Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[DropEmJayBird]

I dunno, the NCAA is kind of hurting itself with this as well. How many Penn State fans are there around the country that are going to simply stop caring about the sport? Basically the entire city of Philly has nothing else to latch on to for Saturdays in the fall. I don't care about the sport anymore, and I could theoretically watch and go to Pitt games.

uhhh , eh... I think the NCAA could survive in the south alone.

[Rocco]

rocco,

as a man of the legal realm, and as a man of the sports realm, you dont seem to think that the ncaa has the right to penalize the athletic department for ignoring a pedophile. but how can anyone take the ncaa seriously if they just shrug their shoulders and say "hey, it aint our job to punish penn state, just go ahead, fill the 105k seats and get on with it"? how can any ncaa program be ok with those wierdo sanctions that boise state got for those european players if penn state gets caught in the biggest college sports scandal in history and not face any punishment?

kenny the kangaroo is asking this from both a legal and emotional standpoint

The simple answer is that the NCAA is designed to regulate amateurism amongst the colleges. This goes far beyond amateurism and anything else the NCAA generally covers. It's a legal matter. These crimes were vile but they are crimes best handled by the criminal courts, and they're in the process of being handled. That's why the NCAA doesn't punish schools when players or coaches get arrested and instead leaves it to the school. To wit, the NCAA has not punished Arkansas for Bobby Petrino possibly breaking Arkansas hiring laws by bringing on his mistress to his staff. Sometimes it is okay to say something goes beyond your purview.

The NCAA circumvented its own rules to make itself feel better and important. It's pretty much admitted that the NCAA didn't have the power to do what it did had PSU not consented. It bothers me when governing bodies rewrite their rules ad hoc and apply them retroactively to create a precedent they may not necessarily want to create. They blasted PSU for people in power doing things without transparently and have now acted without transparency.

[Malkamaniac]

PSU will survive too.

[DropEmJayBird]

I forgot the USC got a 2 year bowl ban, and lost 10 scholarships for 3 years.

[Nuge]

I just read somewhere that O'Brien doesn't have an out clause. No way this can be true.....right?

Pretty sure that's true.

He'd owe 4million if he leaves.

It was the perfect job for him to take. He comes into an impossible situation so if he fails, he has a built-in excuse and goes back to the NFL and makes millions of dollars. If he succeeds, he takes an NFL head coaching job and makes millions of dollars.

[pfim]

I have a serious question because I honestly don't know.

If Penn State can still play football - still sell tickets - by how much is the revenue stream that people are talking about really affected? I mean to the point that people are saying Penn State is going to take a huge devastating financial hit. If they are still playing home games - is it that they just won't be winning as often that people are considering to be a huge financial burden on the University and it's programs?

If they can't participate in bowls, I doubt they will receive a share of the Big 10 bowl money. That will be significant.

If they can't participate in meaningful football games, eventually they will stop selling out the stadium.

Yet to see if the Big 10 will remove television money from them too.

Just the tip of the iceberg, I'm sure I can think of more.

Okay - so basically then any sanctions for any football program can pretty much be taken off the table then simply because it's going to affect the innocent at the university in terms of the finances, especially post season bans.

Not sure I'm following you here.

[Rocco]

Jay Bilas took Emmert and company to task for slagging Paterno but avoiding mention of Spanier, their fellow President who was on high-ranking committees. It takes Spencer Hall's analogy of beating up a corpse a little further down the road.

[Sarcastic]

I know nothing of Penn State or college football and have virtually zero interest in it, but can someone explain to me why Peterno is so respected as coach? This article states that although he won a huge load of games, he only had 2 national chapionships to his credit in 46 years. Do other colleges win more regularly or is 2 in 46 actually good based on how many colleges there are? Just totally clueless here.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-2 ... alty-.html

[DontToewsMeBro]

When this story is written about in 10 years, the power of the NCAA will be as important an angle as what happened to Penn State.

The victims might be a footnote.

[shafnutz05]

Dejan Kovacevic is also agreeing that this punishment is worse than the death penalty.

[DropEmJayBird]

I have a serious question because I honestly don't know.

If Penn State can still play football - still sell tickets - by how much is the revenue stream that people are talking about really affected? I mean to the point that people are saying Penn State is going to take a huge devastating financial hit. If they are still playing home games - is it that they just won't be winning as often that people are considering to be a huge financial burden on the University and it's programs?

