The Official Olympic Hockey Thread

[PensFanInDC]

Enough Finland talk.

BRING ON THE CZECHS!!!!

[MWW]

oh and, TAKE THAT KHL!!!!!!! guess you're not better than the NHL......or the Finnish Elite League.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 5 Min.
I hear KHL-NHL narrative for RUS failure. Fair enough, RUS with 9 non-NHLers. But FIN has 11 non-NHLers, many of whom (8) play in KHL.

The main reason was that the russians didn´t play as a team.
And the coaching was questionable, too. Starting goalie, no adjustments, no chemistry

[tifosi77]

I think Milbury just nailed it. I am now going to go take my own life after having said that.

That's pretty much what I've been saying about Russia all along.

Think of it this way: A hockey player growing up in Sweden or Finland or wherever comes over to the NHL, they are coming to further their careers. They don't necessarily love their homeland less, it's just the NHL is where the action is. When a Russian player comes over, as often as not it's as big a deal for them to be getting out of Russia. Leaving. Vamanos. Why would you expect players like that to leave it all on the ice for the honor and glory of the country they fled? Why would they run themselves dry for Putin? I mean, just think of the shenanigans Geno had to go through to get out of his KHL contract and leave Russia; his team confiscated his passport, for crying out loud. And this was just seven, eight years ago. This is not the distant past.

Once Soviet (now Russian) players began regularly making the jump to the NHL, this sort of not-giving-an-eff mentality was inevitable in the Russian teams. You don't really see it as much in the Czech or Slovak teams, or the other nations that were part of the post-WWII Soviet bloc in part, I would say, because the intense Soviet presence in their countries instilled a pretty fierce sense of nationalism and pride that carried over post-1989, and the breakup of the Communist countries in the Warsaw Pact into their constituent parts; Czechoslovakia becoming Czech and Slovakia, for example. (Of course, that had some pretty nasty implications in the 90s in the Balkans, but this is about hockey)

Pre-tournament, Russia was the IIHF world #3 team. The roster that earned that ranking was largely devoid of the NHL players that most contributed this embarrassment; that is the roster that Russia should have iced for the Olympics.

[DelPen]

@TSNResearch: Teemu Selanne played in the 1992 Olympics, Mikael Granlund was born 3 days after the games ended.

Maatta was born 6 months after the 94 games ended

[Idoit40fans]

Yeah that jumped out at me, I was thinking how is Granlund younger than Maatta?

[Jim]

Madden was just GOING OFF on Malkin on WDVE. He was ripping him apart on the drive home yesterday too.

[DelPen]

I think Milbury just nailed it. I am now going to go take my own life after having said that.

That's pretty much what I've been saying about Russia all along.

Think of it this way: A hockey player growing up in Sweden or Finland or wherever comes over to the NHL, they are coming to further their careers. They don't necessarily love their homeland less, it's just the NHL is where the action is. When a Russian player comes over, as often as not it's as big a deal for them to be getting out of Russia. Leaving. Vamanos. Why would you expect players like that to leave it all on the ice for the honor and glory of the country they fled? Why would they pour run themselves dry for Putin? I mean, just think of the shenanigans Geno had to go through to get out of his KHL contract and leave Russia; his team confiscated his passport, for crying out loud. And this was just seven, eight years ago. This is not the distant past.

Once Soviet (now Russian) players began regularly making the jump to the NHL, this sort of not-giving-an-eff mentality was inevitable in the Russian teams. You don't really see it as much in the Czech or Slovak teams, or the other nations that were part of the post-WWII Soviet bloc in part, I would say, because the intense Soviet presence in their countries instilled a pretty fierce sense of nationalism and pride that carried over post-1989, and the breakup of the Communist countries in the Warsaw Pact into their constituent parts; Czechoslovakia becoming Czech and Slovakia, for example. (Of course, that had some pretty nasty implications in the 90s in the Balkans, but this is about hockey)

Pre-tournament, Russia was the IIHF world #3 team. The roster that earned that ranking was largely devoid of the NHL players that most contributed this embarrassment; that is the roster that Russia should have iced for the Olympics.

They needed a coach with a bigger personaltiy who also wasn't a selfish a-hole. Was Slava Fetisov involved at all? He built the bronze medal team from 2002.

[DelPen]

Madden was just GOING OFF on Malkin on WDVE. He was ripping him apart on the drive home yesterday too.

So Madden didn't watch any of the Russian games then.

[the riddler]

Madden was just GOING OFF on Malkin on WDVE. He was ripping him apart on the drive home yesterday too.

Big surprise.

[luv66]

I feel Bad for Geno, get fired up for the Stanley Cup big guy! But I don't care for Ovi, Kovy or Radulov so it's not too bad from my point of view. Congrats Oli and Jussi Good luck against Sweden.


And yes , that NHL vs KHL argument is invalid.

