Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[Shyster]

Louis Freeh could dig up JoePa's corpse and sodomize it on the 50-yard-line during halftime of a Penn State home game, and I wouldn't give a ****. It boggles my mind the extent people are going to defend the reputation of a dead football coach. Dead. Football. Coach. He wasn't the pope, or president, or a civil-rights advocate, or Mother Theresa. He didn't even invent a better mousetrap. He wasn't even a football player. He coached a game. A GAME. A form of entertainment. An amusement. A diversion from real life.

Look, I'm a big Penguins fan, and I like and admire Mario Lemieux. But if something or someone comes along to besmirch Mario's reputation, it would be positively insane for me to view that as a personal crusade to clear Mario's name. Why can't those folks devote their time to something less crazy and cult-like, such as the Church of Scientology Sea Org? Or were Penn Staters already required to promise to serve and worship JoePa for the next billion years?

[Factorial]

He wasn't the pope

Some would dispute this assertion.

[DontToewsMeBro]

He wasn't the pope

Some would dispute this assertion.

Nobody has a cardboard cutout of the pope in their dorm room.

[DudeMan2766]

they came from that...and full admission by the relevant parties

Can you direct me to the "full" admission you are talking about? Are referring to Paterno's often twisted quote of "With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."? He was saying that if he had known that Sandusky was a pedo he would have done more.

That is some major league word twisting. At the very least, the VERY LEAST, he was told information that caused him to go to "his superiors." He knew or had intel that something was going on. And his quote was regarding doing more than just going to his higher ups and forgetting about it. Its right there in the quote that he wishes he did MORE than he did. If I had no knowledge whatsoever of something that happened, I wouldn't say I wish I did more, I would say "I would have done something."

I didn't want to get into the discussion that we're trying to avoid because its been done for years already on this board but I couldn't get passed the bolded above.

[slappybrown]

I just went though the PSUTruthville twitter, SDD, and yes, the plan is to destroy and/or otherwise attack Freeh, Sara Ganim, the Board of Trustee members, President Barron, and anyone else who appears to be critical of the University. Yikes.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

I am defending Paterno because I believe he is innocent. It is something I would do for anyone whether they were a complete nobody or as you put it a dead football coach. Based on your views regarding the state confiscating innocent people's property, I am surprised you are so quick to judge Paterno without due process.

As for Paterno, he was more than just a football coach. He was an educator, a mentor, a father, a philanthropist, and someone who always put doing the right thing above winning.

Paterno was instrumental in building Penn State's endowment. An exert from an Onward State article about Paterno's role:

http://onwardstate.com/2014/01/22/remem ... es-speech/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was just days after the school’s first football National Championship, and Joe Paterno was invited to speak at the Board of Trustees meeting. Most people were expecting him to ask for more funding for football resources or to talk about the successful season. Instead, Paterno delivered a speech critical of the Board’s reactionary and conservative governing style (as much as things change…) and pushed the trustees to launch a serious fundraising campaign to strengthen academic units and bring in world class professors. It was a bold move for a football coach — at his first Board meeting ever no less — to call out his bosses to use the momentum from football’s recent success to build a better university. This speech led to “The Campaign for Penn State” and the fundraising excellence we have today.

He donated millions of dollars back to the university to build a new library and took much less money than his coaching peers. He lived in a modest home near the university and often walked to and from the stadium and his office on campus. He drove a Ford Tempo for much of his career and never asked for lavish accommodations for the football program. (James Franklin incidentally has been campaigning for better facilities.)

The university never had a NCAA infraction during Paterno's tenure. Penn State often ranked among the top schools for graduation of football players and GPA.

The are dozens and dozens of stories from his players about how he and his wife Sue tutored them or gave them the push they needed to finish college and become now successful lawyers and businessmen.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footba ... him-fondly" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are other stories about how he provided financial assistance to former players after there college career.

http://www.ydr.com/psu/ci_26306851/form ... oe-paterno" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Although I can't speak for everyone that defends Paterno, most that I've talked to (those that are alumni and others that are not) that defend him give the same reasons.

