Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[slappybrown]

The folks making it their life's mission to exonerate or defend Paterno aside...

It seems one can't even rationally discuss details that may reflect positively on Paterno without being stamped with a label of "apologist," "Paterno wacko," or "Joe-bot."

Just as Paterno's stauchest defenders should be prepared to face any emerging facts that put Paterno is a bad light, the media mob and frothing masses should be prepared to face any emerging facts that exonerate him.

What mob? What frothing masses? No one cares. This forum is filled with college football fans, and if it weren't for rel and SDD, this thread would be on page 10 by now. No one except Penn State people cares anymore. Even the lifting of sanctions story lasted a total of one day. If people on LGP, or elsewhere, want to keep this in the public consciousness in some misguided attempt to "clear" the names of Paterno and others, go nuts I guess, but IMO, to most everyone else, it comes off as bizarre.

[skullman80]

The folks making it their life's mission to exonerate or defend Paterno aside...

It seems one can't even rationally discuss details that may reflect positively on Paterno without being stamped with a label of "apologist," "Paterno wacko," or "Joe-bot."

Just as Paterno's stauchest defenders should be prepared to face any emerging facts that put Paterno is a bad light, the media mob and frothing masses should be prepared to face any emerging facts that exonerate him.

What mob? What frothing masses? No one cares. This forum is filled with college football fans, and if it weren't for rel and SDD, this thread would be on page 10 by now. No one except Penn State people cares anymore. Even the lifting of sanctions story lasted a total of one day. If people on LGP, or elsewhere, want to keep this in the public consciousness in some misguided attempt to "clear" the names of Paterno and others, go nuts I guess, but IMO, to most everyone else, it comes off as bizarre.

Slappy summed it up pretty perfectly.

[columbia]

I don't think anyone here has negatively commented on the scholarship and bowl eligibility issues, for example.
A little sooner than expected, but that was going to happen. I think we can assume that Mitchell is acting as an honest broker and that was an ok decision.

But then you read tin foil comments about how the news was intentionally buried behind the Rice story and you just shake your head and wonder. It's that kind of thing that perpetuates "the story."

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

I don't think anyone here has negatively commented on the scholarship and bowl eligibility issues, for example.
A little sooner than expected, but that was going to happen. I think we can assume that Mitchell is acting as an honest broker and that was an ok decision.

But then you read tin foil comments about how the news was intentionally buried behind the Rice story and you just shake your head and wonder. It's that kind of thing that perpetuates "the story."

I don't see that as tin foil at all. Not saying its true, and quite honestly I could care less if they did, but high level stories like these its a very common play to release the news around a higher recent story to bury it. It's PR 101.

Regardless I agree with other posters. Small sample size but the only people I know that still care to debate are people trying desperately to prove Paterno is innocent.

[Shyster]

I don't understand criticizing Paterno's family and friends for defending him; I think most families would do the same, especially given the gravity of the accusations. I may not join them, but I certainly don't begrudge them.

I certainly understand a defense from family and friends. I don't understand a similar reaction from people outside that circle. For example, two of the principals behind framingpaterno.com didn't go to Penn State and had no relationship with Paterno or Penn State.

[Factorial]

As someone else said, they want the wins and statue back.

[Lt. Dish]

The folks making it their life's mission to exonerate or defend Paterno aside...

It seems one can't even rationally discuss details that may reflect positively on Paterno without being stamped with a label of "apologist," "Paterno wacko," or "Joe-bot."

Just as Paterno's stauchest defenders should be prepared to face any emerging facts that put Paterno is a bad light, the media mob and frothing masses should be prepared to face any emerging facts that exonerate him.

What mob? What frothing masses? No one cares. This forum is filled with college football fans, and if it weren't for rel and SDD, this thread would be on page 10 by now. No one except Penn State people cares anymore. Even the lifting of sanctions story lasted a total of one day. If people on LGP, or elsewhere, want to keep this in the public consciousness in some misguided attempt to "clear" the names of Paterno and others, go nuts I guess, but IMO, to most everyone else, it comes off as bizarre.

Slappy summed it up pretty perfectly.

Often slappy does, but not quite here.

slappy, I don't quite agree that no one cares. Consider the larger issue. Many seem to be unable to view aspects of the scandal, aftermath, and the players in the saga discretely. The horrific nature of the crime permeates all aspects. To some (albeit not entirely bright people), the NCAA lifting the sanctions was tantamount to putting money and "saving the B1G" over child rape. Child rape is less of an offense than what USC did! What kind of message does this send? They should've gotten the death penalty! Lifting the sanctions was wrong because it was a football issue! The PSU students celebrating the end of the sanctions and chanting show that they still don't get it! In the broader sense, and given the egregiousness of the larger issue, yes, since the sanctions were lifted, the volume has risen again. (Maybe you don't hear it because you don't care. It's OK not to care!) If PSU gets into a bowl, then we'll probably see a spike again. I don't find that surprising at all. Paterno is symbolic in this, and for many, the lifting of sanctions means turning on the AC in Paterno's fiery corner of Hell.