[meow]

Madden was just GOING OFF on Malkin on WDVE. He was ripping him apart on the drive home yesterday too.

So Madden didn't watch any of the Russian games then.

QFT

[Idoit40fans]

I don't think Malkin was worth going off on, but I wouldn't say he was good. He didn't screw up, so comparatively he was great.

[pittsoccer33]

I thought the narrative was that Soviets jumped to the NHL mostly for money - that they were hired guns. Didn't really care about NHL championships. And I thought that was extrapolated to a number of "soff euros" from other countries.

Now that KHL money can be better they are heading back Russia. Again, just following the $$.

[Gaucho]

Following the money is what pros do.

[tifosi77]

They needed a coach with a bigger personaltiy who also wasn't a selfish a-hole. Was Slava Fetisov involved at all? He built the bronze medal team from 2002.

Who was the coach in 2006? 2010?

Coaching can't overcome the problems the Russian team has. It certainly doesn't help that the coach had to be told to pull the goalie, but the issues in Team Russia are not hockey issues. They aren't Xs and Os problems. They are personality driven. You can't coach your way out of a team full of players who don't give a rip.

[the riddler]

Malkin didn't look that good in the games that I saw, but it seemed like a whole team issue with Russia. They kept trying to throw long passes through the middle of the ice and it just wasn't working. Ovechkin looked worse to me, he needs to pass the puck instead of shooting into the shin pads of defenders.

[Crankshaft]

I don't think Malkin was worth going off on, but I wouldn't say he was good. He didn't screw up, so comparatively he was great.

I agree...Malkin wasn't horrible but he didn't stand out, either. He really wasn't in the position to take over the game, though.

[Idoit40fans]

They needed a coach with a bigger personaltiy who also wasn't a selfish a-hole. Was Slava Fetisov involved at all? He built the bronze medal team from 2002.

Who was the coach in 2006? 2010?

Coaching can't overcome the problems the Russian team has. It certainly doesn't help that the coach had to be told to pull the goalie, but the issues in Team Russia are not hockey issues. They aren't Xs and Os problems. They are personality driven. You can't coach your way out of a team full of players who don't give a rip.

You can eliminate the 30 foot gap left between the forwards and defense, that certainly wouldn't hurt.

[PghSkins]

Isn't it cute? Putin was in on the decision on who should coach the Russian hockey team!

[Idoit40fans]

Following the money is what pros do.

[pcm]

It wouldn't be that they're going home to Russia because the money is better.
It'd be they're going home to Russia. The money is no longer an issue.

But that's never been Geno's narrative. He wants to play against the best. I think the same can be said for the majority of these guys now.

Mother Russia perpetuates the KHL narrative to the detriment of its players, as it puts the honus of having something to prove on them.

[Jim]

I don't think Malkin was worth going off on, but I wouldn't say he was good. He didn't screw up, so comparatively he was great.

I only caught a little of the rant today, but on the drive home yesterday Madden was referring to Malkin as an "immature child" saying that he shows the maturity of someone of 17 as opposed to 27. Even I, who is a known Malkin detractor, was surprised by the "ferocity" of Maddens attack.

[Idoit40fans]

I don't think Malkin was worth going off on, but I wouldn't say he was good. He didn't screw up, so comparatively he was great.

I only caught a little of the rant today, but on the drive home yesterday Madden was referring to Malkin as an "immature child" saying that he shows the maturity of someone of 17 as opposed to 27. Even I, who is a known Malkin detractor, was surprised by the "ferocity" of Maddens attack.

I can see that at times, but it seems pretty irrelevant in the games I watched.

[tifosi77]

I thought the narrative was that Soviets jumped to the NHL mostly for money - that they were hired guns. Didn't really care about NHL championships. And I thought that was extrapolated to a number of "soff euros" from other countries.

Now that KHL money can be better they are heading back Russia. Again, just following the $$.

When guys like Fetisov, Kasatonov, Mogilny, etc were defecting to play in North America, they were jeopardizing their lives and potentially the lives of their families. I don't think money alone is a strong enough motivator for that kind of risk. The people that braved climbing the Berlin Wall weren't looking for a better 9-5er. It was not just a simple matter of walking across the border; every time a player left a Soviet-bloc country to play in the NHL, it was a minor international incident. Sometimes, like with Petr Nedved, it was a fairly major one.

Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia is still a pretty massive crap hole. But now that it's comparatively easier to get out of Russia, you don't see guys risking life and limb to leave. Geno notwithstanding, they can just.... go. And they do. Sure, there will be guys who go back and follow the money, as you say. But that doesn't change what I think is the fundamental narrative at the core of Russia's hockey woes.

[pittsoccer33]

Following the money is what pros do.

If thats [solely] the case why aren't more top level players going over there? Wasn't Malkin offered like a kabillion oligarch rubles to play there?