Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[Kaizer]

Funny, but my eyes are wide open on this issue. I'm looking for who knew what and when.

Maybe you'd also like to go help OJ find the real killer.

[Rocco]

Clean? Maybe personally, but I can't imagine how much money the team loses from sponsorship, boosters, etc by pinning all on the guy who built the football program and a good chunk of the school. Pinning it on Joe seems like the worst option for PSU out of all the potential options other than there won't be much of a fight. Sorry Rocco, in terms of "clean solutions" pinning it on JoePa is probably the least clean you could come up with. Of course, it's probably easier for people to blame it on conspiracy than the fact that it may have actually happened.

I'd say not having much of a fight is something noteworthy. That's why supposedly PSU won't appeal any penalties they get from Emmert pulling a Roger Goodell. So far anyone who's disagreed with the Freeh report or the conclusion that it's on Paterno has been condescendingly told to stop talking (which is ironic, because not talking was the problem here).

It's much cleaner to have it all pinned on one football coach who was in his position too long and grew too powerful than it is to have more people involved. After all, if Paterno was the problem and the only problem, Paterno's gone now so the problem is solved. There's a reason why the focal point of everything has been Paterno. And it's entirely possible everything about his involvement is true, and that he was the mastermind. It's also true that he gave sworn testimony saying otherwise and everything contradicting his testimony came out after his death. That's why I wrote that Paterno's last act for PSU will be to take as much blame for this as he can posthumously.

I don't think anyone has used the word "mastermind" and JoePa together. Freeh also didn't say, in any way, that JoePa was the ring leader. It actually blamed all those guys equally. So I'm not sure how the report points to Joe as being the only guy involved.

There's been a strong assertion both from Freeh and the media that Paterno was the one who convinced the other 3 to not go to the police in 2001. If you want to say that Freeh didn't say that and it's the media saying that, go for it.

[malkinshair]

I also don't think that they knew JS was raping little boys in their showers and decided to cover it up to keep a cash cow up and running.

Spoiler:

I am going to run that image into the ground if you keep this up.

Knock yourself out.

[DudeMan2766]

I feel like now is a good time to re-hash this.

Funny, but my eyes are wide open on this issue. I'm looking for who knew what and when. I want reasons for their behavior, if they knew definitely what was going on. I want to hear from the people involved before passing judgement. I want the Feds to determine whether Schultz and Curley perjured themselves. I want the NCAA to initiate their own due process before determining what punishment should be handed down. I want the media to do their job. What, exactly, is wrong with that line of thinking? Since when is wanting all the facts on the table considered burying your head in the sand?

Again, they could do 15 more investigations and people like you are just going to say "well we just want all the facts." I dont need to know every word that the 4 of them spoke during these years and the context and facial expressions they used to say to pretty much figure out, given all the info out there, that they knew Sandusky was, at the very least, doing inappropriate things with kids, to the extent they told him not to bring kids onto the campus anymore, and they did nothing else to stop it. If I ever had to tell a grown man not to bring little boys to my property any more, right there I know enough that something needs reported.

[shafnutz05]

That culture is gone, whether or not football is played

Did you see the people lose their minds about changing the name of Paternoville? How many people have you heard say that 'this is being blown out of proportion'? Internally things are different, but the culture of reverence for PSU Football is not gone.

As I stated clearly in the portion of my post you didn't copy and paste, football will always be revered at Penn State. No death penalty is going to change that. Culturally, people are still going to cheer for the football team.

As you yourself admitted, institutionally, that university will never be like that again.

[MRandall25]

So saying "I don't think they knew Sandusky was raping boys", even though there CLEARLY is evidence pointing to that fact, is having your "eyes wide open"?

Uh huh...

[bhaw]

malkinshair's argument is awesome. Everyone is self-serving in their comments: Freeh, the media, the "PSU haters," etc so their comments shouldn't be trusted as fact. The only person he's willing to take their word on are the people accused, because clearly they have no reason to be self-serving in what they say about the whole thing.

So if Spanier got on the stand and claimed he knew nothing, regardless of anything else out there, that's the facts. Awesome world to live in. Everyone is dishonest but the people who were involved.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

Put it this way...what if Freeh had come out and said 'We found 2 suspicious emails and other documents, along with information gathered through hundreds of interviews, that could point to JoePa knowing about 1998, and the 4 of them knowing and covering up the 2001 incident. However, given that we did not have access to interview any of the principle people involved, and cannot determine the reasons for their actions, I cannot definitively say what these 4 men knew, or why they acted the way they did'. Read the report...this would have been a much more responsible conclusion to come to. Why hasn't the media questioned the validity of the conclusions?

They would've just jumped on him as a PSU apologist and defender then.

