Sheriff Shanny

[Mr. Colby]

so.... fair to say the NHL is back to the "Wild West" it was under Campbell? its not stopping or maybe is even worse?

I would probably say it's worse. Or at least less consistent. Campbell just suspended everyone for 2 games. Shanahan has to be using a dart board. Not to mention its a crapshoot for what hits are and are not suspendable.

[Sarcastic]

2 minute penalty. 2 games suspension.
[youtube][/youtube]


5 minute penalty. no suspension.
[youtube][/youtube]

[Pitt87]

so.... fair to say the NHL is back to the "Wild West" it was under Campbell? its not stopping or maybe is even worse?

I would probably say it's worse. Or at least less consistent. Campbell just suspended everyone for 2 games. Shanahan has to be using a dart board. Not to mention its a crapshoot for what hits are and are not suspendable.

Its almost like he likes certain types of hits (elbows, boarding) and players (talented defenders, guys who fight) and areas of the ice (blue to blue, in the slot) where he brings the hammer, and others - specifically shoulders to the head, the leagues worst goons, around the net - where he barely does anything. That Pacioretty hit on Letang was EXACTLY what needs to be taken out of the game. He had every opportunity to take the body but instead decided to save himself and deliver a glancing blow. Same with the Carcillo hit; that was plain cowardly, and to writhe in pain to boot proves it.

At least Scott Stevens would stand behind his hits and follow through. I'm starting to not like this NHL Shanny has produced.

[penmyst]

I'm starting to not like this NHL Shanny has produced.

Let's be fair to Shanahan. He hasn't created this.

As for being the guy in charge of cleaning it up; there, he is failing miserably.

[Physical_Graffiti]

How does everyone feel about the hit on Sami Salo?

[cma3585]

2 minute penalty. 2 games suspension.
[youtube][/youtube]


5 minute penalty. no suspension.
[youtube][/youtube]

That's some brilliant work by Shanny on that one.

[Staggy]

How does everyone feel about the hit on Sami Salo?

I don't know if it's suspendable, but I think it's a really cheap, cowardly way to hit someone. Salo didn't have the puck and Marchand just bends over and shoulders him right above the knee? Pretty gutless. If someone hit me like that, I'd fight them.

Here's the hit for those who haven't seen it:

[youtube][/youtube]

[ExPatriatePen]

Absolutely he didn't have the puck, so it's a penalty. But cheap? Not IMHO.

He didn't go for the knees, he got him right in the backside. Was actually a nice clean takeout. If he'd have had the puck.

[bhaw]

I think the call was right on the ice. Supplemental? I don't know. I don't think Marchand is a repeat offender, so I would like to see him get the obligatory $2500 fine to get him there in case he does this again.

Yes it was a cheap hit, and the clipping call was dead on. Text book, actually. So I commend the refs for making the correct call on the ice. As far as going any further with supplemental discipline, I'd like to see him fined so that if Marchand makes another dangerous hit, he CAN be suspended.

[Staggy]

Didn't Marchand get fined $2500 for slew footing Niskanen? I think he did.

[bhaw]

Here is why Shanny and the NHL have disappointed me. And ultimately, this is why they have turned me from hard-core fan to casual fan. This is more of a string of thoughts than a coherent logical explanation. So if it doesn't follow from paragraph to paragraph, I apologize. Also, sorry for the length, but I'm tired of breaking up the incompetence. Don't read if you don't want

First, let's look at the success stories so we can frame this. The two biggest are Cooke and Bertuzzi. We all know Cooke's story at this point, so I won't rehash it. Bertuzzi, we know as well. But very few have gone on to point out that since the Moore incident, where Bertuzzi was punished heavily, he has been a reformed player. He has been questioned on 1 hit since that incident, which was an elbow (IIRC). The part I think the league failed in for the Moore incident was punishing the Canucks as a club. The punishment for Bertuzzi himself is debatable. Should he have been suspended longer since he ruined a guy's career? Maybe. But the end result is that Bertuzzi has reformed his play. Cooke has done the same since his series of suspensions from the league.

