Toews/Kane signed, 8yrs, 10.5M each

[Troy Loney]

The deals are fair. Obviously those players have a lot of value right now.

I don't blame the Hawks. At a business level, it's a no-brainer.

It may hurt at a hockey level for a couple of years, but probably no more than drama and/or making significant changes would have.

I much prefer the way that the hawks seem to be approaching their championship windows than the penguins. Granted the hawks have some cap circumventing contracts that the penguins dont and the crawford contract is a mess, but they seem more willing to embrace change and a retooling period.

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but the hawks have seemed more proactive about upcoming cap issues. They've used bolland, ladd, versteeg and byfuglien to add youth to the depth chart and been better about getting young guys into the lineup and in positions to succeed. Their worst case scenario looks like having to move Saad as an RFA with value high enough to allow them to dictate the ideal return in terms of NHL experience, prospects or draft picks. Plus i'm sure they wont have trouble moving someone like hjmaarlson or bickell if needed to.

On the other hand, the penguins have let Niskanen walk for nothing and will likely let martin walk for nothing next offseason, at the same time locking up older players like kunitz and dupuis. The Staal and Neal trades look more reactive than proactive to me. A stupid analogy would just be something like the Penguins are just doing their best to steady the ship and avoiding and change if possible.

[newarenanow]

The deals are fair. Obviously those players have a lot of value right now.

I don't blame the Hawks. At a business level, it's a no-brainer.

It may hurt at a hockey level for a couple of years, but probably no more than drama and/or making significant changes would have.

This. I'm not shocked. If they don't get it in Chicago, they get it elsewhere. And their post season results and overall play show they deserve it.

Just like sid and Geno could get that, but they decided to take a discount.

[mikey287]

Is that in order, Mikey?

Geez, I'd hate to say in exact order, Hammer. Because if you ask me right now, I might switch a couple players. But it's fairly close. I also threw it together while I was on the phone at work, so I could be forgetting someone that belongs very simply. That's about a roughly where I would be on it though I guess...but it's so tough, ya know...there's a good claim for about 10,000 different combos if exact order is involved...

[mikey287]

I feel like I'd have my rankings more like this:

Crosby
Toews
Malkin
Kopitar
Stamkos
Giroux
Tavares
Ovechkin
Kane
Getzlaf

To follow up on my point, this is pretty fair. Though, if you're rewarding two-way centers with a penchant to come through in big spots, you might see Kopi and/or Getz higher. But really there's a lot of ways to go. This is a good list and there isn't a d-man on it and it's still very, very valid.

[TheHammer24]

My follow up question is are all ten players worth the de facto league max? (What Geno, Sid, and these two received in the year they received it.) I think the answer is yes.

even if crosby and giroux are both in the top 10, i don't think they deserve to be paid equally if they sign new deals in the same offseason. you do?

I think each player is worth $10.5 million to his team. I think every team in the NHL i willing to pay everyone of those players $10.5 million a year. I agree with the Troy, though. Should a team pay two of those players those contracts.

[TheHammer24]

Is that in order, Mikey?

Geez, I'd hate to say in exact order, Hammer. Because if you ask me right now, I might switch a couple players. But it's fairly close. I also threw it together while I was on the phone at work, so I could be forgetting someone that belongs very simply. That's about a roughly where I would be on it though I guess...but it's so tough, ya know...there's a good claim for about 10,000 different combos if exact order is involved...

Of course. I understand that ordinal rankings are not useful, and the marginal differences between two players are minimal. I just wanted to get an idea of who the ten best players in the NHL were.

[meow]

Excuse me, but where is Craig Adams in this discussion?

[mikey287]

Excuse me, but where is Craig Adams in this discussion?

Tied for the third most Stanley Cups in the league right now with 2, right? (Brodeur, Williams). Gotta be at least in the discussion...

[André]

The deals are fair. Obviously those players have a lot of value right now.

I don't blame the Hawks. At a business level, it's a no-brainer.

It may hurt at a hockey level for a couple of years, but probably no more than drama and/or making significant changes would have.

I much prefer the way that the hawks seem to be approaching their championship windows than the penguins. Granted the hawks have some cap circumventing contracts that the penguins dont and the crawford contract is a mess, but they seem more willing to embrace change and a retooling period.

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but the hawks have seemed more proactive about upcoming cap issues. They've used bolland, ladd, versteeg and byfuglien to add youth to the depth chart and been better about getting young guys into the lineup and in positions to succeed. Their worst case scenario looks like having to move Saad as an RFA with value high enough to allow them to dictate the ideal return in terms of NHL experience, prospects or draft picks. Plus i'm sure they wont have trouble moving someone like hjmaarlson or bickell if needed to.

On the other hand, the penguins have let Niskanen walk for nothing and will likely let martin walk for nothing next offseason, at the same time locking up older players like kunitz and dupuis. The Staal and Neal trades look more reactive than proactive to me. A stupid analogy would just be something like the Penguins are just doing their best to steady the ship and avoiding and change if possible.