[columbia]

I, for one, am praying for Freeh's recovery, so that he may pay for his transgressions.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

they came from that...and full admission by the relevant parties

Can you direct me to the "full" admission you are talking about? Are referring to Paterno's often twisted quote of "With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."? He was saying that if he had known that Sandusky was a pedo he would have done more.

That is some major league word twisting. At the very least, the VERY LEAST, he was told information that caused him to go to "his superiors." He knew or had intel that something was going on. And his quote was regarding doing more than just going to his higher ups and forgetting about it. Its right there in the quote that he wishes he did MORE than he did. If I had no knowledge whatsoever of something that happened, I wouldn't say I wish I did more, I would say "I would have done something."

I didn't want to get into the discussion that we're trying to avoid because its been done for years already on this board but I couldn't get passed the bolded above.

His son and others close to Paterno have stated that what I said was his intent. I agree that he didn't word that statement in the best possible way.

[DudeMan2766]

That right there is Paterno defenders in a nutshell. "Heres the exact words that came out of his mouth, but his kids and friends assure us he meant to phrase it so it sounds like he knew absolutely nothing." Give me a freaking break. Joe was fine to coach a major college program, but when he comes to this he was just a feeble old man who can't remember anything or even know what he's saying.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

That right there is Paterno defenders in a nutshell. "Heres the exact words that came out of his mouth, but his kids and friends say he meant to phrase it so it sounds like he knew absolutely nothing." Give me a freaking break. Joe was fine to coach a major college program, but when he comes to this he was just a feeble old man who can't remember anything or even know what he's saying.

I am not saying that at all and I'm not sure how I his words being misinterpreted are me stating that he is feeble old man. Those words are from a written statement that his PR team released. In Jay's bok he states that he advised him not to include that in the statement as he thought it would be misinterpreted but his dad wanted it included.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

"@ManginoOnKDKA: Jay Paterno joins me at 10p to talk about his Dad #PSU #NCAA #Sanctions #Legacy #Paterno Legacy | Triumph Books: http://t.co/MijXLiDyGO" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

[DudeMan2766]

That right there is Paterno defenders in a nutshell. "Heres the exact words that came out of his mouth, but his kids and friends say he meant to phrase it so it sounds like he knew absolutely nothing." Give me a freaking break. Joe was fine to coach a major college program, but when he comes to this he was just a feeble old man who can't remember anything or even know what he's saying.

I am not saying that at all and I'm not sure how I his words being misinterpreted are me stating that he is feeble old man. Those words are from a written statement that his PR team released. In Jay's bok he states that he advised him not to include that in the statement as he thought it would be misinterpreted but his dad wanted it included.

So Joe said it, he stood by it, but the PR team thats there to make Joe look good thought it was a bad idea. What is it you aren't getting? Now that Joe's dead were supposed to take the word of his sons even tho it goes against what Joe himself stated when he was alive? This is insane. But everybody already knows that.

[relantel]

"With the benefit of hindsight,"

Everyone always omits that part. From Frank Fina, lead prosecutor in the OAG on the Sandusky case, down to the NCAA admit that Paterno did what was required. In fact, PA law prevented him from having any bigger role than what he played.

This op-ed written by Paterno shortly before he died is well worth reading, about remembering what is and is not important (excerpt quoted below):
http://www.wearecentralpa.com/story/d/s ... A.facebook" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"For the last two months, at the request of the Attorney General's office, I have not discussed the specifics of my testimony regarding the pending cases. And while I will continue to honor that request, I do feel compelled to address comments made subsequent to November 9; specifically, I feel compelled to say, in no uncertain terms, that this is not a football scandal.

Let me say that again so I am not misunderstood: regardless of anyone's opinion of my actions or the actions of the handful of administration officials in this matter, the fact is nothing alleged is an indictment of football or evidence that the spectacular collections of accomplishments by dedicated student athletes should be in anyway tarnished.

