Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[columbia]

If due process is someone's real concern is dealing with these disgusting people, then I don't what the hell is wrong with that person.

It's not a court of law.

The NCAA is a private organization.
Due process is irrelevant.

Save your bile for the people who committed and enabled these acts.

[DudeMan2766]

Yeah, I just can't believe instead of accepting the fact that there is more than enough evidence that a coverup of child rape has taken place, and with that comes severe punishments, people are challenging the wording in Freeh's report, his methods, and insinuating that the NCAA knew Penn State couldn't fight back for image purposes and thats the reason they laid the hammer down on them. Like bullying the defenseless.

[Kaizer]

let the punishment fit the crime.

[malkinshair]

That's what I'm not getting. Are people concerned that the investigation/punishment was handled inappropriately and it's a matter of principle? Or are people concerned that PSU is getting screwed in some way here?

It seems that if PSU paid for a report to be done, that said report was used to create a punishment that PSU signed off on, and that the punishment was done expeditiously so that PSU could move forward, what is there to complain about?

PSU's Board of Trustees hired Freeh to investigate the goings-on University-wide with regard to Sandusky, compile a report, and offer recommendations (if needed). The report was never meant to offer 'punishment recommendations' for the NCAA. Freeh held a press conference publicly drawing and quartering Paterno, Schultz, Curley, and Spanier, stating as fact that they knew the extent of Sandusky's horrible acts and covered it up to protect their ability to make money. He had no direct proof of the extent of what they knew, nor their 'motive' for covering it up...but he crafted a narrative to explain both. It's a plausible explanation of what happened.

Once it was public, PSU's hands were tied. What the NCAA did today was unprecedented. They leached on to the Freeh report, and used it to justify levying unprecedented penalties. They threatened a University into accepting the most damaging series of sanctions ever handed down...without so much as a hearing. PSU did the only thing it could, given the current environment. To fight the findings of the Freeh report, to fight the NCAA or the Big 10, to ask for the criminal trials to play out before moving forward, would have all been bombarded by the media.

I wouldn't say that PSU is getting screwed, because, quite honestly, the Freeh report may be spot-on accurate. It could also be assigning blame and motive that simply didn't exist. It's disappointing that most of the people commenting on it haven't read it.

[MWB]

I didn't say the report was constructed to offer "punishment recommendations." However, the NCAA used what was in it to decide the punishment, which PSU signed off on. Your insinuation that PSU just accepted it because they had a gun to their head is just an assumption.

So, you would prefer another investigation that continues to mire the university and the students in this muck for a couple of years?

[malkinshair]

Yeah, I just can't believe instead of accepting the fact that there is more than enough evidence that a coverup of child rape has taken place, and with that comes severe punishments, people are challenging the wording in Freeh's report, his methods, and insinuating that the NCAA knew Penn State couldn't fight back for image purposes and thats the reason they laid the hammer down on them. Like bullying the defenseless.

I don't get how questioning / challenging the Freeh report = defending a child rape cover up.

[malkinshair]

I didn't say the report was constructed to offer "punishment recommendations." However, the NCAA used what was in it to decide the punishment, which PSU signed off on. Your insinuation that PSU just accepted it because they had a gun to their head is just an assumption.

So, you would prefer another investigation that continues to mire the university and the students in this muck for a couple of years?

They are going to be mired in this muck for the foreseeable future anyway. I would have preferred that if the NCAA was going to step in to unprecedented territory, with regard to handing down punishment, they would hang their hat on more than a 'logical explanation' of how and why things took place.

I understand the desire to move quickly...for both the NCAA and PSU. I just can't understand why people refuse to accept criticism of using the Freeh report to administer punishment.

[DudeMan2766]

Yeah, I just can't believe instead of accepting the fact that there is more than enough evidence that a coverup of child rape has taken place, and with that comes severe punishments, people are challenging the wording in Freeh's report, his methods, and insinuating that the NCAA knew Penn State couldn't fight back for image purposes and thats the reason they laid the hammer down on them. Like bullying the defenseless.

I don't get how questioning / challenging the Freeh report = defending a child rape cover up.

C'mon, I didnt say that at all and you know it. I said the evidence is there that this cover up took place. I dont care if it was proved in a court of law or by this investigation or not. It happend. My problem is with people like you tryin to find loopholes for Penn State and Paterno's legacy to maintain any shred of dignity it has left. Like was said before, you act like the Freeh report was written in the guys blog. Using that logic, all we have to convict Sandusky was interviews, investigations and the 12 jurors opinons. Challenging the wording or methods of this investigation is grasping at straws. He found what he found

[DudeMan2766]

I didn't say the report was constructed to offer "punishment recommendations." However, the NCAA used what was in it to decide the punishment, which PSU signed off on. Your insinuation that PSU just accepted it because they had a gun to their head is just an assumption.

So, you would prefer another investigation that continues to mire the university and the students in this muck for a couple of years?

I understand the desire to move quickly...for both the NCAA and PSU. I just can't understand why people refuse to accept criticism of using the Freeh report to administer punishment.

