Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[DontToewsMeBro]

But the country wouldn't see that. They wouldn't notice if tuition rises, PSU loses academic distinctions, hundreds of millions of dollars, or state funding, but if the football team isn't playing Houston in the GoDaddy.com Toilet Bowl, then and only then, they are satisfied.

I just don't get how you don't see that PSU made its own bed here and now they must accept the consequences. Opposing this is akin to a parent blindly defending their child who did something and was punished for it.

Opposing it is akin to a parent defending their child who is in the process of rewriting the paper they plagiarized and another kid walking up to him and pushing him in the mud. An injustice is not a proper response to an injustice.

[MWB]

Who gives a ****? I'm not sure what you guys are whining about.

I feel a lot of people were prepared for PSU to get the death penalty, and now that that didnt happen, need to find other things to complain about, and fingers to point about PSU being bullied. Now, I don't buy that "changing the culture' stuff because most big time programs are corrupt, but this goes far above and beyond the scale of what normally involves corruption that I'm just happy the program got nailed. I don't care by who, or how. People crying that media pressure caused these harsh sanctions to come down is really ticking me off tho. After what transpired I dont care if some homeless guy wrote suggestions for punishment on a dirty napkin and slipped it under the door, as long as the school didnt get off lightly, I dont care.

So massive DOJ fines, expensive civil lawsuits, loss of sponsorship etc. would have been "getting off lightly" without the football team losing scholarships?

Would the public care if PSU got fines and lost sponsors? As long as they have their football, I don't think they would. Which is how we got here in the first place. The NCAA hit them where it hurt.

Respectfully, the NCAA's penalties are nothing compared to what other more powerful agents with legitimate moral authority are capable of doing to PSU. Potentially they could lose accreditation, which is approximately 5 billion times worse for a school than NCAA penalties. The DOE could suspend PSU from getting federal student aid. The civil lawsuits are going to result in huge checks being written.

Seems like that would effect a lot more innocent people than anything the NCAA did.

[Rocco]

Respectfully, the NCAA's penalties are nothing compared to what other more powerful agents with legitimate moral authority are capable of doing to PSU. Potentially they could lose accreditation, which is approximately 5 billion times worse for a school than NCAA penalties. The DOE could suspend PSU from getting federal student aid. The civil lawsuits are going to result in huge checks being written.

Seems like that would effect a lot more innocent people than anything the NCAA did.

I've been told that it doesn't matter who gets hurt as long as justice is delivered.

[Pavel Bure]

Again I don't see how it's an injustice that PSU is being punished for covering up child rape that was directly related to the football program. Are you guys seriously trying to say that because the NCAA didn't have specific verbage related to child rape that they are out of line for punishing a program that covered it up?

[MWB]

Respectfully, the NCAA's penalties are nothing compared to what other more powerful agents with legitimate moral authority are capable of doing to PSU. Potentially they could lose accreditation, which is approximately 5 billion times worse for a school than NCAA penalties. The DOE could suspend PSU from getting federal student aid. The civil lawsuits are going to result in huge checks being written.

Seems like that would effect a lot more innocent people than anything the NCAA did.

I've been told that it doesn't matter who gets hurt as long as justice is delivered.

I don't believe anyone in this thread has said that. Would you be okay with the consequences you outlined?

[tifosi77]

To think the punishments are anything less than deserved is to look for something to complain about.

I don't think a single person here who is questioning the NCAA's authority would dispute that Penn State deserved the punishment it was handed.

It is a completely misplaced reflex to think that the suggestion that perhaps it's not such a good idea for the NCAA to wield this much (effectively) unilateral authority is somehow functionally equal to believing that Penn State was dealt with too harshly.

[columbia]

I'll ask this again:

How should the athletic department be punished, if one doesn't believe that the NCAA should be involved?

[Rocco]

Again I don't see how it's an injustice that PSU is being punished for covering up child rape that was directly related to the football program. Are you guys seriously trying to say that because the NCAA didn't have specific verbage related to child rape that they are out of line for punishing a program that covered it up?