Yet, over and over again, I have heard Penn State officials decrying the influence of football and have heard such ignorant comments like Penn State will no longer be a "football factory" and we are going to "start" focusing on integrity in athletics. These statements are simply unsupported by the five decades of evidence to the contrary - and succeed only in unfairly besmirching both a great University and the players and alumni of the football program who have given of themselves to help make it great.

[RJW76]

Oh, he drove a Ford Tempo. Nevermind.

[Shyster]

I am defending Paterno because I believe he is innocent. It is something I would do for anyone whether they were a complete nobody or as you put it a dead football coach. Based on your views regarding the state confiscating innocent people's property, I am surprised you are so quick to judge Paterno without due process.

I'm not judging him. I don't care. To judge him I would have to expend some effort on the matter. And even if I did, there is no due process in the court of public opinion. I can think what I want about anyone. And I happen to think that—all this time later—the people who are still impassioned about defending a dead football coach (who was also a multi-millionaire and Penn State's highest-paid employee) would be better served by moving on with their lives.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

So if you were falsely accused of things you didn't commit and didn't have the means or ability to defend yourself you wouldn't want anyone to support you? And this is a matter of principle to defend the truth, because if someone like Paterno can be torn down unfairly then it could happen to anyone.

[count2infinity]

oy vey....

[Troy Loney]

So if you were falsely accused of things you didn't commit and didn't have the means or ability to defend yourself you wouldn't want anyone to support you? And this is a matter of principle to defend the truth, because if someone like Paterno can be torn down unfairly then it could happen to anyone.

But he's not really being accused of anything. The lack of response is baffling and leaves people to consider that the motivation was to mute the incident. I don't think a real fulfilling case has been put forward by those that were in charge that explain why nothing was done. Just a bunch of confusion between horesplay and things done "sexual in nature" and attacking McQueary.

Regardless of the events that actually transpired, his longtime associate turned out to be a serial pedophile, he's reputation is going to be a little smudged. And as far as the NCAA sanctions, they're just a bunch of jerks with money falling out of their pockets....i don't think anyone but Penn State people are picking a side in this PSU vs NCAA thing.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

So if you were falsely accused of things you didn't commit and didn't have the means or ability to defend yourself you wouldn't want anyone to support you? And this is a matter of principle to defend the truth, because if someone like Paterno can be torn down unfairly then it could happen to anyone.

But he's not really being accused of anything. The lack of response is baffling and leaves people to consider that the motivation was to mute the incident. I don't think a real fulfilling case has been put forward by those that were in charge that explain why nothing was done. Just a bunch of confusion between horesplay and things done "sexual in nature" and attacking McQueary.

Regardless of the events that actually transpired, his longtime associate turned out to be a serial pedophile, he's reputation is going to be a little smudged. And as far as the NCAA sanctions, they're just a bunch of jerks with money falling out of their pockets....i don't think anyone but Penn State people are picking a side in this PSU vs NCAA thing.

He was accused of being involved in covering up Sandusky's actions. I agree with the rest of your post. I hope that the trial of the PSU administrators explains why a report wasn't made, or if the case doesn't go to trial (which is probably what is going to happen) I hope the administrators explain their actions or lack thereof.

[Shyster]

So if you were falsely accused of things you didn't commit and didn't have the means or ability to defend yourself you wouldn't want anyone to support you? And this is a matter of principle to defend the truth, because if someone like Paterno can be torn down unfairly then it could happen to anyone.

You are assuming he was falsely accused and is being "torn down unfairly." I don't believe those are accepted facts. And, sure, I would maybe expect people like close friends and family members to support me. I would not expect random strangers to make it their life's mission (see John Ziegler) to defend me. In fact, I would wonder why the heck they care. Although if in fact I were in Paterno's place, I wouldn't be able to wonder anything because I'd be dead.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

"@ManginoOnKDKA: Jay Paterno joins me at 10p to talk about his Dad #PSU #NCAA #Sanctions #Legacy #Paterno Legacy | Triumph Books: http://t.co/MijXLiDyGO" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

Full audio of Mangino's interview now available on CBS Pittsburgh website:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/09/ ... is-father/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[relantel]

So if you were falsely accused of things you didn't commit and didn't have the means or ability to defend yourself you wouldn't want anyone to support you? And this is a matter of principle to defend the truth, because if someone like Paterno can be torn down unfairly then it could happen to anyone.