Because the Freeh report was the freaking investigation that determined there was indeed a cover up. How are the damn emails between these guys not enough for you??

If I'm cheating on my girlfriend and she hires a detective to investigate and he interviews multiple women that say they've been with me in the past months and he finds "I love you" text messages I'm sending to these girls, how stupid would I sound if she confronts me and I say "well its just that guys opinion. I havent been accused of cheating on you by a court of law" Or your way, how unfair is it that she leaves me just based on this guys findings??

[shmenguin]

Can't believe people are still engaging with malkinshair

[DudeMan2766]

I dont get sucked in much on this board, but kudos to him hes got me here. Im just really tired of these people that cant accept what happend. Just proves the arrogance that psu was aways tjought to have

[shmenguin]

I don't think people like that say anything about what PSU is all about. You'll find this sort of person everywhere.

[Rocco]

That's what I'm not getting. Are people concerned that the investigation/punishment was handled inappropriately and it's a matter of principle? Or are people concerned that PSU is getting screwed in some way here?

It seems that if PSU paid for a report to be done, that said report was used to create a punishment that PSU signed off on, and that the punishment was done expeditiously so that PSU could move forward, what is there to complain about?

PSU earned their fate. I am concerned when a large organization breaks their own rules to hand down a punishment under nebulous grounds when there are organizations better suited to hand down punishment, with no clear understanding of when or if this process can be used in the future. I'm concerned when an organization seems driven by public opinion, and I'm concerned when an organization's response to a situation caused by massive power being given to one person involves giving massive power to one person.

I seem to remember people initially saying the Freeh report would be a joke since PSU commissioned it.

[malkinshair]

I don't think people like that say anything about what PSU is all about. You'll find this sort of person everywhere.

What sort of person would that be, exactly?

[MWB]

That's what I'm not getting. Are people concerned that the investigation/punishment was handled inappropriately and it's a matter of principle? Or are people concerned that PSU is getting screwed in some way here?

It seems that if PSU paid for a report to be done, that said report was used to create a punishment that PSU signed off on, and that the punishment was done expeditiously so that PSU could move forward, what is there to complain about?

PSU earned their fate. I am concerned when a large organization breaks their own rules to hand down a punishment under nebulous grounds when there are organizations better suited to hand down punishment, with no clear understanding of when or if this process can be used in the future. I'm concerned when an organization seems driven by public opinion, and I'm concerned when an organization's response to a situation caused by massive power being given to one person involves giving massive power to one person.

Thanks, that's logical.

[malkinshair]

I dont get sucked in much on this board, but kudos to him hes got me here. Im just really tired of these people that cant accept what happend. Just proves the arrogance that psu was aways tjought to have

I accept what happened. I accept the absolutely horrid events that took place at the hands of a true monster. It disgusts me to think that I shook the man's hand...around the time that this 'started'. I'm also not denying wrong-doing on the part of any and all in charge at the time. Given the benefit of hindsight, they should have absolutely done more with McQueary's report. It's impossible to look at these events with the benefit of hindsight and NOT think more should have been done. I'm glad that the man will die in jail. I'm glad that, in time, others may join him.

It's not arrogance...I don't have an ounce of arrogance in my body, especially with regard to my affiliation with PSU. I'm not burying my head in the sand, or defending JoePa, or trying to make the current students or players the victims. It's not about football games or being part of a 'dangerous' football culture. It's quite simply about being very uncomfortable with the method Freeh used to come to his conclusions, and then those conclusions being used to justify punishment. That's it. Period. How is that arrogance?

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

The only thing I don't agree with about the sanctions was the vacating of the wins. In the grand scheme of things those wins are meaningless anyways. But like how I consider Hank Aaron as holding the record for career homeruns, I'll consider Paterno as having the record for career coaching victories.

[columbia]

The only thing I don't agree with about the sanctions was the vacating of the wins. In the grand scheme of things those wins are meaningless anyways. But like how I consider Hank Aaron as holding the record for career homeruns, I'll consider Paterno as having the record for career coaching victories.

One way to look at at:

How punitive would the NCAA measures have been, had they not sat down and hashed out an agreement with PSU?
The new president said on ESPN that a 4 year death sentence was on the table.

Pick your poison, I suppose.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Yeah I don't fault Erickson for signing off on the punishment if he was faced with even tougher sanctions by not doing so. The vacating of the wins seemed unnecessary and petty compared to the other punishments.

[Staggy]

The only thing I don't agree with about the sanctions was the vacating of the wins. In the grand scheme of things those wins are meaningless anyways. But like how I consider Hank Aaron as holding the record for career homeruns, I'll consider Paterno as having the record for career coaching victories.

One way to look at at:

How punitive would the NCAA measures have been, had they not sat down and hashed out an agreement with PSU?
The new president said on ESPN that a 4 year death sentence was on the table.

Pick your poison, I suppose.

