Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[columbia]

What's the over/under on Bill O'Brien saying adios?

[Bioshock]

I don't understand. What could be more damaging than the Death Penalty? This is about wiping out the culture of "Football above all else" that pervades everywhere up there. If football is still played then little is done to change the atmosphere that caused all this.

[shafnutz05]

That culture is gone, whether or not football is played

[mac5155]

It would fit the theme if they had to give up wins.

[mac5155]

It would fit the theme if they had to give up wins.

[Bioshock]

That culture is gone, whether or not football is played

Not really sure about that dude. I have friends who are Penn State Alumni and they still worship Paterno and think the Freeh report and all this is just garbage and a smear campaign.

[columbia]

It would fit the theme if they had to give up wins.

Considering that Sandusky was indicted 5 days after Paterno's record-setting victory...it would.

[shafnutz05]

That culture is gone, whether or not football is played

Not really sure about that dude. I have friends who are Penn State Alumni and they still worship Paterno and think the Freeh report and all this is just garbage and a smear campaign.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are idiots out there, including my own friends.

I was more referring to institutionally. Culturally, football will ALWAYS be huge there, death penalty or no. Institutionally, that attitude will never exist again, and the coach will never have as much power as Paterno and others had.

[shmenguin]

If the NCAA is dropping the hammer, they're saying that while a few individuals were directly responsible, the athletic program as a whole is still on the hook. And while the punishment isnt going to deter sexual predators, it is going to send a message to shools that the program is responsible for the actions of those that are a part of it. And that allowing a small group of people to take the fall isnt going to cut it.

Cant say I disagree with that approach.

[malkinshair]

This absolutely disgusts me....obviously not as much as Sandusky, but...

When did we allow the media to become more powerful than the truth, or the justice system? When did we allow the media to think for us, speak for us, and force us to make decisions? Why is the vast majority of the populous commenting on this 'coverup' ignoring the fact that nothing definitive has been proven? Why are governing bodies (NCAA) preparing to dish out harsh penalties without due process (or even an investigation), and everyone's okay with it? Why are we all accepting the Freeh report as gospel truth, when it clearly represents, at best, an incomplete look at the situation? Why are we all calling for blood when no one but those involved knows what really happened, who knew what and when, and why they chose to act (or not act) the way they did? What do we do if Schultz and Curly are found 'Not Guilty' of perjury?

I'm not against removing the statue, if and when Paterno's knowledge and inaction are proven through more than 2 vague emails. I'm not against punishment for the football program, if and when it's warranted. The fact is, though, no one, at this point, can be expected to realistically determine what is appropriate punishment...can they? The only document that exists that suggests wrong-doing doesn't include 1 interview with any of the 4 primary 'offenders'. Is that how we determine the truth now? We find dots that aren't connected, then create a scenario that does connect them, then consider that truth? Can't you connect those same dots by saying that none of the 4 actually believed that these things were happening? Wouldn't that do just as good of a job at explaining why they acted the way they did?

That's the world we live in. That's the media of today. Let's take the most horrible story you could imagine, and try to make it worse.

[viva la ben]

So you think the freeh report is garbage and a smear campaign then?

[DudeMan2766]

You sound like Jay Paterno. I'm not going to rehash whats been posted over and over in this thread, but the Freeh report included a little more than "2 emails" Its not the media's fault and its not Joe Pa just "taking the fall for everything" as someone else pointed out.

[steve784]

Well said malkinshair. The statue going down doesn't bother me, the sanctions don't bother me. What bothers me is the knee jerk reactions being taken to appease the pitchforkers and the media.

[MWB]

That culture is gone, whether or not football is played

Not really sure about that dude. I have friends who are Penn State Alumni and they still worship Paterno and think the Freeh report and all this is just garbage and a smear campaign.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are idiots out there, including my own friends.

I was more referring to institutionally. Culturally, football will ALWAYS be huge there, death penalty or no. Institutionally, that attitude will never exist again, and the coach will never have as much power as Paterno and others had.

I would hope so, but I don't know how you can be so sure of that.

[shafnutz05]

Well of course I'm not 100% sure. But I'm extremely skeptical that after the horrific nature of this incident and how it has completely destroyed the school's reputation forever, that the same institutional problem will ever exist again.

[columbia]

Well of course I'm not 100% sure. But I'm extremely skeptical that after the horrific nature of this incident and how it has completely destroyed the school's reputation forever, that the same institutional problem will ever exist again.

The real concern is whether another collegiate athletic program will be able to do as they please and get away with anything they want.

I expect that to happen again and that it is happening as we speak.

The problem at PSU was that the "do whatever we please" was so horrific.

[malkinshair]

So you think the freeh report is garbage and a smear campaign then?

Not at all...but I think that it was extremely irresponsible and self-serving for Freeh to hold a press conference declaring its contents 'confirmed truth'. It doesn't, at all. It is filled with conjecture, opinion, and assumption. It didn't have to stand up to the burden of proof of a court of law, and the media didn't question the drawing of conclusions.

