you really got THAT out of my post?count2infinity wrote:some are guilty, therefor all are guilty. gotcha.shmenguin wrote:if the guys at the top of the house are capable of all this, there are implications about their day-to-day decision making that transcend athletics or the limited number of offenders.count2infinity wrote:How is it that people can't comprehend the limited number of people that are guilty in this case from those that had no role in it? It just blows my mind.
not that i think this sort of attitude is limited to PSU. people that run big businesses are generally pretty evil bastards.
Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Haha, yeah, I gotta say all I got out of it was that major universities are akin to major corporations.........and that is a problem. I totally agree.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Give all of the proceeds from a year's worth of football revenue and set up some sort of "child abuse" educational center?columbia wrote:Does the level of moral failure require the university do something beyond firing those involved? If so, what should that be?
(Getting sued doesn't really rate as an act of contrition, IMO.)
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if this came out about more universities. Maybe not to the extent of the Penn State scandal, but Penn State more than likely isn't the only university with skeltons in its' closets.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
then what are you trying to say? all big athletics and big businesses are evil? most of them are? what exactly is your point?shmenguin wrote:you really got THAT out of my post?count2infinity wrote:some are guilty, therefor all are guilty. gotcha.shmenguin wrote:if the guys at the top of the house are capable of all this, there are implications about their day-to-day decision making that transcend athletics or the limited number of offenders.count2infinity wrote:How is it that people can't comprehend the limited number of people that are guilty in this case from those that had no role in it? It just blows my mind.
not that i think this sort of attitude is limited to PSU. people that run big businesses are generally pretty evil bastards.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Sure.Factorial wrote:Give all of the proceeds from a year's worth of football revenue and set up some sort of "child abuse" educational center?columbia wrote:Does the level of moral failure require the university do something beyond firing those involved? If so, what should that be?
(Getting sued doesn't really rate as an act of contrition, IMO.)
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
I would venture to guess that is a given.llipgh2 wrote:Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if this came out about more universities. Maybe not to the extent of the Penn State scandal, but Penn State more than likely isn't the only university with skeltons in its' closets.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
That's a pretty good idea.Factorial wrote:Give all of the proceeds from a year's worth of football revenue and set up some sort of "child abuse" educational center?
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
I'm trying to picture what such a center would look like.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Yeah, maybe not a center, maybe some sort of fund.......because I keep picturing the Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Goodshafnutz05 wrote:I'm trying to picture what such a center would look like.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
well first off, i don't really care much about PSU either way. i've casually rooted for them in the past because my dad's from the altoona area and likes them, but i have no agenda here. so i'm not one of these Pitt people who are piling on.count2infinity wrote:then what are you trying to say? all big athletics and big businesses are evil? most of them are? what exactly is your point?shmenguin wrote:you really got THAT out of my post?count2infinity wrote:some are guilty, therefor all are guilty. gotcha.shmenguin wrote:if the guys at the top of the house are capable of all this, there are implications about their day-to-day decision making that transcend athletics or the limited number of offenders.count2infinity wrote:How is it that people can't comprehend the limited number of people that are guilty in this case from those that had no role in it? It just blows my mind.
not that i think this sort of attitude is limited to PSU. people that run big businesses are generally pretty evil bastards.
i guess i had 2 points. the easy one is that big businesses (like universities) are capable of some horrible things. so none of this has been surprising at all. the second point is that the decisions of the people at the top of an organization can easily tarnish everything below them, since they are ultimately responsible for establishing or maintaining the culture of that organization. of course people who aren't part of that small group of offenders aren't guilty of anything. and i'm generally opposed to throwing the book at the football program because of how it will affect the humungous number of people who did nothing wrong. but back to my point, if i were a PSU alum, i would absolutely feel less passionate about football right now.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
PSU is already in the process of instituting stronger controls to prevent something like this from ever happening again. The school has started training all those that interact with children on what to do if they encounter what they believe to be child abuse and how to report it. They will likely follow most if not all of the recommendations made in the Freeh report as well.
I except them to setup a fund to pay for those that were abused by Sandusky. I believe I've heard that the money used to pay Sandusky's victims will not come from tution, grants, or donations, so that pretty much means that proceeds from the football program and other sports programs will be funding Sandusky's victims.
I except them to setup a fund to pay for those that were abused by Sandusky. I believe I've heard that the money used to pay Sandusky's victims will not come from tution, grants, or donations, so that pretty much means that proceeds from the football program and other sports programs will be funding Sandusky's victims.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
I'm half employee, half student of the university. We've been contacted numerous times to review the policies, and all employees are required (or at least this is what they told us) to read through and fill out paper work showing we understand the policies and we are also all required to submit approval for background checks to be done.Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:PSU is already in the process of instituting stronger controls to prevent something like this from ever happening again. The school has started training all those that interact with children on what to do if they encounter what they believe to be child abuse and how to report it. They will likely follow most if not all of the recommendations made in the Freeh report as well.
I except them to setup a fund to pay for those that were abused by Sandusky. I believe I've heard that the money used to pay Sandusky's victims will not come from tution, grants, or donations, so that pretty much means that proceeds from the football program and other sports programs will be funding Sandusky's victims.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
For those college football fans, I've got an interesting question...
