What happened to Ovechkin?

[Malkamaniac]

I don't disagree or dismiss the steroid culture. I just think it's incredibly poor judgement to produce a story like that with no details/evidence to provide an educated thought or sound theory. What John did on the radio today furthered the thought that he's a do nothing hack job, and the fact that someone hires him is for the hits, not the good reporting/quality of the article.

Twice now he's made national news in unfriendly terms.

It's reckless and irresponsible journalism.

[doublem]

He comes from Russia, a steroid culture.

What does this mean? Is America a steroid culture?

[doublem]

Serious question.... John being John aside... what's wrong with the substance of the question? He is only stating what many of around the league have speculated over.... I say bring it to front and center stage.

Ovie was subject to WADA testing from 10/05 to 02/06 and 10/09 to 02/10 leading up to the 06 & 10 Olympics. Those are real drug tests, not easy to beat tests administered by North American professional leagues. Ovie didn't show any Olympic year regressions (05/06 was his rookie year so no baseline data). He didn't fail any drug tests. He and the NHL's other Olympians are the cleanest guys in the league. Maybe he could be taking BALCO type stuff that is undetectable. Maybe he juiced in non-Olympic years. Calling him out for being a doper is disingenuous in light of the lack of evidence and the rigorous tests he has passed.

He doesn't train hard. He parties hard. He isn't taking care of his body and training to be at maximum potential like Sid. Its a much more plausible explanation substantiated by evidence for his decline than juice. It was very predicable to see his happening a few years ago.

Ovie's excellence was fueled by physical talent and emotion, 2 things that can and will wane. A guy like Sid is fueled by ambition, desire, mental toughness (to keep ambition & desire from waning) dedication, intelligence, and other repeatable process oriented attributes that forecast a high probability of success longevity.

This was easy to call a few years ago when everybody thought Ovie and Malkin were better than Sid. Sid (concussion issues aside) is built for the long haul. He is mature and has been focused on an NHL legacy of Cups and individual records since he was 13 years old. The others aren't built that way.

exactly.

[DocEmrick]

60+ goals in an impossible-to-score-60 NHL, to next to nothing is still the most epic drop off of all time. ALL TIME

[Physical_Graffiti]

Serious question.... John being John aside... what's wrong with the substance of the question? He is only stating what many of around the league have speculated over.... I say bring it to front and center stage.

Ovie was subject to WADA testing from 10/05 to 02/06 and 10/09 to 02/10 leading up to the 06 & 10 Olympics. Those are real drug tests, not easy to beat tests administered by North American professional leagues. Ovie didn't show any Olympic year regressions (05/06 was his rookie year so no baseline data). He didn't fail any drug tests. He and the NHL's other Olympians are the cleanest guys in the league. Maybe he could be taking BALCO type stuff that is undetectable. Maybe he juiced in non-Olympic years. Calling him out for being a doper is disingenuous in light of the lack of evidence and the rigorous tests he has passed.

He doesn't train hard. He parties hard. He isn't taking care of his body and training to be at maximum potential like Sid. Its a much more plausible explanation substantiated by evidence for his decline than juice. It was very predicable to see his happening a few years ago.

Ovie's excellence was fueled by physical talent and emotion, 2 things that can and will wane. A guy like Sid is fueled by ambition, desire, mental toughness (to keep ambition & desire from waning) dedication, intelligence, and other repeatable process oriented attributes that forecast a high probability of success longevity.

This was easy to call a few years ago when everybody thought Ovie and Malkin were better than Sid. Sid (concussion issues aside) is built for the long haul. He is mature and has been focused on an NHL legacy of Cups and individual records since he was 13 years old. The others aren't built that way.

exactly.

QFT.

I believe there are NHL players who are doping, but I dislike that on this website I get the feeling that Ovie (and the Caps, but mostly Ovie) gets thrown under the bus as though he's the only player (potentially) doping.

[JS©]

John may have been reckless, but anyone who cavalierly dismisses Ovie having used PEDs is being naive.
He comes from Russia, a steroid culture.
His burst is gone. His speed has diminished at an age when it should be increasing.
I worked in wrestling for 7 years. I know the before & after. I know what it looks like.
John's hypothesis is sound. His "evidence" is flawed.

Serious question: Are you the one that John referenced when he said he knows "somebody" who could see the "before" and "after" when walking into a locker room?

John's a nutcase, but this Lambert guy is a joke. If you're going to accept an invitation for this interview knowing full well what you'll be talking about, at least do some preparation. He couldn't even think of a single example for how Paul is a homer? Holy crap, I could fill the 28 minutes with that alone.