You do realize the emails were not all that vague and specifically stated they would work with Sandusky instead of going to the police? And in the grand jury part of the trial Joe admits to hearing about the molestation of boys in the shower. Regardless of anything after the fact (and this was the 2nd time there was issues with Sandusky) the knowingly let a predator walk on campus and have access to children.

I understand the point but the emails are hardly as vague as everyone is acting, especially combined with the previous testimony. Spin it all you want all Joe did in the grand jury was admit to everything but effectively pass the blame.

[columbia]

I still don't understand why any person would be worried about the fate of the football team.
They'll take their lumps tomorrow and life will go on.

If some booster or fan boy is upset by the result, who gives a ****?

I just want to see Penn State concentrate on what's important: teaching, research and preparing their students to fare well in the world.

[shafnutz05]

Definitely seeing both extremes here

[Guinness]

I just want to see Penn State universities concentrate on what's important: teaching, research and preparing their students to fare well in the world.

[columbia]

I just want to see Penn State universities concentrate on what's important: teaching, research and preparing their students to fare well in the world.

That too.

[malkinshair]

malkinshair's argument is awesome. Everyone is self-serving in their comments: Freeh, the media, the "PSU haters," etc so their comments shouldn't be trusted as fact. The only person he's willing to take their word on are the people accused, because clearly they have no reason to be self-serving in what they say about the whole thing.

So if Spanier got on the stand and claimed he knew nothing, regardless of anything else out there, that's the facts. Awesome world to live in. Everyone is dishonest but the people who were involved.

Wow...where did I say that I'd be willing to take their word over anyone elses? I'd be more skeptical of anything they'd have to say than I would of someone like Freeh. My point all along has been that it's ridiculous to claim you know the whole story before the whole story has been told. I'm not siding with Penn State, or Schultz, Curley, Spanier, or Paterno, even though it's convenient for you (and others) to paint that picture. What's the harm in letting the full story come out, then coming to a decision about what to do with the program?

I don't like the Freeh report because of how he came to his conclusion, not the conclusions themselves. Why is that so hard to understand?

[DudeMan2766]

Knowing that there was a coverup of child molestation should be enough story for you.

[Bioshock]

Wow, this topic got radioactive.

Just gonna say, in my opinion, Paterno, Spanier, Sandusky and Curley are all guilty for what they did for vastly different reasons and the all encompassing atmosphere of football before all else enabled this situation to happen. Yes, this is about those four but at the same time you have to crush the mentality that remains at that university. That is why crushing the football culture is a must as well as crushing those 4, even if one of them is dead.

And don't say that culture no longer exists. It does. I have friends as acquaintances where that culture still pervades even now with them.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

malkinshair's argument is awesome. Everyone is self-serving in their comments: Freeh, the media, the "PSU haters," etc so their comments shouldn't be trusted as fact. The only person he's willing to take their word on are the people accused, because clearly they have no reason to be self-serving in what they say about the whole thing.

So if Spanier got on the stand and claimed he knew nothing, regardless of anything else out there, that's the facts. Awesome world to live in. Everyone is dishonest but the people who were involved.

Wow...where did I say that I'd be willing to take their word over anyone elses? I'd be more skeptical of anything they'd have to say than I would of someone like Freeh. My point all along has been that it's ridiculous to claim you know the whole story before the whole story has been told. I'm not siding with Penn State, or Schultz, Curley, Spanier, or Paterno, even though it's convenient for you (and others) to paint that picture. What's the harm in letting the full story come out, then coming to a decision about what to do with the program?

I don't like the Freeh report because of how he came to his conclusion, not the conclusions themselves. Why is that so hard to understand?

Because enough facts are already present from grand jury testimony and the report. You are the one who is conveniently only referencing what can be considered "loose" evidence and not other aspects of the case or exact things said in emails. Not the media or us but you.

Who cares what the "full story" is. What else can they tell us? Short of JoePa being tied up and beaten and his family held hostage in exchange for quiet, as well as the other clowns there is no excuse for hiding this. None. Who cares who should have gone to the cops. Its already been proven and ADMITTED that they all had knowledge he was molesting boys and didnt go to the cops and there was a cover up.

What else do you want?

[viva la ben]

Penn State will not appeal or sustantially challenge mondays sanctions

http://blog.pennlive.com/davidjones/201 ... l_nca.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Staggy]

I agree that institutionally, Penn State needs to put football in its proper place, not at the forefront of the University. I don't get why the football culture needs to be stomped out of the fans though. They love their team, just like many people here love the Penguins, except it's a closer bond because you can walk around campus and see all the players, sometimes have a couple of them in your classes, and you attend every game. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

[DontToewsMeBro]

Bioshock you make PSU football fans sound like some kind of cult. There is no difference between Penn State fans and fans of other big-time college schools, or even the Steelers. Wanting to "crush" the mentality is absurd and quite impossible with our national culture.