Exactly this. The Pens are reactive when it's too late and have too desperately clung to the core. Get rid of Letang and Fleury for starters.

[JS©]

so what happens when the cap doesn't go up as much as anticipated, or perhaps at all?

I've seen a lot of talk about how these deals will look good in years 5+ when the cap is near 80m. The problem is, you have to get to the point where it is 80m before you can talk about how good the deal with be at that level. If it goes up slowly, as in 72m, 75m, 78m, and 80m, dropping 21m on two players may not be the best idea, regardless of how talented both are. At the very least, it will get interesting next season when players like Nick Leddy, (defenseman, 31 pts in 82 GP, 2.700 cap hit), Markus Kruger (28 pts in 81 games, 1.325 cap hit), and especially Brandon Saad (47 pts in 78 games, 16 pts in 19 playoff games, and is a steal at a 764k cap hit)

Hossa is the only option to move that doesn't have a NTC/NMC, but his salary (not cap hit, his salary) doesn't drop from 7.9m until 2016-17, where it will decline to a reasonable 4m. Not exactly attractive to some teams.

[wondermoose]

so what happens when the cap doesn't go up as much as anticipated, or perhaps at all?

I've seen a lot of talk about how these deals will look good in years 5+ when the cap is near 80m. The problem is, you have to get to the point where it is 80m before you can talk about how good the deal with be at that level. If it goes up slowly, as in 72m, 75m, 78m, and 80m, dropping 21m on two players may not be the best idea, regardless of how talented both are. At the very least, it will get interesting next season when players like Nick Leddy, (defenseman, 31 pts in 82 GP, 2.700 cap hit), Markus Kruger (28 pts in 81 games, 1.325 cap hit), and especially Brandon Saad (47 pts in 78 games, 16 pts in 19 playoff games, and is a steal at a 764k cap hit)

Hossa is the only option to move that doesn't have a NTC/NMC, but his salary (not cap hit, his salary) doesn't drop from 7.9m until 2016-17, where it will decline to a reasonable 4m. Not exactly attractive to some teams.

The really awesome thing about some of the salaries the Blackhawks have handed out (and the same goes for any other big name team, including Pittsburgh with the exception of Scuderi) is that they can shed them in a moment's notice. There are about 10 teams in the League that are absolutely starved for experienced players so when the time comes that the Hawks need to shed salary, whether it be Bickell or Sharp or whoever, they won't have that much trouble.

[topshelf]

The price is right for Towes, but they overpaid for Kane. Just my opinion, though.

[JS©]

so what happens when the cap doesn't go up as much as anticipated, or perhaps at all?

I've seen a lot of talk about how these deals will look good in years 5+ when the cap is near 80m. The problem is, you have to get to the point where it is 80m before you can talk about how good the deal with be at that level. If it goes up slowly, as in 72m, 75m, 78m, and 80m, dropping 21m on two players may not be the best idea, regardless of how talented both are. At the very least, it will get interesting next season when players like Nick Leddy, (defenseman, 31 pts in 82 GP, 2.700 cap hit), Markus Kruger (28 pts in 81 games, 1.325 cap hit), and especially Brandon Saad (47 pts in 78 games, 16 pts in 19 playoff games, and is a steal at a 764k cap hit)

Hossa is the only option to move that doesn't have a NTC/NMC, but his salary (not cap hit, his salary) doesn't drop from 7.9m until 2016-17, where it will decline to a reasonable 4m. Not exactly attractive to some teams.

The really awesome thing about some of the salaries the Blackhawks have handed out (and the same goes for any other big name team, including Pittsburgh with the exception of Scuderi) is that they can shed them in a moment's notice. There are about 10 teams in the League that are absolutely starved for experienced players so when the time comes that the Hawks need to shed salary, whether it be Bickell or Sharp or whoever, they won't have that much trouble.

but a good portion of those players have a no movement and/or no trade clause attached to their name. Sharp definitely does, and I believe Bickell has a limited one.

[Pavel Bure]

The price is right for Towes, but they overpaid for Kane. Just my opinion, though.

I feel it's the opposite. Kane IMO is more the heart and soul of that team than Toews. IMO Toews is similar to what Mike Richards was in Philly a solid player constantly propped up by pundits to be at the top of the league but just not quite there. Very good and leadership but not a top 10 guy IMO.

[shmenguin]

I'd rather have Kane in any given game than Toews.

[pittsports87]

Off hand: Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Tavares, Getzlaf, Weber, Doughty, Kopitar, Giroux...

Kane and Toews have a case to be in there, but I'm sure they're coming right up if that list were to continue.

whoa whoa whoa. Where's James Neal?

Going back to being normal and play with Mike Fisher. Oh yea that's not gonna happen anytime soon cause is out for 4-6

Mike Fisher had surgery for a ruptured Achilles and will be out 4-6 months. Neal will probably get the honor of playing with Olli Jokinen.

[mikey287]

Jokinen is a shoot-first center. He probably ends up with the better, slicker passer in Calle Jarnkrok...

[Tim Thomasen]

The deals are fair. Obviously those players have a lot of value right now.