But he's not really being accused of anything. The lack of response is baffling and leaves people to consider that the motivation was to mute the incident. I don't think a real fulfilling case has been put forward by those that were in charge that explain why nothing was done. Just a bunch of confusion between horesplay and things done "sexual in nature" and attacking McQueary.

Regardless of the events that actually transpired, his longtime associate turned out to be a serial pedophile, he's reputation is going to be a little smudged. And as far as the NCAA sanctions, they're just a bunch of jerks with money falling out of their pockets....i don't think anyone but Penn State people are picking a side in this PSU vs NCAA thing.

Here, the prosecution silenced Curley and Schultz by including them in their initial presentment, so any truth to be learned from them won't be until the adversarial process of their trials, whenever they may actually take place. They later included Spanier in this as well, all relying on the inconsistent testimony of McQueary. Spanier's was from Cynthia Baldwin, PSU's Counsel, who turned and flipped, breaking attorney-client privilege in the process to save her own hide. Nevermind any facts on the situation bear out all three men, and their likelihood of being acquitted, and the likelihood that Baldwin will be disbarred.

The OAG did it because they wanted the case tied to Penn State, and the ability of Schultz and Curley being able to speak would have made it pretty clear quickly that PSU had no part and was not culpable in Sandusky's actions. It is often said that justice delayed is justice denied. And as we approach three years for Curley and Schultz, when Sandusky's trial was over within 8 months... So their inclusion only served to contaminate their view in the public eye, both as individuals and as a university, something which with the callous Freeh report exacerbated because the uninformed bought it as fact. This was echoed by the NCAA relying on its conclusions. (The NCAA lost on this count today - that their logic that plaintiffs had no standing because they were not given notice of a suspected violation was not accepted by the judge - NCAA was trying to get out of following their rules because they didn't follow their rules)

People complain that we stand on principle. Sometimes when everything else is taken away, that is all that is left. Would Joe himself have sought this fight? I doubt it. But I don't see any harm in his heirs making that fight, nor the former coaches and trustees who won in court today. The bottom line is legality of the consent decree will be decided by a jury, assuming NCAA doesn't settle before then.

http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/u ... 0%2014.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lt. Dish]

The folks making it their life's mission to exonerate or defend Paterno aside...

It seems one can't even rationally discuss details that may reflect positively on Paterno without being stamped with a label of "apologist," "Paterno wacko," or "Joe-bot."

Just as Paterno's stauchest defenders should be prepared to face any emerging facts that put Paterno is a bad light, the media mob and frothing masses should be prepared to face any emerging facts that exonerate him.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

"@BSDtweet: Via @centredailycom, the court has ruled that the parties that make up the Paterno lawsuit have standing to challenge the Consent Decree."

[Lt. Dish]

Louis Freeh could dig up JoePa's corpse and sodomize it on the 50-yard-line during halftime of a Penn State home game, and I wouldn't give a ****. It boggles my mind the extent people are going to defend the reputation of a dead football coach. Dead. Football. Coach. He wasn't the pope, or president, or a civil-rights advocate, or Mother Theresa. He didn't even invent a better mousetrap. He wasn't even a football player. He coached a game. A GAME. A form of entertainment. An amusement. A diversion from real life.

Look, I'm a big Penguins fan, and I like and admire Mario Lemieux. But if something or someone comes along to besmirch Mario's reputation, it would be positively insane for me to view that as a personal crusade to clear Mario's name. Why can't those folks devote their time to something less crazy and cult-like, such as the Church of Scientology Sea Org? Or were Penn Staters already required to promise to serve and worship JoePa for the next billion years?

I don't understand criticizing Paterno's family and friends for defending him; I think most families would do the same, especially given the gravity of the accusations. I may not join them, but I certainly don't begrudge them.