Would paying college athletes (using some sort of salary cap) help avoid this problem. Right now you're recruiting based on image, that's why this was covered up. You wouldn't see a pro team with an assistant accused of assault try to cover it up, or quietly let the guy slip out the side door. That pro team still has the same dough available to pay its players and lets face it, money, playing time, and a chance to win are the defining factors in signing free agents. If colleges were in the same boat, and could sign players to four year contracts, would this emphasis on a squeaky clean image be reduced?
Would paying college athletes (using some sort of salary cap) help avoid this problem. Right now you're recruiting based on image, that's why this was covered up. You wouldn't see a pro team with an assistant accused of assault try to cover it up, or quietly let the guy slip out the side door. That pro team still has the same dough available to pay its players and lets face it, money, playing time, and a chance to win are the defining factors in signing free agents. If colleges were in the same boat, and could sign players to four year contracts, would this emphasis on a squeaky clean image be reduced?
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
No and here is why:CBear3 wrote:For those college football fans, I've got an interesting question...
Would paying college athletes (using some sort of salary cap) help avoid this problem.
You're not having a draft of high schoolers. They would still be picking schools based on same sorts of things (chance to get to pros, top opponents, national tv, chance at title, large crowds).
If University A had a lousy PR image because of some scandal, they'd have to pay players more to go there. That would be much harder to do with a salary cap. Same reason free agents tend to stay away from places like Oakland and Miami. They have to overpay to get guys to go there.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Here is the link to the full Freeh report.
http://i.usatoday.net/news/nation/2012- ... report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The report states that no one in a position of power at Penn State had any knowledge of Sandusky's potential sexual abuse of children until 1998. The 1998 incident is first described in detail on page 41.
The incident that occurred in 1998 involved Sandusky bear hugging a child from behind while they were both showering and then lifting the child up and the child's back was touching Sandusky's chest and his feet touching Sandusky's thigh. No penetration occurred during this incident.
The mother of the child then contacted the University Police who initially investigated the matter. The University Police (UP) reported the incident to the PA Department of Public Welfare (DPW). The UP also contacted the Centre County Prosecutor. A counselor of the DPW wrote a report with an opinion that the incident with Sandusky was not sexual abuse and does not appear to be behavior consistent with a sexual predator. The State College Police then investigated the matter, which involved a series of recordings of Sandusky's conversations with the victim's mother. After the State College investigation the DA, Ray Gricar, decided not to prosecute largely based on the report by the PA DPW.
So in 1998, not only was the UP Police and State College Police involved in the investigation, but the PA DPW was involved as well, and based on these investigations these parties felt there was not enough evidence to prove that Sandusky was guilty of a crime.
As for Ray Gricar, I've posted an article earlier in this thread that shows that his subsequent disappearance 7 years later in 2005 was more likely due to his involvement in the prosecution of those involved in a heroin ring.
The Freeh report also states that there was no evidence available that led them to believe that Sandusky's subsequent retirement in 1999 occurred as a result of the 1998 incident.
I'll give details on how Freeh came to the conclusion that Paterno knew of the 1998 investigation in a later post.
http://i.usatoday.net/news/nation/2012- ... report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The report states that no one in a position of power at Penn State had any knowledge of Sandusky's potential sexual abuse of children until 1998. The 1998 incident is first described in detail on page 41.
The incident that occurred in 1998 involved Sandusky bear hugging a child from behind while they were both showering and then lifting the child up and the child's back was touching Sandusky's chest and his feet touching Sandusky's thigh. No penetration occurred during this incident.
The mother of the child then contacted the University Police who initially investigated the matter. The University Police (UP) reported the incident to the PA Department of Public Welfare (DPW). The UP also contacted the Centre County Prosecutor. A counselor of the DPW wrote a report with an opinion that the incident with Sandusky was not sexual abuse and does not appear to be behavior consistent with a sexual predator. The State College Police then investigated the matter, which involved a series of recordings of Sandusky's conversations with the victim's mother. After the State College investigation the DA, Ray Gricar, decided not to prosecute largely based on the report by the PA DPW.
So in 1998, not only was the UP Police and State College Police involved in the investigation, but the PA DPW was involved as well, and based on these investigations these parties felt there was not enough evidence to prove that Sandusky was guilty of a crime.
As for Ray Gricar, I've posted an article earlier in this thread that shows that his subsequent disappearance 7 years later in 2005 was more likely due to his involvement in the prosecution of those involved in a heroin ring.
The Freeh report also states that there was no evidence available that led them to believe that Sandusky's subsequent retirement in 1999 occurred as a result of the 1998 incident.
I'll give details on how Freeh came to the conclusion that Paterno knew of the 1998 investigation in a later post.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Is this really going to happen? If so, I think it's a great thing. However, I find it hard to believe as it would be an admission of guilt and would open them up to further civil suits I would think.Sam's Drunk Dog wrote: I except them to setup a fund to pay for those that were abused by Sandusky. I believe I've heard that the money used to pay Sandusky's victims will not come from tution, grants, or donations, so that pretty much means that proceeds from the football program and other sports programs will be funding Sandusky's victims.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Yep.Troy Loney wrote:Question to PSU'ers.