He sounded and acted like he was 28. He got called out for writing an article that attacked two people personally, and reacted like a defensive baby. Hopefully he learns from this and Puck Daddy starts publishing actual content instead of angsty garbage with nothing to back it up.

Lambert didn't come on the show to discuss accusations of his brother being a homer. I know he wrote about it and even gave one answer that should have been ample evidence. I'm sure if that's what the interview was about, he could have came in with youtube clips, quotes, etc. It was kind of a blindsiding (in my opinion.)

If it were me and I specifically named his brother in a column, I would have had a few things at the ready position beside from a casual mention of Matt Cooke.

[MarkMaddenX]

Nobody declines to the degree Ovie has based on emotion & ambition waning. If that IS the sole reason behind his downward spiral, it's a first.

[comatose]

Lambert didn't come on the show to discuss accusations of his brother being a homer. I know he wrote about it and even gave one answer that should have been ample evidence. I'm sure if that's what the interview was about, he could have came in with youtube clips, quotes, etc. It was kind of a blindsiding (in my opinion.)

If you make a personal attack on someone's brother in an article, you should expect that you will talk about it during an interview with that person. The "homer" part isn't a personal attack, but calling him "loathsome" is.

I'm not defending John in any way. But I'm tired of bloggers thinking they can just say anything and get away with it. He sounded like a fool in the interview, just as John did.

[Draftnik]

I believe there are NHL players who are doping, but I dislike that on this website I get the feeling that Ovie (and the Caps, but mostly Ovie) get thrown under the bus as though he's the only player (potentially) doping.

Agree. NHL drug testing is a joke. The Boogard article in the NYT (per his father) talked about him getting a 4 day advance notice of a test.

WADA testing is the best standard in the world. Ovie's regression started in a non-olympic season (10/11). Juice would be much more plausible if he regressed in an Olympic year.

I think the NHL only caught 1 Dman (Sean Hill?) for juice in the entire existence of their program. Theodore was caught for propecia, a testosterone masking agent. The notion that Ovie would be afraid to juice last season or this season is absurd. He should be doing better in non-olympic seasons, not worse if he is on the juice.

[doublem]

In 2001, Jagr had 121 points, the next year he had 79. It happens. And Jagr works harder than AO ever did.

[Draftnik]

Nobody declines to the degree Ovie has based on emotion & ambition waning. If that IS the sole reason behind his downward spiral, it's a first.

The 05/06 and 09/10 seasons are the most conclusive in terms of Ovie not juicing. He was subject to WADA testing in both seasons. He had 56g 54a 110p +45 in 79 games in 08/09. During 09/10 (Olympic year, subject to testing from Oct 09 through Feb 10) he had 50g 59a 109p +43 in 72 games. The 2 seasons are virtually identical despite the WADA testing in 09/10. That totally dismisses the notion that he was juicing.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... hal01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

His decline started in 10/11 when there was no WADA testing. He has no reason to fear NHL drug tests so he should be doing better in non-olympic seasons, not regressing.

[Physical_Graffiti]

I believe there are NHL players who are doping, but I dislike that on this website I get the feeling that Ovie (and the Caps, but mostly Ovie) get thrown under the bus as though he's the only player (potentially) doping.

Agree. NHL drug testing is a joke. The Boogard article in the NYT (per his father) talked about him getting a 4 day advance notice of a test.

WADA testing is the best standard in the world. Ovie's regression started in a non-olympic season (10/11). Juice would be much more plausible if he regressed in an Olympic year.

I think the NHL only caught 1 Dman (Sean Hill?) for juice in the entire existence of their program. Theodore was caught for propecia, a testosterone masking agent. The notion that Ovie would be afraid to juice last season or this season is absurd. He should be doing better in non-olympic seasons, not worse if he is on the juice.

[Draftnik]

60+ goals in an impossible-to-score-60 NHL, to next to nothing is still the most epic drop off of all time. ALL TIME

Ovie scored 65 goals in 82 games in 07/08, a goals per game rate of .59:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... hal01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sid scored 32 goals in 41 games in 10/11, a goals per game rate of .64:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... bsi01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you think Sid juiced last season? I don't. If Ovie were juicing, non-olympic years (last season & this season) would be the least likely seasons of regression since he doesn't have to face any WADA testing.

[doublem]

AO's numbers in 2010.