That also could have been the NCAA bluffing because if they didn't reach an agreement, there's a chance it could have been ruled that the crimes were outside of the NCAA's jurisdiction. But still, that's not a bluff that Erickson was in any position to call.

[DudeMan2766]

Spoiler:

I dont get sucked in much on this board, but kudos to him hes got me here. Im just really tired of these people that cant accept what happend. Just proves the arrogance that psu was aways tjought to have

I accept what happened. I accept the absolutely horrid events that took place at the hands of a true monster. It disgusts me to think that I shook the man's hand...around the time that this 'started'. I'm also not denying wrong-doing on the part of any and all in charge at the time. Given the benefit of hindsight, they should have absolutely done more with McQueary's report. It's impossible to look at these events with the benefit of hindsight and NOT think more should have been done. I'm glad that the man will die in jail. I'm glad that, in time, others may join him.

It's not arrogance...I don't have an ounce of arrogance in my body, especially with regard to my affiliation with PSU. I'm not burying my head in the sand, or defending JoePa, or trying to make the current students or players the victims. It's not about football games or being part of a 'dangerous' football culture. It's quite simply about being very uncomfortable with the method Freeh used to come to his conclusions, and then those conclusions being used to justify punishment. That's it. Period. How is that arrogance?

Heres where I'm not following. You accept that what happend, did happen. You accept that these men were responsible. You accept the punishment. But you DONT accept the way they found out all of the stuff that you admit to accepting? That doesnt make sense. To me thats just a way to throw even the tinyest wrench into the credibility of the investigation. I guess I just don't see what there is to question when you accept all of this. If you believe there was a cover up, by these men, what does the methods used to get these findings matter? Questioning the report and why the report was used in determing punishment, is not accepting all of that. You can't speak out of both sides of your mouth.

[bhaw]

Spoiler:

I dont get sucked in much on this board, but kudos to him hes got me here. Im just really tired of these people that cant accept what happend. Just proves the arrogance that psu was aways tjought to have

I accept what happened. I accept the absolutely horrid events that took place at the hands of a true monster. It disgusts me to think that I shook the man's hand...around the time that this 'started'. I'm also not denying wrong-doing on the part of any and all in charge at the time. Given the benefit of hindsight, they should have absolutely done more with McQueary's report. It's impossible to look at these events with the benefit of hindsight and NOT think more should have been done. I'm glad that the man will die in jail. I'm glad that, in time, others may join him.

It's not arrogance...I don't have an ounce of arrogance in my body, especially with regard to my affiliation with PSU. I'm not burying my head in the sand, or defending JoePa, or trying to make the current students or players the victims. It's not about football games or being part of a 'dangerous' football culture. It's quite simply about being very uncomfortable with the method Freeh used to come to his conclusions, and then those conclusions being used to justify punishment. That's it. Period. How is that arrogance?

Heres where I'm not following. You accept that what happend, did happen. You accept that these men were responsible. You accept the punishment. But you DONT accept the way they found out all of the stuff that you admit to accepting? That doesnt make sense. To me thats just a way to throw even the tinyest wrench into the credibility of the investigation. I guess I just don't see what there is to question when you accept all of this. If you believe there was a cover up, by these men, what does the methods used to get these findings matter? Questioning the report and why the report was used in determing punishment, is not accepting all of that. You can't speak out of both sides of your mouth.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me either. Saying it all happened but disliking the report being used for punishment (which PSU signed off on). Basically drag it out for 4 year in the hopes that there is some technicality to save face? I agree with Rocco that it's pretty concerning that the NCAA went all Roger Goodell on PSU, but other than that? If you don't like the Freeh report being used to punish PSU, go complain to PSU. They authorized it to happen and the NCAA even said that it was a far more thorough investigation than they could have done (shocker that the former head of FBI knows how to do an investigation better than a football organization, right?). So you would rather a poorer quality report, by the NCAA's own admission, determine punishment instead of one that is more thorough?

[DontToewsMeBro]

At least the dangerous culture centered around football at PSU led them to being #1 in the Academic Bowl. Hopefully Emmert sorts that problem out.

[Rylan]

I like when a poster has already expressed my thoughts and I don't ever have to write all that much. Thanks Rocco.

[columbia]

That's what I'm not getting. Are people concerned that the investigation/punishment was handled inappropriately and it's a matter of principle? Or are people concerned that PSU is getting screwed in some way here?

It seems that if PSU paid for a report to be done, that said report was used to create a punishment that PSU signed off on, and that the punishment was done expeditiously so that PSU could move forward, what is there to complain about?

PSU earned their fate. I am concerned when a large organization breaks their own rules to hand down a punishment under nebulous grounds when there are organizations better suited to hand down punishment, with no clear understanding of when or if this process can be used in the future. I'm concerned when an organization seems driven by public opinion, and I'm concerned when an organization's response to a situation caused by massive power being given to one person involves giving massive power to one person.

I seem to remember people initially saying the Freeh report would be a joke since PSU commissioned it.

Why do you keep complaining about the process, when you don't believe that the NCAA had any right to weigh in on it in the first place?