But, if we're talking about the specific aspect of exonerating Paterno, then, yes, I do agree with slappy. I don't believe that many beyond his family, friends, and fervent supporters think about it much (although how do we know one way or the other). Of course not everyone cares about Joe Paterno.

I don't see why it's surprising that this thread is still alive, because the story is. I also don't see why it's surprising that Penn Staters are keeping it alive, as it's pertinent to us. Barring any reason to lock it, this thread could go on as long as there are Penn Staters on LGP and the saga unfolds--at least until all of the trials are done and details emerge. SDD and relantel are following it closely and provide updates--a good thing, imo. I, for one, appreciate it.

The thread is also full of posters who offer other perspectives--also a good thing. I would never say, "If you don't care, then ignore the thread," because everyone's opinions--Penn Staters' and non-Penn Staters'--should be welcome. But I don't feel it's fair to tell Penn Staters that we're all part of a cult and we're all wrong to care about what happens--and that includes whether or not Paterno is exonerated.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

The folks making it their life's mission to exonerate or defend Paterno aside...

It seems one can't even rationally discuss details that may reflect positively on Paterno without being stamped with a label of "apologist," "Paterno wacko," or "Joe-bot."

Just as Paterno's stauchest defenders should be prepared to face any emerging facts that put Paterno is a bad light, the media mob and frothing masses should be prepared to face any emerging facts that exonerate him.

What mob? What frothing masses? No one cares. This forum is filled with college football fans, and if it weren't for rel and SDD, this thread would be on page 10 by now. No one except Penn State people cares anymore. Even the lifting of sanctions story lasted a total of one day. If people on LGP, or elsewhere, want to keep this in the public consciousness in some misguided attempt to "clear" the names of Paterno and others, go nuts I guess, but IMO, to most everyone else, it comes off as bizarre.

Slappy summed it up pretty perfectly.

Often slappy does, but not quite here.

slappy, I don't quite agree that no one cares. Consider the larger issue. Many seem to be unable to view aspects of the scandal, aftermath, and the players in the saga discretely. The horrific nature of the crime permeates all aspects. To some (albeit not entirely bright people), the NCAA lifting the sanctions was tantamount to putting money and "saving the B1G" over child rape. Child rape is less of an offense than what USC did! What kind of message does this send? They should've gotten the death penalty! Lifting the sanctions was wrong because it was a football issue! The PSU students celebrating the end of the sanctions and chanting show that they still don't get it! In the broader sense, and given the egregiousness of the larger issue, yes, since the sanctions were lifted, the volume has risen again. (Maybe you don't hear it because you don't care. It's OK not to care!) If PSU gets into a bowl, then we'll probably see a spike again. I don't find that surprising at all. Paterno is symbolic in this, and for many, the lifting of sanctions means turning on the AC in Paterno's fiery corner of Hell.

But, if we're talking about the specific aspect of exonerating Paterno, then, yes, I do agree with slappy. I don't believe that many beyond his family, friends, and fervent supporters think about it much (although how do we know one way or the other). Of course not everyone cares about Joe Paterno.

I don't see why it's surprising that this thread is still alive, because the story is. I also don't see why it's surprising that Penn Staters are keeping it alive, as it's pertinent to us. Barring any reason to lock it, this thread could go on as long as there are Penn Staters on LGP and the saga unfolds--at least until all of the trials are done and details emerge. SDD and relantel are following it closely and provide updates--a good thing, imo. I, for one, appreciate it.

The thread is also full of posters who offer other perspectives--also a good thing. I would never say, "If you don't care, then ignore the thread," because everyone's opinions--Penn Staters' and non-Penn Staters'--should be welcome. But I don't feel it's fair to tell Penn Staters that we're all part of a cult and we're all wrong to care about what happens--and that includes whether or not Paterno is exonerated.

Well said. I do realize that I've allowed myself to be goaded until arguments and others I've started myself. I'll try just to provide updates from here on out.

[tifosi77]

To be honest, I think at least some of it is a desire on the part of the defenders to ensure their own clarity of conscience.