I don't blame the Hawks. At a business level, it's a no-brainer.

It may hurt at a hockey level for a couple of years, but probably no more than drama and/or making significant changes would have.

I much prefer the way that the hawks seem to be approaching their championship windows than the penguins. Granted the hawks have some cap circumventing contracts that the penguins dont and the crawford contract is a mess, but they seem more willing to embrace change and a retooling period.

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but the hawks have seemed more proactive about upcoming cap issues. They've used bolland, ladd, versteeg and byfuglien to add youth to the depth chart and been better about getting young guys into the lineup and in positions to succeed. Their worst case scenario looks like having to move Saad as an RFA with value high enough to allow them to dictate the ideal return in terms of NHL experience, prospects or draft picks. Plus i'm sure they wont have trouble moving someone like hjmaarlson or bickell if needed to.

On the other hand, the penguins have let Niskanen walk for nothing and will likely let martin walk for nothing next offseason, at the same time locking up older players like kunitz and dupuis. The Staal and Neal trades look more reactive than proactive to me. A stupid analogy would just be something like the Penguins are just doing their best to steady the ship and avoiding and change if possible.

Despite the fact this offseason completely throws out that argument. They fired the coach and GM who clung onto the core for too long and made little change to the NHL roster and hired a new GM and made changes to the roster including trading a player for two players that help address two problems the team have: A top 6 forward who's a good locker room guy, can play with an edge and another player who is a good bottom 6 player. All of this helps the team play with a different dimension as well. Something this team badly needs

They also signed another good bottom 6 player in Comeau and signed a forward who will bring a toughness in Downie. So despite your criticism,the team has finally realized they needed change and now are making it happen for the better. Don't complain when it happens since we been screaming for it for years. That's LGP in a nutshell. Complain for something over and over and when you get what you been screaming for complain some more because it didn't happen when YOU wanted it. Better late than never Troy. But hey i'm talking to the same person who prefers the situation the Jags are in with regards to rebuilding their roster then the Steelers and no one would prefer to be in that situation.

As for Martin and Niskanen, yeah he should of been traded but that's on Shero since they should of gotten rid of him for value but didn't (you would of never of gotten any value if you tried to trade him before FA started) and with all the defensemen gone, Martin will be useful this year because he's still very good, can play on the top 2 lines and provides experience. It wouldn't be wise to trade him.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Man, the Hawks are gonna fall off the face of the earth in a few years.
I don't see how you can pay both that much. I would've tried to trade Kane first.

[Troy Loney]

The deals are fair. Obviously those players have a lot of value right now.

I don't blame the Hawks. At a business level, it's a no-brainer.

It may hurt at a hockey level for a couple of years, but probably no more than drama and/or making significant changes would have.

I much prefer the way that the hawks seem to be approaching their championship windows than the penguins. Granted the hawks have some cap circumventing contracts that the penguins dont and the crawford contract is a mess, but they seem more willing to embrace change and a retooling period.

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but the hawks have seemed more proactive about upcoming cap issues. They've used bolland, ladd, versteeg and byfuglien to add youth to the depth chart and been better about getting young guys into the lineup and in positions to succeed. Their worst case scenario looks like having to move Saad as an RFA with value high enough to allow them to dictate the ideal return in terms of NHL experience, prospects or draft picks. Plus i'm sure they wont have trouble moving someone like hjmaarlson or bickell if needed to.

On the other hand, the penguins have let Niskanen walk for nothing and will likely let martin walk for nothing next offseason, at the same time locking up older players like kunitz and dupuis. The Staal and Neal trades look more reactive than proactive to me. A stupid analogy would just be something like the Penguins are just doing their best to steady the ship and avoiding and change if possible.

Despite the fact this offseason completely throws out that argument. They fired the coach and GM who clung onto the core for too long and made little change to the NHL roster and hired a new GM and made changes to the roster including trading a player for two players that help address two problems the team have: A top 6 forward who's a good locker room guy, can play with an edge and another player who is a good bottom 6 player. All of this helps the team play with a different dimension as well. Something this team badly needs

They also signed another good bottom 6 player in Comeau and signed a forward who will bring a toughness in Downie. So despite your criticism,the team has finally realized they needed change and now are making it happen for the better. Don't complain when it happens since we been screaming for it for years. That's LGP in a nutshell. Complain for something over and over and when you get what you been screaming for complain some more because it didn't happen when YOU wanted it. Better late than never Troy. But hey i'm talking to the same person who prefers the situation the Jags are in with regards to rebuilding their roster then the Steelers and no one would prefer to be in that situation.

As for Martin and Niskanen, yeah he should of been traded but that's on Shero since they should of gotten rid of him for value but didn't (you would of never of gotten any value if you tried to trade him before FA started) and with all the defensemen gone, Martin will be useful this year because he's still very good, can play on the top 2 lines and provides experience. It wouldn't be wise to trade him.

I didn't realize that prefering the management tactics of the hawks over the penguins would be personally offensive to anyone.

[columbia]

Nice Steelers related dig.