If they can't participate in bowls, I doubt they will receive a share of the Big 10 bowl money. That will be significant.

If they can't participate in meaningful football games, eventually they will stop selling out the stadium.

Yet to see if the Big 10 will remove television money from them too.

Just the tip of the iceberg, I'm sure I can think of more.

Okay - so basically then any sanctions for any football program can pretty much be taken off the table then simply because it's going to affect the innocent at the university in terms of the finances, especially post season bans.

Not sure I'm following you here.

The point is that everyone is talking about how the financial disaster that this ruling is will severely effect the lives of the innocent students at Penn State who were not attending the school during the times at which the University was covering up this situation. If that is the case, then I assume that no type of sanction that involves limiting scholarships a team may give out and a bowl ban can ever be an NCAA sanction - as it affects innocent people far to much.

If 10 scholarship players and a postseason ban is more likely to stop people from going to the stadium so much so that it's going to severely hamper the finances of the program to the point that it will effect every student at PSU - then wow.

The more I see - the more I feel that people are just mad that Penn State's football team won't be as competitive for a few years.

[KennyTheKangaroo]

Jay Bilas took Emmert and company to task for slagging Paterno but avoiding mention of Spanier, their fellow President who was on high-ranking committees. It takes Spencer Hall's analogy of beating up a corpse a little further down the road.

as a follow up to your earlier post, which was a good post and understandable, is there such a thing as a punishment in the ncaa (and against most orginzations) that does not beat up a corpse a little further down the road?

[Malkamaniac]

When this story is written about in 10 years, the power of the NCAA will be as important an angle as what happened to Penn State.

The victims might be a footnote.

Where have you been? They've been a footnote since Paterno got fired.

[Rylan]

I enjoyed some of the self-back patting that occurred in this thread.

[steve784]

PantherLair's twitter is just lulz worthy today:

Maher Sameer Hoque ‏@ajollybengali

@PantherLair what about the schools that played PSU in those years? Does Pitt's 2000 victory not count? Can Pitt's losses get stripped?

PJSJ ‏@BubbieandJesus

.@PantherLair @ChrisDokish Gentlemen, do you believe that this will finally give Pitt the edge it needs in Football recruiting....

Chris Peak ‏@PantherLair

RT @Kevin_Noon: Once this is said and done, Penn State may not even win the WPIAL

[newarenanow]

I know nothing of Penn State or college football and have virtually zero interest in it, but can someone explain to me why Peterno is so respected as coach? This article states that although he won a huge load of games, he only had 2 national chapionships to his credit in 46 years. Do other colleges win more regularly or is 2 in 46 actually good based on how many colleges there are? Just totally clueless here.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-2 ... alty-.html

It is difficult to win national championships with so many schools. Texas is looked at as one of the top FB schools in the country, but has only one 1 national championship in like 50 years. Michigan has 1/2 of one in like 60 years. Florida only has 2 in it's history.

PSU also has like 3 other undefeated seasons where they were not crowned national champs, most recently in 1994.

With 120 programs, and some of them very strong, only having 2 NC in 46 years isn't that bad , considering there were 2 or 3 other years where PSU did everything htey had to do and still weren't named NCs.

[pfim]

Dejan Kovacevic is also agreeing that this punishment is worse than the death penalty.

In 1986, SMU was down but still part of one of the best football conferences out there, and likely would have been part of what became the Big 12.

They couldn't compete for one season and couldn't field at team for another. They wallowed in suckitude and anonymity for about 15 years, became somewhat relevant and are just now joining a conference that has some clout but has been torn apart by two large defections. The money they have missed out on over the last 25 years isn't anything compared to what PSU is forfeiting.

SMU also lost 55 scholarships over 4 seasons when they came back. I don't think people realize things like this when discussing the death penalty. It's not hitting a "reset" button, you still face other sanctions and probation.

It's not even a comparison. Staying in the Big 10 alone is worth not getting the death penalty.

[Rylan]

The victims' kids should be given full rides to Penn State if they so choose to attend, or a scholarship from the school to pay for the education anywhere else.

Profit from athletics should be significantly downgraded to non-profit with the excess going towards charity.

Scholarship reduction. Enough said.

Pay for campaigns against child abuse/misconduct with a child.