Now, we look just at Shanny's work this year. This season started so promising. I had a lot of hope for Shannahan when he was punishing guys in pre-season. Players were getting harsh punishments for dangerous hits, and it was consistent. The season started and he's just totally fallen apart. There are 2 likely explanations: either he caved to the NHLPA or he is handling things on a PR basis. Both have plenty of relevant evidence, but regardless, he has totally relaxed on his punishment and become wildly inconsistent. You really have no idea what is punishable and what is not. It's hard to argue, but needless to say, I am beyond disappointed with Shanny at this point. The harshest punishment he handed out was to Wisniewski in the pre-season. Wisniewski even publicly said that the financial burden of being suspended for 8 games was financially ridiculous for him. He felt it. Yet we have a guy like Bourque who is punished multiple times in a very short time span and doesn't reach Wisniewski levels for punishment (8 games vs 5).

Finally, I come to the perception of dirty vs not dirty hits over the past 4-5 years. I will use a few specific examples, but if you go beyond those, the concepts hold true. Earlier in this thread, I posted a past video of Chris Neil hitting Sean Avery. 4 years ago, that hit by Neil was debated all around the league on the legality of the hit. Neil slightly left his feet and literally just drilled Avery. No elbows, no shot to the head. But it was a debated shot because a) Avery was injured and b) Neil did barely leave his feet during the hit. And people had this uproar over a hit TO Sean Avery. Fast forward 4 years later, and hits like the ones regularly delivered by Kronwall or the hit delivered by Fristric to Weber are considered legal with no merit for discussion on dirtiness. In 4 years the NHL has convince the fans, players, refs and themselves that plays multiple times worse, where players are literally exploding up into their victim's head, than that hit by Neil on Avery are just a part of the game. 4 years ago, the refs called Neil for a penalty because they felt they had to. Now, refs barely flinch at hits like Fristric on Weber. In 4 short years, the NHL has tricked us all into thinking that these hits were always part of the norm. The claim now is that these were always legal hits and guys in the 50s and 60s were delivering blows 10x worse. But the proof is in the video. 4 years ago, barely leaving your feet after a hit where there was NO elbow and NO shot to the head was debated for not whether or not it WAS dirty, it was debated for how dirty it was.

Same scenario for the knee of Rupp on Staal this week. Rewind 4-5 years ago. A knee was considered one of the dirtiest plays you could possibly do. Regardless of your character or your intention, a knee was a knee. If you kneed someone, it was dirty and fans from all over the NHL would be knocking on your door with torches and a pitch fork for taking such a cowardly hit. That was then. Thanks to Campbell, we all went through what I wll call the "AO effect." It wasn't just Ovechkin, but suddenly not all knees were really knees. Some where accidental. Some were not actually knees. They were attempted shoulder checks gone wrong. So what happens when Rupp knees Staal? We are evaluating what kind of player Rupp is and whether he meant to do it or not. Does the league even take a 2nd look at it? Of course not. In 4 short years, we have gone from knee on knee hits being viewed as cowardly hits deserving of players to be stripped of their contracts or worse to "hey hey... he didn't mean to do it." Fans, players, and the league have all bought into that.

The violence in the league is growing, and we are allowing it to happen. We have allowed the NHL to trick us into thinking that this stuff has always happened. But don't just buy into that. Look at video. As little as 4 years ago, there is significant evidence that we, as fans, as a league, tolerated significantly less. The shoddy work by referees, Colin Campbell, Shannahan, and the league as a whole have allowed things to escalate. And because of that, we are diluting the talent that IS in the NHL. Shannahan didn't create the mess, but he is charged with cleaning it up. But really, he needs to clean it up, the refs need to call penalties, and the fans need to stop buying into the propaganda that this is all normal. Losing a star player for over a year isn't normal. Losing over a dozen All Stars in one year isn't normal. Stop buying the message that it is.

Question for discussion: If Bertuzzi did what he did to Moore TODAY, what would the punishment be?

[bhaw]

Didn't Marchand get fined $2500 for slew footing Niskanen? I think he did.

March 17, 2011 - Marchand was suspended 2 games for Elbowing Umberger in the head (I was wrong). There is no fine listed for slew footing Niskanen though. This is the only supplemental punishment listed for Marchand in the last year.

[PaLionking]

Yes Marchand did get fined for the slewfoot earlier this year. It took them a couple days to fine him but was fined

[Froggy]

Good post, bhaw.