42 goals and 47 assists in 58 games. A crazy amount. In fact, it's an amount one would almost have to consider unsustainable. One also has to wonder at what point Ovechkin had to quit these steroids of his to pass Olympic testing.

And what of Ovechkin's 2-2-4 in four games at the Olympics and 8-12-20 in the 18 NHL games following them and 5-5-10 in the seven postseason games the Capitals played that year.

[MarkMaddenX]

The Ovie decline isn't just statistical. it's visual. That burst is gone.

[Draftnik]

AO's numbers in 2010.

42 goals and 47 assists in 58 games. A crazy amount. In fact, it's an amount one would almost have to consider unsustainable. One also has to wonder at what point Ovechkin had to quit these steroids of his to pass Olympic testing.

And what of Ovechkin's 2-2-4 in four games at the Olympics and 8-12-20 in the 18 NHL games following them and 5-5-10 in the seven postseason games the Capitals played that year.

The post-olympic period wouldn't have any WADA testing. He could juice to his heart's content once the Olympics ended in late February. He was subject to WADA testing from October 2009 to February 2010. If he were juicing and stopped to evade detection, the regression would have shown up before the Olympics.

His splits were great leading up to the 2010 games:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... lits/2010/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

8g 12a in 11 December games
9g 17a in 15 January games
7g, 6a in 7 February games

[comatose]

Pierre says Richards has the most leadership in the NHL, but gets traded by the team for which he is the captain.

Pierre says Ovechkin is the most passionate player in the NHL, but he seems to have lost his passion.

Could the Pierre McGuire curse be real?

[Draftnik]

The Ovie decline isn't just statistical. it's visual. That burst is gone.

If Usain Bolt didn't train like a fiend and partied like a rock star, do you think he would lose his burst?

The game is totally different today than it was even 10 years ago. There is constant back-pressure and defensive systems with teams collapsing around their goal to block shots and protect their goalie. Its not like the old days where Mike Bossy could leisurely skate up and down the wing and blast slappers from the circles against goalies that didn't have the equipment or technique to cut down the angles on shots.

Guys have to be in top shape and play at a very high tempo to create space for themselves to get shots off from good scoring areas. If a guy is out of shape like Ovie, the other players, goalies, and defensive systems are too good to allow him to get by doing things half-a##ed.

[doublem]

Of course, he has slowed but that's because he is fat and doesn't work 100% at hockey. He cares about sports cars, women and gold chains. If ovie grew up in the supposed steroid fulled 1970s Russia he wouldn't be doing such things. Just look at the difference between someone like igor larionov and AO. Big difference.

[Guinness]

So I guess that moron Steigerwald (John) accused AO of doing steroids and Greg Wyshynski Dmitry Chesnokov just destroyed him on the air. good. also.

wyshynski Greg Wyshynski
Lambert and I both did a search for Ovechkin's links to that steroid doctor. We found none outside of Pens messages boards.

Wow! A search? Case closed, eh!?

[MarkMaddenX]

To assume Ovie stinks because he's fat & doesn't care is just as presumptuous as saying he stinks because he's off the juice. Fact is, we don't know. But I know which way I'd bet based on logic, what Ovie is failing at in particular, and probabilities.

[Draftnik]

It appears the annual IIHF mens hockey championships that coincide with the NHL playoffs also use WADA testing:

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/05/10/wada- ... f-testing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That means Ovie would have been subject to the most rigorous drug testing (urine & blood) in the world in 03/04, 04/05, 05/06, 06/07, 07/08, 09/10, & 10/11:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... hal01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How did he pass the best drug tests in the world?

BALCO (undetectable) type drugs would be the only explanation if he were jucing. There has been no discovery of new BALCO type substances so if Ovie were taking them why would he stop the past few seasons? It doesn't make sense.

[littlemoonboot]

He comes from Russia, a steroid culture.

What does this mean? Is America a steroid culture?

We're a fat culture. I suspect that the vast majority of the American players in the NHL are secretly fat.

[Desiato]

To assume Ovie stinks because he's fat & doesn't care is just as presumptuous as saying he stinks because he's off the juice. Fact is, we don't know. But I know which way I'd bet based on logic, what Ovie is failing at in particular, and probabilities.

You can lightly claim a player is fat/lazy/unmotivated/injured/post-peak. That's all fair game for speculation. Performance enhancing drug accusations are very serious with strong consequences that should not be made without solid evidence in my opinion.

[doublem]

Do we think Sid is on them? Look at his goal numbers from 09 to 10 to 11? and did he go off them after he was hurt. 2/8. think about it.