Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[GSdrums87]

I have an associates degree in Criminal Justice from Harrisburg Area Community College. So ya'll can shove that in your corn cob pipes and smoke it with a glass of brandy, you dapper scholars you.

[Troy Loney]

you can say that about every school.

You most certainly can't. The top student in my cohort was a quadruple major, received her masters, and wrote 2 book-length dissertations in 4 years. Schreyers regularly poaches Ivy league students who want to go to school for free and receive a comparable education.

Nobody is saying that other schools cannot provide a good education, but from someone who has taken advantages of its resources, PSU is most definitely a top school in many regards.

A success story doesn't prove your point...you know that right? She should've gone to Penn.

[ExPatriatePen]

I didn't even go to a "university," I went to a "college." And the resources pretty much sucked.

I didn't go to a College or University either
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I went to Pitt

Spoiler:

I'm joking, I'm joking

[Troy Loney]

LOL... such a fun conversation.

without reading all 98 pages, has anyone even mentioned that it really depends on what field of study you're in?

For instance, just to pick a couple of schools randomly, I don't think there's any question that CMU has a better Computer Sciences program than say, Clarion.

PSU would have a better computer program than CMU if they WANTED to.

[JoseCuervo]

you can say that about every school.

You most certainly can't. The top student in my cohort was a quadruple major, received her masters, and wrote 2 book-length dissertations in 4 years. Schreyers regularly poaches Ivy league students who want to go to school for free and receive a comparable education.

Nobody is saying that other schools cannot provide a good education, but from someone who has taken advantages of its resources, PSU is most definitely a top school in many regards.

A success story doesn't prove your point...you know that right? She should've gone to Penn.

She must have had plenty of free time (to get 4 majors, a masters, and writing 2 dissertations in 4 years) because she was not being challenged in classes

[MWB]

I just want to come in and say this is a really stupid argument.

You can get a good education pretty much anywhere. It's mostly on the student, not the school.

There is also no criteria for "good education" in this argument. What counts as a good education?

This is so true. A "good education" means that you are well versed in your field of study and can achieve a sustainable life in that field, if you choose. That's my thought anyway. So yeah, you can get a "good education" at lots of different schools.

[shmenguin]

i believe that being surrounded by high-quality students is important in facilitating a good education. so i think a school with a 54% acceptance rate loses points compared to one with, say, a 5% rate.

[rasbatch]

I just want to come in and say this is a really stupid argument.

You can get a good education pretty much anywhere. It's mostly on the student, not the school.

There is also no criteria for "good education" in this argument. What counts as a good education?

This is so true. A "good education" means that you are well versed in your field of study and can achieve a sustainable life in that field, if you choose. That's my thought anyway. So yeah, you can get a "good education" at lots of different schools.

But can you get the same kind of back door access that a prestigous university affords you.

[DontToewsMeBro]

A success story doesn't prove your point...you know that right? She should've gone to Penn.

How is that a success story? I was simply stating the profile of the top student in my college, as was our initial point of discussion. You could compare her to any Ivy student, at Penn or Princeton or wherever, and their profiles would be similar if not equal. For comparison, I got into every graduate school I applied to--yes even some hallowed Ivy league schools and Oxbridge--and there were dozens of students I graduated with that make me look like a neanderthal.

For the record yes our CS dept. is very good--much better than CMU in graph theory but far behind in AI ;]

[MWB]

I just want to come in and say this is a really stupid argument.

You can get a good education pretty much anywhere. It's mostly on the student, not the school.

There is also no criteria for "good education" in this argument. What counts as a good education?

This is so true. A "good education" means that you are well versed in your field of study and can achieve a sustainable life in that field, if you choose. That's my thought anyway. So yeah, you can get a "good education" at lots of different schools.

But can you get the same kind of back door access that a prestigous university affords you.

That's true, and that is what you miss in a lot of schools. The importance of that depends on your field though.

[Factorial]

What is the argument here? PSU is a good school. No one is saying it's not.

[relantel]

not to derail the derailed conversation, but been reading through the hearing testimony from Monday's hearing. Working my way through the Harmon cross now.

http://www.dauphincounty.org/government ... of%202.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the direct, prosecution has charged Schultz with perjury because he couldn't recall specifics from 1998 in front of the grand jury. Farrell gets Harmon to admit that he couldn't recall them either at the prior prelim or this particular day, without the email and notes presented in front of him. They got Harmon to say he knew exactly what the 1998 report was about when Schultz asked if they had it in 2001. But that Schultz's question didn't raise any flags with Harmon.

And McQueary, oy. Under direct he says the 'old main screwed it up' was from day Paterno was fired. Later on redirect he says it was before he was interviewed by police in 2010.

[Troy Loney]

A success story doesn't prove your point...you know that right? She should've gone to Penn.