A lot of Penn State fans are hurt, confused, and justly angry at what has transpired. Joe made horrible decisions in his life, there is no doubt, but did a lot of good as well. Twenty times more good than I will ever accomplish in my own time sadly. He really did help turn this place from a small farmers college into a huge university. No matter what he did we Penn State students still owe a lot to him in a way. In no way do I " idolize" anybody but I can recognize his importance in the way this school was ran. Even if Paterno's "success with honor" was a facade, does that change the way the graduated athletes, the students, and the faculty carried themselves over that time?

[Bioshock]

Bioshock you make PSU football fans sound like some kind of cult. There is no difference between Penn State fans and fans of other big-time college schools, or even the Steelers. Wanting to "crush" the mentality is absurd and quite impossible with our national culture.

A lot of Penn State fans are hurt, confused, and justly angry at what has transpired. Joe made horrible decisions in his life, there is no doubt, but did a lot of good as well. Twenty times more good than I will ever accomplish in my own time sadly. He really did help turn this place from a small farmers college into a huge university. No matter what he did we Penn State students still owe a lot to him in a way. In no way do I " idolize" anybody but I can recognize his importance in the way this school was ran. Even if Paterno's "success with honor" was a facade, does that change the way the graduated athletes, the students, and the faculty carried themselves over that time?

I think the other colleges and the worship of the Steelers are sick as well. You ever see the article about the ND women being raped and told to keep quiet? Yeah, that might be your next huge scandal. You aren't one of those people who idolize Joe but i know others who do. I also know Steelers fans who would rather have wins above all else. Same goes for any sporting leagues. When it becomes more than just entertainment is when it becomes dangerous.

Here is the Notre Dame Article:
http://deadspin.com/5897809/this-is-wha ... ulting-you" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DontToewsMeBro]

I don't think it's "worship", but I can't argue your own opinion. As long as your views are consistent, I understand. I don't think the obsession with sports in our culture is necessarily unhealthy, but when you're talking about college athletics I think you're right. Colleges should exist to educate, and with the rise of college football Division I schools exist to profit.

[Bioshock]

I don't think it's "worship", but I can't argue your own opinion. As long as your views are consistent, I understand. I don't think the obsession with sports in our culture is necessarily unhealthy, but when you're talking about college athletics I think you're right. Colleges should exist to educate, and with the rise of college football Division I schools exist to profit.

Completely agree. That is why i laugh anytime they call these guys student athletes. It's a business and any school who says otherwise is feeding you a line.

[DontToewsMeBro]

I don't think it's "worship", but I can't argue your own opinion. As long as your views are consistent, I understand. I don't think the obsession with sports in our culture is necessarily unhealthy, but when you're talking about college athletics I think you're right. Colleges should exist to educate, and with the rise of college football Division I schools exist to profit.

Completely agree. That is why i laugh anytime they call these guys student athletes. It's a business and any school who says otherwise is feeding you a line.

I use to see it that way before I came to this school. I personally know a football player who works out over 40 hours per week and maintains a 4.0 GPA in the hard sciences. He was a TA of mine. Some of these kids are the real deal, especially at schools in the B1G, ACC, ND, Ivy league, etc. I have a lot of respect for what they do. But this is neither here nor there.

Raise up the pitchforks and continue with your banter.

[Pops16]

There hasn't been any testimony. Freeh's report isn't "testimony". No sworn evidence was taken and no one has testified. The testimony will come in the Curley/Schultz trial when they use as a defense that Paterno told them not to talk.

Freeh's report poured over a ton of testimony, upon which he based many of his conclusions. So there was sworn evidence, just not taken by Freeh.

[Bioshock]

I don't think it's "worship", but I can't argue your own opinion. As long as your views are consistent, I understand. I don't think the obsession with sports in our culture is necessarily unhealthy, but when you're talking about college athletics I think you're right. Colleges should exist to educate, and with the rise of college football Division I schools exist to profit.

Completely agree. That is why i laugh anytime they call these guys student athletes. It's a business and any school who says otherwise is feeding you a line.

I use to see it that way before I came to this school. I personally know a football player who works out over 40 hours per week and maintains a 4.0 GPA in the hard sciences. He was a TA of mine. Some of these kids are the real deal, especially at schools in the B1G, ACC, ND, Ivy league, etc. I have a lot of respect for what they do. But this is neither here nor there.

Raise up the pitchforks and continue with your banter.

Gotta say, sure is interesting to debate this though huh?