Pretty much everyone knows a bit of my story. I'm from Altoona, born and raised. On my hooky days, we'd go to State College. Paterno was a huge figure in the community and a presence in my life practically from birth. I grew up hearing nothing but good and even great things about him. When I went to Penn State, I quickly learned that just about everyone had a 'Joe story'. I shared mine here before, but it was hardly unique or exceptional. Plus, my time at PSU coincided with a period when the football team was still a national powerhouse (I think it may have been the last time they had a #1 ranking), so there was plenty of chest puffing.

There was an immense pride to be taken at being included that environment. And, consequently, there has been an equally immense sense of frustration and sadness at the thought of it being a charade. I don't want to believe that I got taken, that the man about whom there was much greatness was actually a petty control freak on an ego bender. So when Penn Staters get snarked off about this case, I think a good deal of it is rooted in a personal sense of remorse over the idea of being had.

YMMY, of course. But that's kind of where I'm at with all this.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

http://www.centredaily.com/2014/09/11/4 ... nsent.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some further details about today's rulings. Reading the tea leaves, the NCAA is going to lose if this proceeds to trial.

This is my favorite part of the article:

“To claim the plaintiffs do not have standing to bring suit against NCAA for not following their own rules because NCAA did not follow their own rules is circuitous logic, which the court finds to be contrary to the interest of justice,” the documents claim.

[Lt. Dish]

I don't understand criticizing Paterno's family and friends for defending him; I think most families would do the same, especially given the gravity of the accusations. I may not join them, but I certainly don't begrudge them.

I certainly understand a defense from family and friends. I don't understand a similar reaction from people outside that circle. For example, two of the principals behind framingpaterno.com didn't go to Penn State and had no relationship with Paterno or Penn State.

I think it has a lot to do with the psychology of association and cognitive dissonance, tbh. It's unfair to generalize, so I'm not, but I think some outside the circle want more than anything to see Paterno exonerated because, if their faith (in him, in themselves, and in their judgment in whom they elect to put on a pedestal) is shaken, then they would want it to be restored. I don't think it makes these folks crazy.

Edit: See tif's post above.

I think it's also reasonable to consider that those behind framingpaterno who aren't associated with him or PSU may have simply taken on the cause out of principle--they see a wrong, and they want to right it. Perhaps they feel they're the right people to do it because they have no bias or allegiance.

[Lt. Dish]

I don't think anyone here has negatively commented on the scholarship and bowl eligibility issues, for example.
A little sooner than expected, but that was going to happen. I think we can assume that Mitchell is acting as an honest broker and that was an ok decision.

But then you read tin foil comments about how the news was intentionally buried behind the Rice story and you just shake your head and wonder. It's that kind of thing that perpetuates "the story."

I don't see that as tin foil at all. Not saying its true, and quite honestly I could care less if they did, but high level stories like these its a very common play to release the news around a higher recent story to bury it. It's PR 101.

Regardless I agree with other posters. Small sample size but the only people I know that still care to debate are people trying desperately to prove Paterno is innocent.

I look at it this way: If he's innocent, then great, and I'm happy for his family, his friends, for others whom it means much, and for the University. If he isn't, well then that's that. The facts will determine it.

But I think many Penn Staters aren't concerned with Paterno as much as they're a bit tired of hearing a place that means so much to them dragged down constantly and with such vitriol by some who know little to nothing about the place. I do think it's really that simple. I didn't go there for the football culture, and I don't know anyone who did. I had roommates and friends there who hated or had zero interest in football and never went to a single game. It's a huge part of the fun and the experience for many, but it's not everything to all.

[Factorial]

But I think many Penn Staters aren't concerned with Paterno as much as they're a bit tired of hearing a place that means so much to them dragged down constantly and with such vitriol by some who know little to nothing about the place. I do think it's really that simple. I didn't go there for the football culture, and I don't know anyone who did. I had roommates and friends there who hated or had zero interest in football and never went to a single game. It's a huge part of the fun and the experience for many, but it's not everything to all.

Did we know each other at PSU?

[Shyster]

Some further details about today's rulings. Reading the tea leaves, the NCAA is going to lose if this proceeds to trial.

It sounds like this just a decision on the NCAA’s preliminary objections under Rule 1028. That is not a decision on the merits of the plaintiff’s case.

[Lt. Dish]

But I think many Penn Staters aren't concerned with Paterno as much as they're a bit tired of hearing a place that means so much to them dragged down constantly and with such vitriol by some who know little to nothing about the place. I do think it's really that simple. I didn't go there for the football culture, and I don't know anyone who did. I had roommates and friends there who hated or had zero interest in football and never went to a single game. It's a huge part of the fun and the experience for many, but it's not everything to all.