Injustice is too strong a word. PSU made its bed with a series of bad decisions and while I have sympathy for the athletes who had nothing to do with the situation, it's hard to feel bad at all for the school.

As for my problems with what the NCAA did, I'm going to borrow from Stewart Mandel rather than plagiarize him.

Justice has been served, assuming your idea of justice for rape victims is to deprive a school of its next four Outback Bowl invitations....

And so, Emmert made sure his organization responded accordingly -- even if that meant revoking the traditional due process afforded every other school that's ever been punished by the NCAA; invoking a nebulous, generalized bylaw about promoting integrity that could easily apply to hundreds of lawbreaking players, coaches and staffers across the country every year; and creating a precedent for dictatorial-like intervention that must now be considered every time a scandal of any proportion arises in college athletics.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z21gXV3LTJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Pavel Bure]

Again it's not like PSU raged against the punishment or the findings. The NCAA negotiated and didn't wield it's power in an unchecked way. If it had there would be a 4 year death penalty. The Freeh report and criminal trial of Sandusky provided more than enough evidence. PSU agreed to that stance and agreed another investigation wasn't necessary. I really don't see how anyone can say the NCAA didn't do this with proper evidence and handle an unprecedented violation in a way it shouldn't have. The evidence was there, it was directly connected to the school's football program, and the school agreed. There is no argument for wanton abuse of power.

[MWB]

To think the punishments are anything less than deserved is to look for something to complain about.

I don't think a single person here who is questioning the NCAA's authority would dispute that Penn State deserved the punishment it was handed.

It is a completely misplaced reflex to think that the suggestion that perhaps it's not such a good idea for the NCAA to wield this much (effectively) unilateral authority is somehow functionally equal to believing that Penn State was dealt with too harshly.

There do seem to be a couple people who don't think the punishment is appropriate.

[Rocco]

Respectfully, the NCAA's penalties are nothing compared to what other more powerful agents with legitimate moral authority are capable of doing to PSU. Potentially they could lose accreditation, which is approximately 5 billion times worse for a school than NCAA penalties. The DOE could suspend PSU from getting federal student aid. The civil lawsuits are going to result in huge checks being written.

Seems like that would effect a lot more innocent people than anything the NCAA did.

I've been told that it doesn't matter who gets hurt as long as justice is delivered.

I don't believe anyone in this thread has said that. Would you be okay with the consequences you outlined?

I don't know enough about how Clery Act penalties are applied to know the standard punishments. I would be disappointed if PSU was shut down and I don't think the DOE would revoke the school's accreditation or student aid funding. Closing the school would likely cause more trouble than it is worth so I am skeptical the Feds want to pull the pin on that grenade. I'm not sure if a school has ever lost accreditation though I'm sure it has happened. But I have no problem at all with large civil lawsuit settlements and I have no problem with them getting fined massively by legitimate law enforcement authorities. I also have no problem at all with punishing the people involved.

[Pavel Bure]

As far as crying about enforcing a broad bylaw that doesn't mean it wasn't used correctly. It's like getting caught speeding and pointing out every other guy that is speeding as the cop writes a tickets. What's right isn't always fair and what's fair isn't always right.

[DudeMan2766]

So are Mandel and some people seriously playing the "I'm sure the football sanctions really makes those raped kids feel better" card?? This defending the school and program is really unbelievable. Again, you were kidding yourselves if you didnt think the football program was getting punished. EVERYONE knew that was comming. I just can't see how people care that the NCAA didnt follow written out protocal to get it done.

But hey, Penn State didnt violate any NCAA rules.

[Rocco]

To think the punishments are anything less than deserved is to look for something to complain about.

I don't think a single person here who is questioning the NCAA's authority would dispute that Penn State deserved the punishment it was handed.

It is a completely misplaced reflex to think that the suggestion that perhaps it's not such a good idea for the NCAA to wield this much (effectively) unilateral authority is somehow functionally equal to believing that Penn State was dealt with too harshly.

There do seem to be a couple people who don't think the punishment is appropriate.