The Freeh reports may explain everything as it actually happened, or it may be completely wrong in its analysis. You don't know for sure, nor do I...yet the heavy hand of punishment and retribution is about to be dropped on the University and its football program. Does that seem just?

[DudeMan2766]

Its not like Freeh just sat down at his desk and came up with a story 20 minutes later. there was a NINE MONTH INVESTIGATION. Its about as close to the truth as we're ever going to know. Using your logic Sandusky could say the prosecutions claims were nothing but opinion and the media is what forced a guilty verdict. Like I said, you sound exactly like the Paterno family.

"Oh well we just want the truth to come out"
(People testify that Joe knew what was going on)
"Well we';re just waiting for the truth"
(The Freeh report digs deep and finds there was a coverup)
"Well thats all opinion we're just waiting for the facts"

[ILikeTurtles]

What bothers me about this entire scandal is Sandusky was interviewed by an investigator in 1998 and promised that he wouldn't shower with little boys anymore. After this the man was still granted permission to have full access to the Penn State facilities. That is the same as having an alcoholic promise he won't ever drink again then tossing him the keys to a bar and turning your back and expecting him to never drink a single drop. Had some one stepped up and banished Sandusky after the first hint of child molestation all this Joe Paterno stuff would have never come around. That being said after JoePa told his higher ups and when they did nothing he should have gone directly to the police. He is still at fault if what came out in the Feesh report is true, but he would have never been put in the situation had Sandusky been banished after the first scare.

[columbia]

I sure hope the "facts" aren't even worse than we have learned to this point.

[DudeMan2766]

And i love these apologists they interviewed on ESPN. These idiots who are crying "there are more important things going on and people are fighting over a statue" "Think of the victims and everyones worried about a statue"...are the same people they were out there sleeping to protect it and protesting. If its 'just a statue' then why do you care if it stays or goes. Bottom line, a statue is meant to idolize someone, you don't idolize a person after this.

[Rocco]

Its not like Freeh just sat down at his desk and came up with a story 20 minutes later. there was a NINE MONTH INVESTIGATION. Its about as close to the truth as we're ever going to know. Using your logic Sandusky could say the prosecutions claims were nothing but opinion and the media is what forced a guilty verdict. Like I said, you sound exactly like the Paterno family.

"Oh well we just want the truth to come out"
(People testify that Joe knew what was going on)
"Well we';re just waiting for the truth"
(The Freeh report digs deep and finds there was a coverup)
"Well thats all opinion we're just waiting for the facts"

There hasn't been any testimony. Freeh's report isn't "testimony". No sworn evidence was taken and no one has testified. The testimony will come in the Curley/Schultz trial when they use as a defense that Paterno told them not to talk.

[steve784]

There hasn't been any testimony. Freeh's report isn't "testimony". No sworn evidence was taken and no one has testified. The testimony will come in the Curley/Schultz trial when they use as a defense that Paterno told them not to talk.

This. Deserved or not, I would like to see all of the facts come out (and no, they haven't all come out if these guys haven't been interviewed yet) before the NCAA starts handing down 'unprecedented' penalties with no official investigation or due process.

[DontToewsMeBro]

True or not (probably more of the former), the media never questioned the findings of the Freeh report because it told them exactly what they wanted to hear.

This story really shows how powerful our media is in modern culture. Of course this is a relatively small story on the cosmic scale of things, but if something like this happens in our national government again, I would definitely be afraid of the media's power to sway the public in an instant. They have permanently painted the culture of the town I live in. It's as if they fit all of us inside a box and no matter how much we shouted and protested, that is how everyone else will see us anyway.

[malkinshair]

You sound like Jay Paterno. I'm not going to rehash whats been posted over and over in this thread, but the Freeh report included a little more than "2 emails" Its not the media's fault and its not Joe Pa just "taking the fall for everything" as someone else pointed out.

I'm not defending any of the PSU people involved. I'm not saying that they didn't know anything. I'm not saying that JoePa was blameless in all of this, or that all 4 of them knew what was going on and covered it up to keep the cash flowing, etc. etc. Personally, I think the 'truth' is somewhere in the middle.

I'm saying that the Freeh report doesn't prove any of this. I'm saying that the media is willing to overlook that little fact in order to feed a bigger and worse story. I'm also saying that the NCAA is willing to ignore that fact and use it to levy 'appropriate' punishment against the football program.

Put it this way...what if Freeh had come out and said 'We found 2 suspicious emails and other documents, along with information gathered through hundreds of interviews, that could point to JoePa knowing about 1998, and the 4 of them knowing and covering up the 2001 incident. However, given that we did not have access to interview any of the principle people involved, and cannot determine the reasons for their actions, I cannot definitively say what these 4 men knew, or why they acted the way they did'. Read the report...this would have been a much more responsible conclusion to come to. Why hasn't the media questioned the validity of the conclusions?