[shmenguin]

shanahan's either corrupt or a total idiot.

i'm not thrilled with either

[bhaw]

agreed.

Time for the NHL to create a committee for this stuff that is headed by someone NOT from hockey. A lawyer who has no ties to the game. The committee can be former players/coaches/GMs/league officials.

[Staggy]

Hearing for Marchand tomorrow. And he did get fined for the slew foot:

http://www.nesn.com/2011/12/nhl-fines-b ... kanen.html

[bhaw]

my bad... it wasn't listed in the source I was using. Apparently not a good source

[llipgh2]

Canucks reporting Salo was concussed on the hit.

[Staggy]

my bad... it wasn't listed in the source I was using. Apparently not a good source

It's all good. What I want to know is how he went from getting a 2 game suspension last season and then this season, even though he is a repeat offender, he only gets a fine. I'm done trying to figure out anything Shanahan does.

[bhaw]

my bad... it wasn't listed in the source I was using. Apparently not a good source

It's all good. What I want to know is how he went from getting a 2 game suspension last season and then this season, even though he is a repeat offender, he only gets a fine. I'm done trying to figure out anything Shanahan does.

Wait, so you can't tell from the videos what his logic is?

[relantel]

my bad... it wasn't listed in the source I was using. Apparently not a good source

It's all good. What I want to know is how he went from getting a 2 game suspension last season and then this season, even though he is a repeat offender, he only gets a fine. I'm done trying to figure out anything Shanahan does.

Different class of offense? (i.e. different section of the rulebook, i.e. stick fouls versus boarding etc.)

[Staggy]

Yeah, I guess. One was a headshot and the other was a slew foot. Since his hit the other day was neither, does that mean he only gets a fine once again? Not asking you, just pointing out the general stupidity and inconsistency of their punishments. Cooke was suspended 4 games last year for a hit from behind then got 17 games for a headshot so I guess the different type of infraction didn't apply to him.

[Penspal]

Same scenario for the knee of Rupp on Staal this week. Rewind 4-5 years ago. A knee was considered one of the dirtiest plays you could possibly do. Regardless of your character or your intention, a knee was a knee. If you kneed someone, it was dirty and fans from all over the NHL would be knocking on your door with torches and a pitch fork for taking such a cowardly hit. That was then. Thanks to Campbell, we all went through what I wll call the "AO effect." It wasn't just Ovechkin, but suddenly not all knees were really knees. Some where accidental. Some were not actually knees. They were attempted shoulder checks gone wrong. So what happens when Rupp knees Staal? We are evaluating what kind of player Rupp is and whether he meant to do it or not. Does the league even take a 2nd look at it? Of course not. In 4 short years, we have gone from knee on knee hits being viewed as cowardly hits deserving of players to be stripped of their contracts or worse to "hey hey... he didn't mean to do it." Fans, players, and the league have all bought into that.

Great post bhaw. I know walls of text scare off a lot of people, but to get a point across, sometimes you need the synergy that multiple sentences can give you.

I ripped out a lot to highlight my next point. I want to thank you for being the ONLY OTHER post/article/mention ANYWHERE that I can find that thinks the Rupp knee on Staal was, at the very least, questionable. In my thread "Game 39 vs. NY - Thoughts from the morning after", only one person even commented on it, and more or less to say I was wrong.

I've been a die hard fan for soooo long I'm not sure I can tone it down to casual, but the thought has crossed my mind. I think the NHL is like most everything else in the world right now, FUBAR'ed. Let's hope it does not become SNAFUBAR'ed. It is not to late for Shanny (and COMMITTEE, its not just him) to get back to stiffer sentences.

I didn't like the Marchand hit, because it was Marchand "the rat", and the context of the game was nasty. There was already another dirty Boston hit, and against a team that they defeated in the cup by playing questionably dirty playoff hockey.

Victories cannot come at the expense of players health. It is a game, a form of entertainment, it is not a war. There is a trophy given every year for sportsmanship - The Lady Byng. I think that everyone who has won that the last 10 years should form a committee and submit ideas for how to clean up the attitude, which is the cause, the injuries and suspensions are just the effect.

[MRandall25]

Cooke was suspended 4 games last year for a hit from behind then got 17 games for a headshot so I guess the different type of infraction didn't apply to him.

Re-read the first word you typed.

There's your answer