Had the NCAA treated PSU like every other program and proved PSU violated rules and were subject to violations it would be one thing. The NCAA avoided its rulebook here and created a completely different procedure to get to the outcome it wanted. (The punishments, as stated in the Consent decree, were based on the bylaws which have no stated The way Emmert went about this stinks, and it's possible to be both outraged with what PSU did and still think the NCAA over-reached and engaged in rank political grandstanding. Plenty of intelligent writers seem to feel that way. Reasonable people can have different opinions.

[PghSkins]

I just can't see how people care that the NCAA didnt follow written out protocal to get it done.

Because there but for the grace of Emmert goes whatever college sports program they root for next time they do something wrong. And while it won't be on this scale, it won't be long before some program's going to get busted hard for something.

[viva la ben]

This is getting pointless.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

BOT accepted NCAA sanctions at meeting tonight

http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/25/board ... d-meeting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DudeMan2766]

I just can't see how people care that the NCAA didnt follow written out protocal to get it done.

Because there but for the grace of Emmert goes whatever college sports program they root for next time they do something wrong. And while it won't be on this scale, it won't be long before some program's going to get busted hard for something.

And you blasted me yesterday for calling you paranoid. And as I said yesterday, this was an unprecedented exception and I really doubt they'll be handing out 4 year bowl bans and $60 million fines next time theres a recruiting violation

[PghSkins]

I just can't see how people care that the NCAA didnt follow written out protocal to get it done.

Because there but for the grace of Emmert goes whatever college sports program they root for next time they do something wrong. And while it won't be on this scale, it won't be long before some program's going to get busted hard for something.

And you blasted me yesterday for calling you paranoid. And as I said yesterday, this was an unprecedented exception and I really doubt they'll be handing out 4 year bowl bans and $60 million fines next time theres a recruiting violation

I think you must be thinking of someone else or I'm crazy ... because I have no idea what conversation you're talking about. That was my first post in this thread.

[MWB]

Rocco, I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Your opinion is completely logical, even if I don't agree with it. I wasn't referring to you in what I said.

[Rocco]

BOT accepted NCAA sanctions at meeting tonight

http://onwardstate.com/2012/07/25/board ... d-meeting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When you've got a 3-fronted war to fight and you close off one front, it doesn't make a lot of sense to reopen that front.

[Pavel Bure]

Ok so your whining is centered around the NCAA acting on something they don't have specific verbage to govern. As I said a very strange stance to take given the actions that led to those penalties.

[Rocco]

Rocco, I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Your opinion is completely logical, even if I don't agree with it. I wasn't referring to you in what I said.

Likewise. There's room for disagreement without histrionics or broad generalizations that make people who disagree with you out to be sympathetic to child rapists and I appreciate you not resorting to them and I hope that I didn't say anything to you that sounded like a cheap shot. It's rare that a Yankee fan can think of something without being told by the YES Network what to say. (Okay, that was a cheap shot. It had been a while since I'd made one.)

[DudeMan2766]

I just can't see how people care that the NCAA didnt follow written out protocal to get it done.

Because there but for the grace of Emmert goes whatever college sports program they root for next time they do something wrong. And while it won't be on this scale, it won't be long before some program's going to get busted hard for something.

And you blasted me yesterday for calling you paranoid. And as I said yesterday, this was an unprecedented exception and I really doubt they'll be handing out 4 year bowl bans and $60 million fines next time theres a recruiting violation

I think you must be thinking of someone else or I'm crazy ... because I have no idea what conversation you're talking about.

Apologies, I've got Rocco on my mind. It was the same argument he was making yesterday. Sorry to come off like that. But my argument remains. After these punishments were handed down, the first thing people did was start worrying that the NCAA was going to run roughshod all over college football and handing out massive penalties for anything they please??

[Pavel Bure]

Would it have made you feel better if the NCAA paid Freeh to investigate PSU and he handed over his exact investigation that he gave PSU? I really don't get the whole "they should have investigated" argument when they had the Freeh report and evidence from a Grand Jury already at their disposal.