Did we know each other at PSU?

Give me more information. Let me know if I have to allow PMs.

I, on the other hand did go to games. But I was never above occasionally selling my student game pass for bar money. Desperate times and all that...

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Judge Orders Response to Spanier Demand for Email Records

http://www.statecollege.com/mobile/news ... s,1460805/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[relantel]

Some further details about today's rulings. Reading the tea leaves, the NCAA is going to lose if this proceeds to trial.

It sounds like this just a decision on the NCAA’s preliminary objections under Rule 1028. That is not a decision on the merits of the plaintiff’s case.

I know better than to read tea leaves.

This was an order addressing the preliminary objections of the NCAA and Penn State. Most objections were overruled, allowing discovery. The big loss for the plantiffs was the gag order on any discovered items, even non-confidential items. Matters the NCAA or PSU sought to have dismissed the Judge thought a jury should decide. The few areas that were decided in PSU's favor gave the Plantiffs leave to file a second amended complaint within 30 days, so they yet be alive. And the gag order is an attempt to not pollute the jury pool any further than it might already have been, so it's understandable. Though a similar gag order existed in the Criminal trials (or may still exist seeing as the administrators are still awaiting trial).

It's big for the plaintiffs in that it allows discovery, and the direct challenging of the Consent Decree at trial. But it was NOT on the merits and it would be a disservice to assume so.

[tifosi77]

But I was never above occasionally selling my student game pass for bar money. Desperate times and all that...

Holy crikey, I was there the first year in the Big 10. I know people who made rent money selling their student tickets to the Ohio State game and the Michigan game the next year. Student tickets!

That McDonald's on College Ave down past McClanahan's use to be quite the trading post on Saturday mornings.....

[relantel]

But I was never above occasionally selling my student game pass for bar money. Desperate times and all that...

Holy crikey, I was there the first year in the Big 10. I know people who made rent money selling their student tickets to the Ohio State game and the Michigan game the next year. Student tickets!

That McDonald's on College Ave down past McClanahan's use to be quite the trading post on Saturday mornings.....

That first year of the Big 10 was the first year of the individual game coupons. Before it was a single ticket that was punched six times. A lot harder to sell games, as you had to be able to trust them to give your ticket back.

(I missed the 1994 season despite being at every game - was working a concession stand that season fundraising...

[Lt. Dish]

But I was never above occasionally selling my student game pass for bar money. Desperate times and all that...

Holy crikey, I was there the first year in the Big 10. I know people who made rent money selling their student tickets to the Ohio State game and the Michigan game the next year. Student tickets!

That McDonald's on College Ave down past McClanahan's use to be quite the trading post on Saturday mornings.....

Even in the late '80s, a student pass to use for a game vs. WVU, Syracuse, or Pitt would go for $30-40. Domers, though, up to $50.

[Lt. Dish]

But I was never above occasionally selling my student game pass for bar money. Desperate times and all that...

Holy crikey, I was there the first year in the Big 10. I know people who made rent money selling their student tickets to the Ohio State game and the Michigan game the next year. Student tickets!

That McDonald's on College Ave down past McClanahan's use to be quite the trading post on Saturday mornings.....

That first year of the Big 10 was the first year of the individual game coupons. Before it was a single ticket that was punched six times. A lot harder to sell games, as you had to be able to trust them to give your ticket back.

(I missed the 1994 season despite being at every game - was working a concession stand that season fundraising...

We'd hold onto the buyer's driver's license (or nondriver's state ID) until the pass was safely returned. But yeah, you still had to trust them.

[tifosi77]

No joke, I know someone who got over $200 for the first OSU game.

Best memory of that season was the commemorative coin they gave away for the first game, vs Minnesota. We found fairly early on that if you dropped them on edge onto the bleacher seats, they made a noise that sounded almost identical to a Star Wars laser. *pew*

[relantel]

No joke, I know someone who got over $200 for the first OSU game.

Best memory of that season was the commemorative coin they gave away for the first game, vs Minnesota. We found fairly early on that if you dropped them on edge onto the bleacher seats, they made a noise that sounded almost identical to a Star Wars laser. *pew*

I have one of those suckers somewhere. Don't ask me to remember the score of that game though.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Child Psychologist Who First Reported Sandusky Abuse Accuses PA Officials of ‘Whitewash’

http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/barba ... accuses-pa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Troy Loney]

Child Psychologist Who First Reported Sandusky Abuse Accuses PA Officials of ‘Whitewash’

http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/barba ... accuses-pa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So is it your stance that the state is throwing PSU under the bus and blaming it all on them?