involved.

The only (and major) downside I see to making penalties run their full length is that I fear overall league scoring would disproportionally come from power plays. I don't want the measure of the best team to be the one who takes the least penalties -- but if most goals came from that source there would be a (in my mind) negative way on how players/coaches approach the game. In addition, I think there is plenty of critical gaffs by officials -- given that they control who gets a penalty or not, if power plays decide the game then it looks even more so that officials actually do.

The NHL desperately needs to fix even strength scoring (I've posted numerous times about that). If they can find a way to raise that number just a little bit, then I think some options (like full 2 minute penalties to actually deter people from taking penalties and making the on-ice product better) start being a little more realistic.

I've said it before -- I think making the goals larger is the only way to get there. I hate the notion of it because on paper it ruins historical comparison between players of different eras. The truth, though, is that via rule changes, equipment changes and the evolution of both the sport and the players -- you really cannot do that anyway (if you put Gretzky in his prime on the Penguins today, would he get 200 points? if you put Crosby back on the 80's Oilers, would be max out around 120?). Two NHL strikes have shown that die hard fans will keep showing up -- so I think the league needs to do what is best for the product and not necessarily what the longtime followers would like to see. There would be an initial uproar and some moaning for a few months -- but then everyone would move on and the game would be better for it.

[AricM]

Perhaps they could use the new embellishment fines for situations like this. Award a penalty shot and then a 2 minute minor for embellishment.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

[youtube][/youtube]

depressing to think that these are professionals.


god that was so terribly executed.

[dodint]

Letangesque. Clear shot on net? *brainlock*

[mikey287]

AHL changed the rule. What a joke.

[dodint]

What's the change?

[meow]

No more fun.

[meow]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 23m23 minutes ago
AHL rule change. Gm Misconduct to offending goalie, penalty shot can be taken by anyone on ice, and replacement goalie faces the shot.

Obviously, this AHL rule amendment comes in reaction to Leggio pushing net off last wknd to avoid 2 on 0. #tsn

Adding details to the AHL rule amendment. The captain of the non-offending team will select the player who takes penalty shot...

[dodint]

I'm happy with that. As I said, it's clever but not sportsmanlike.

[count2infinity]

AHL changed the rule. What a joke.

were you in favor of the Avery rule?

[mikey287]

AHL changed the rule. What a joke.

were you in favor of the Avery rule?

It's funny. I had thought exactly of that when "defending" this (and by "defending" I mean, it is fairly punished in my opinion...unless it becomes an epidemic, which it can't). And I'm board with the Avery rule. I don't think you should be allowed to turn and wave things in front of the goalie's face...I find that to be unsportsmanlike. I find this to be gamemanship. Can't explain why I feel that way. One, I find to be cheap, petty, schoolboy nonsense...the net dislodge thing I find to be more strategic...that's the best I can do. But superficially, the logic is ripe for the picking I must admit...I am extremely circumstantial when it comes to my decision making...

[count2infinity]

yeah... i don't follow the logic of one being unsportsmanlike, and the other just being gamesmanship. both seem unsportsmanlike to me.