How is that a success story? I was simply stating the profile of the top student in my college, as was our initial point of discussion. You could compare her to any Ivy student, at Penn or Princeton or wherever, and their profiles would be similar if not equal. For comparison, I got into every graduate school I applied to--yes even some hallowed Ivy league schools and Oxbridge--and there were dozens of students I graduated with that make me look like a neanderthal.

For the record yes our CS dept. is very good--much better than CMU in graph theory but far behind in AI ;]

I don't think she's representative of the student body at large. And I know that you aren't saying that. If your argument is that the most talented individuals aren't exclusively at Ivy League schools, I agree with you. But that point should be intuitive to most people.

[Grunthy]

m undergraduate school is extremely well connected and it isn't an ivy league.

[Troy Loney]

yeah notre dame is great school too. you're not breaking news to anyone here.

[DontToewsMeBro]

I don't think she's representative of the student body at large. And I know that you aren't saying that. If your argument is that the most talented individuals aren't exclusively at Ivy League schools, I agree with you. But that point should be intuitive to most people.

Of course she's not, but we weren't talking about majority of the student body.

I don't like to sound like a bible thumper, but I felt like there was some misinformation going on in this thread regarding PSU's ranks among schools. As a recent graduate and someone who knows many of these kids at "elite" schools personally, I feel like I have the most authority on the matter compared to some of you who are a decade (or more) removed from undergrad.

[columbia]

not to derail the derailed conversation, but been reading through the hearing testimony from Monday's hearing. Working my way through the Harmon cross now.

http://www.dauphincounty.org/government ... of%202.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the direct, prosecution has charged Schultz with perjury because he couldn't recall specifics from 1998 in front of the grand jury. Farrell gets Harmon to admit that he couldn't recall them either at the prior prelim or this particular day, without the email and notes presented in front of him. They got Harmon to say he knew exactly what the 1998 report was about when Schultz asked if they had it in 2001. But that Schultz's question didn't raise any flags with Harmon.

And McQueary, oy. Under direct he says the 'old main screwed it up' was from day Paterno was fired. Later on redirect he says it was before he was interviewed by police in 2010.

You're engaging in a FUD campaign....but I'm not sure to what end.

[GSdrums87]

[Grunthy]

yeah notre dame is great school too. you're not breaking news to anyone here.

Im just a ND fan. I got a full ride to go to another school. I chose free education over them.

[count2infinity]

wow...this thread went nuts when i was away. Do you guys even know what you're arguing about anymore?

[Idoit40fans]

Yeah, people state it every few posts. Some are arguing that Penn State is on the same level of Ivy League schools such as Penn and Princeton and others are arguing that its more on the level of other state schools such as USC, Maryland, Pitt, ND...

[Shyster]

I guess I am more turned off by the whole "protecting Patrno" aspect of it. If you want to lift some of the scholarship or bowl bans, because of the affect it has on the current student body and student athletes, then I would be more sympathetic. But when you have Franco Harris carrying around a cardboard cutout of Joe Paterno, then to me it's just ridiculous.

I share this sentiment 100%. The dude was a football coach. He didn't cure cancer, found a company, or even build a better mousetrap. He coached a game that is completely superfluous to the operation of a research university. I find the adulation that man was receiving to be completely creepy and cult-like, and I think the "Framing Paterno" folks really need to get over it and get on with their lives. They are embarrassing themselves and look like complete whack-jobs.

[DontToewsMeBro]

I guess I am more turned off by the whole "protecting Patrno" aspect of it. If you want to lift some of the scholarship or bowl bans, because of the affect it has on the current student body and student athletes, then I would be more sympathetic. But when you have Franco Harris carrying around a cardboard cutout of Joe Paterno, then to me it's just ridiculous.

I share this sentiment 100%. The dude was a football coach. He didn't cure cancer, found a company, or even build a better mousetrap. He coached a game that is completely superfluous to the operation of a research university. I find the adulation that man was receiving to be completely creepy and cult-like, and I think the "Framing Paterno" folks really need to get over it and get on with their lives. They are embarrassing themselves and look like complete whack-jobs.

Agreed. Unfortunately the people who worship Joe Paterno are a very vocal minority. The dude was human, but it's not entirely a coincidence the school went from this:

Spoiler:

to this:

Spoiler:

during his tenure at PSU. Even if it was a coincidence, aside from maybe Old Main (which burned down at some point) he was literally the oldest thing still standing at that school.

[viva la ben]

A lot changes in 50 years regardless of who is around.

[MRandall25]

^

I'm sure you could pull up a picture of literally every team's stadium in 1966 and now and there would be a huge difference.

And I know we're past this, but wouldn't having the highest graduation rate amongst football players mean (or at the least imply) that

1. The classes/requirements are actually easier compared to other schools (rather than being classified as "better" academically)

2. PSU football players (for lack of better terms) aren't "good enough" to leave early for the NFL, therefore staying all 4 years and graduating.