Can never downplay the events or expect penalties.

Stuff like that. Probation for up to 10 years. Any significant violation will result in harsh penalties against the school.

I was close. I feel that others patted their backs like crazy I should too.

[Rocco]

Jay Bilas took Emmert and company to task for slagging Paterno but avoiding mention of Spanier, their fellow President who was on high-ranking committees. It takes Spencer Hall's analogy of beating up a corpse a little further down the road.

as a follow up to your earlier post, which was a good post and understandable, is there such a thing as a punishment in the ncaa (and against most orginzations) that does not beat up a corpse a little further down the road?

Yes, you punish the people responsible. The NCAA isn't interested in that, they're interested in putting on a good show and delighting the masses. No one who was actually responsible for the criminal conspiracy at PSU was punished today.

[pfim]

The more I see - the more I feel that people are just mad that Penn State's football team won't be as competitive for a few years.

That's what it is and I agree. The monetary factor is significant though.

[pfim]

Jay Bilas took Emmert and company to task for slagging Paterno but avoiding mention of Spanier, their fellow President who was on high-ranking committees. It takes Spencer Hall's analogy of beating up a corpse a little further down the road.

as a follow up to your earlier post, which was a good post and understandable, is there such a thing as a punishment in the ncaa (and against most orginzations) that does not beat up a corpse a little further down the road?

Yes, you punish the people responsible. The NCAA isn't interested in that, they're interested in putting on a good show and delighting the masses. No one who was actually responsible for the criminal conspiracy at PSU was punished today.

I think it's that, but I also think it's the transient nature of college athletics. I mean, USC can't go unpunished for recruiting violations just because everyone is gone. There has to be some deterrent for the current group, even if the punishment rings hollow.

As far as the NCAA goes here, though. While I think the punishment is justified, the process is ridiculous and sets a dangerous precedent. Not a good day for college athletics.

[KennyTheKangaroo]

Yes, you punish the people responsible. The NCAA isn't interested in that, they're interested in putting on a good show and delighting the masses. No one who was actually responsible for the criminal conspiracy at PSU was punished today.

do you buy into the whole idea that the "culture" at penn state needs to change? Do you think these penalties will help at all?

[DropEmJayBird]

The more I see - the more I feel that people are just mad that Penn State's football team won't be as competitive for a few years.

That's what it is and I agree. The monetary factor is significant though.

Well I'm not sure about the 60 million dollar fine, someone mentioned a 2 billion dollar endowment.. so who knows.

But football will still be played, by 15 (not 25) scholarship players per year, I just don't think this will severely impact the students or education at Penn State. Sure it might not make tailgating as fun, but if that's why they went to Penn State in the first place...

[Rylan]

Yes, you punish the people responsible. The NCAA isn't interested in that, they're interested in putting on a good show and delighting the masses. No one who was actually responsible for the criminal conspiracy at PSU was punished today.

do you buy into the whole idea that the "culture" at penn state needs to change? Do you think these penalties will help at all?

Make a football team terrible for 10 years or so and I believe you won't see as big a zealot following. Still will have those types of fans, but it won't be as wide spread.

[Sarcastic]

I know nothing of Penn State or college football and have virtually zero interest in it, but can someone explain to me why Peterno is so respected as coach? This article states that although he won a huge load of games, he only had 2 national chapionships to his credit in 46 years. Do other colleges win more regularly or is 2 in 46 actually good based on how many colleges there are? Just totally clueless here.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-2 ... alty-.html

It is difficult to win national championships with so many schools. Texas is looked at as one of the top FB schools in the country, but has only one 1 national championship in like 50 years. Michigan has 1/2 of one in like 60 years. Florida only has 2 in it's history.

PSU also has like 3 other undefeated seasons where they were not crowned national champs, most recently in 1994.

With 120 programs, and some of them very strong, only having 2 NC in 46 years isn't that bad , considering there were 2 or 3 other years where PSU did everything htey had to do and still weren't named NCs.

Thanks. That's pretty interesting. I thought there may be like a top 10 among schools that win more (I guess they maybe do, just not the big prize), which then draws in more talent, which enables them to win even more. But I guess considering the size of a football roster, there is too much crap to go around as well, which affects the whole team. 1 in 50, 2 in 46, etc., isn't too promising.