Are you guys still going to wake up saturday mornings this fall, start blasting the PSU Fight song and get waisted watching college football all day?
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Details on how Freeh came to the conclusion that Paterno knew of the 1998 investigation:
The report states that on May 5, 1998 Curely was made aware of the investigation of Sandusky by Schultz. Curley then later that day emailed Schultz and Spanier with the caption of "Joe Paterno". The content of the email states that "I have touched base with the coach. Keep us posted. Thanks." There is nothing in the report to explain exactly what Curley spoke about with Paterno.
Another email from Curley to Schultz on May 13, 1998 with the title of "Jerry" states that "Anything new in this department? Coach is anxious to know where it stands." The report states that the reference to Coach is believed to be Paterno, but Sandusky was also still a coach at the time and it could be argued that he was referring to Sandusky and not Paterno.
Lastly, the report mentions that there was no evidence found to indicate that the results of the conclusion of the 1998 investigation were reported to Paterno. The opinion of the report is that Paterno would have known about the investigation because he was in control of the football facilities and knew "everything that was going on".
Although there is some indication that Paterno was aware of the 1998 incident, there is no concrete evidence that Paterno knew of what Sandusky did or that he was being investigated.
Based on the conclusions of the investigation by the UP Police, DPW, DA, and SC Police, I don't see that Penn State did anything criminal prior to 2001. In my view Penn State should have monitored Sandusky more closely after 1998 and the school did not do enough to review Sandusky's actions and involvement with children on Penn State Campus.
I'll give my opinions of the 2001 incident later.
The report states that on May 5, 1998 Curely was made aware of the investigation of Sandusky by Schultz. Curley then later that day emailed Schultz and Spanier with the caption of "Joe Paterno". The content of the email states that "I have touched base with the coach. Keep us posted. Thanks." There is nothing in the report to explain exactly what Curley spoke about with Paterno.
Another email from Curley to Schultz on May 13, 1998 with the title of "Jerry" states that "Anything new in this department? Coach is anxious to know where it stands." The report states that the reference to Coach is believed to be Paterno, but Sandusky was also still a coach at the time and it could be argued that he was referring to Sandusky and not Paterno.
Lastly, the report mentions that there was no evidence found to indicate that the results of the conclusion of the 1998 investigation were reported to Paterno. The opinion of the report is that Paterno would have known about the investigation because he was in control of the football facilities and knew "everything that was going on".
Although there is some indication that Paterno was aware of the 1998 incident, there is no concrete evidence that Paterno knew of what Sandusky did or that he was being investigated.
Based on the conclusions of the investigation by the UP Police, DPW, DA, and SC Police, I don't see that Penn State did anything criminal prior to 2001. In my view Penn State should have monitored Sandusky more closely after 1998 and the school did not do enough to review Sandusky's actions and involvement with children on Penn State Campus.
I'll give my opinions of the 2001 incident later.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
I have a hard time believing Spanier, Curley, Shultz could keep Joe Paterno in the dark about everything Sandusky.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Sam's Drunk Dog wrote: I except them to setup a fund to pay for those that were abused by Sandusky. I believe I've heard that the money used to pay Sandusky's victims will not come from tution, grants, or donations, so that pretty much means that proceeds from the football program and other sports programs will be funding Sandusky's victims.
I don't think you quite understand how this works. The money will absolutely come in part from state and student payments, without a doubt, since significant amounts of PSU's budget is comprised of these funds and are used across departments without discrimiation. No one department would be responsible for paying from their funds as they do not have the authority to pay this type of expense out of their own budget; Its likely that the University has an indemnity policy that may cover some of the expenses, but any other monies paid comes from capital accounts, both of which are funded by multiple sources, including tuition and state funds.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
You are probably right. This was just something that I read or overheard.Pitt87 wrote:Sam's Drunk Dog wrote: I except them to setup a fund to pay for those that were abused by Sandusky. I believe I've heard that the money used to pay Sandusky's victims will not come from tution, grants, or donations, so that pretty much means that proceeds from the football program and other sports programs will be funding Sandusky's victims.
I don't think you quite understand how this works. The money will absolutely come in part from state and student payments, without a doubt, since significant amounts of PSU's budget is comprised of these funds and are used across departments without discrimiation. No one department would be responsible for paying from their funds as they do not have the authority to pay this type of expense out of their own budget; Its likely that the University has an indemnity policy that may cover some of the expenses, but any other monies paid comes from capital accounts, both of which are funded by multiple sources, including tuition and state funds.
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Erickson: Penn State has formed a partnership with the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape and the National Sexual Violence Resource Center. -- Onward State (@OnwardState)
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Re: Jerry Sandusky Trial
Of course!!Troy Loney wrote:Question to PSU'ers.
Are you guys still going to wake up saturday mornings this fall, start blasting the PSU Fight song and get waisted watching college football all day?
Cheering for the football team is not equal to cheering for Sandusky or those who knowingly helped sheild his deeds from the public eye.
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