Jagr Watch 2017

Idoit40fans · Post by **Idoit40fans** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:22 am

Word is Jagr is still the second greatest Penguin of all time and a top 15 player of all time. It will be embarrassing if his number isn't retired shortly after he retires.

jaysmiter · Post by **jaysmiter** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:26 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Word is Jagr is still the second greatest Penguin of all time and a top 15 player of all time. It will be embarrassing if his number isn't retired shortly after he retires.

Disagree. He has embarrassed the organization not once, but twice now. His jersey doesn't belong in the rafters.

Tico Rick · Post by **Tico Rick** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:28 am

Thanks for your post, Tomas. You have a unique perspective, and you provide valuable insight into Jagr. I tend to agree with you about the media and fan's treatment of Jagr. I was never one of those fans who thought he should be booed at the Arena, and I don't begrudge him signing with Philly any more than I begrudge Malone signing with Tampa Bay, Talbot signing with the Flyers, or Rupp signing with the Rangers. I don't know too many people who can truthfully say they would accept a job offer that was $1 million less than another job offer they had. Jagr owes Mario and the fans nothing, Dejan's self-righteous "Mario Letter" of yesterday notwithstanding.

But, like littlemoonboot, I don't understand why Svoboda was talking this "his heart is in Pittsburgh" crap - this is just the reverse side of the "he needs to make things right" coin. It's all just a business, and Svoboda should have kept it that way.

As for signing with Philly, I just don't understand what he was thinking. Although signing with the Pens would have been a fairy tale ending to his career, I felt his best fit would have been with Detroit. Either team, however, would have given him a legitimate shot at winning the Cup one last time. But why sign a one-year contract with a team that has just imploded, and which could have serious chemistry problems next year? Frankly, I feel a little bit sorry for him, and I think he would have been better off making more money in the KHL.

ExPatriatePen · Post by **ExPatriatePen** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:30 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Word is Jagr is still the second greatest Penguin of all time and a top 15 player of all time. It will be embarrassing if his number isn't retired shortly after he retires.

I guess it depends on how you're measuring that... As for "embarrassing", pens fans will have NOTHING to be embarrassed about.

On the other hand Jaromirs behavior / actions after some very public high profile quotes to the contrary, well, I'd say Jaromir has quite enough to be embarrassed about.

I was a season ticket holder from long before Jagr was a Pen through almost his entire career in Pittsburgh, and then watch him from up here in NY during his time with the Rags. I don't think he's Top 15, but I respect your right to think he is.

littlemoonboot · Post by **littlemoonboot** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:32 am

jaysmiter wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Word is Jagr is still the second greatest Penguin of all time and a top 15 player of all time. It will be embarrassing if his number isn't retired shortly after he retires.
Disagree. He has embarrassed the organization not once, but twice now. His jersey doesn't belong in the rafters.

They could always tell Jagr what a great player he's been and how much they'd really like to retire his number.... and then just give the #68 to someone else, since saying one thing and doing another seems to be par for the course.

ExPatriatePen · Post by **ExPatriatePen** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:33 am

littlemoonboot wrote:
jaysmiter wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Word is Jagr is still the second greatest Penguin of all time and a top 15 player of all time. It will be embarrassing if his number isn't retired shortly after he retires.
Disagree. He has embarrassed the organization not once, but twice now. His jersey doesn't belong in the rafters.
They could always tell Jagr what a great player he's been and how much they'd really like to retire his number.... and then just give the #68 to someone else, since saying one thing and doing another seems to be par for the course.

Wouldn't that be hilarious?

jaysmiter · Post by **jaysmiter** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:34 am

littlemoonboot wrote:
jaysmiter wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Word is Jagr is still the second greatest Penguin of all time and a top 15 player of all time. It will be embarrassing if his number isn't retired shortly after he retires.
Disagree. He has embarrassed the organization not once, but twice now. His jersey doesn't belong in the rafters.
They could always tell Jagr what a great player he's been and how much they'd really like to retire his number.... and then just give the #68 to someone else, since saying one thing and doing another seems to be par for the course.

He probably wouldn't even show up for a jersey retiring ceremony, anyway.

I was always, ALWAYS, a Jagr fan. I defended his "dying alive" BS, I never booed him at the arena...

But, this...this is too much. Learn to keep your mouth shut, Jaromir Jagr, because it's writing checks it can't cash.

Factorial · Post by **Factorial** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:50 am

newarenanow wrote:
Finally, and this is what struck me, Slovboda kept trying to point out that Jagr "has done many great things for the Penguins and the city and he would like to come back and celebrate with the fans one day". He was also saying there should be no burned bridges or anything and no intent to do so was made. Starkey chimed in and pretty much said Jagr as burned bridges, not only with the fan base, but with the organization and there is a ton of backlash in the city. Pretty much Slovboda said exactly what I was thinking "what is done is done. People will forgive and forget over time and in time we can all celebrate".

I stated this earlier, but I think Jagr wants the Pens to be his "home" after he retires and where he is honored. He knows everyone is mad right now, but I think he thinks over time, over like the next decade or so, people will forgive and forget like they did when he left the first time. I know I did. And when that time comes, he will get his number in the rafters and the fans will celebrate what he did as a player here.

That is clearly what his agent was trying to say.
.

Neither his agent or Jagr seem to realize the fever pitch the fans were in for his return HOME and the disappointment and anger that exists now. He could have joined one of best teams and been a complementary piece and if he scored over, say, 20 goals it would be regarded as a success. Endorsements, especially in the long run, would have added to his salary and far surpassed the extra million he will make with the Flyers. He must be cash strapped is all I can think. He may get his number retired but it will be a long time before that happens.

ExPatriatePen · Post by **ExPatriatePen** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:52 am

I was never one much for booing hockey players (heckling, sure, but not booing)

I certainly won't ever cheer for Jaromir and I'd support anyone who sports a banner or t-shirt with anything even the least bit witty.

Maybe a black and gold t-shirt with a picture of a Flyers 68 Sweater with a circle and a line drawn through it that says "his hearts in Pittsburgh but his bank is in Philly"

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:57 am

I agree with those who've said that what makes this situation bad is that he apparently strung the organization - and Lemieux - along.

Annouce that you're coming back and you intend to sign with the team that seems to be a good fit and makes an offer commensurate with your expectations. How freaking hard is that? If I'm Lemieux, I take this personally. I'd feel as though I was used to bargain up the offers from other teams.

the riddler · Post by **the riddler** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:03 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Word is Jagr is still the second greatest Penguin of all time and a top 15 player of all time. It will be embarrassing if his number isn't retired shortly after he retires.

His number needs to be retired, but it will take some time for everyone to cool down. I wish this never would've happened, I think he understandably rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, including the Penguins front office.

Post by **PghSkins** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:04 am

Factorial wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Finally, and this is what struck me, Slovboda kept trying to point out that Jagr "has done many great things for the Penguins and the city and he would like to come back and celebrate with the fans one day". He was also saying there should be no burned bridges or anything and no intent to do so was made. Starkey chimed in and pretty much said Jagr as burned bridges, not only with the fan base, but with the organization and there is a ton of backlash in the city. Pretty much Slovboda said exactly what I was thinking "what is done is done. People will forgive and forget over time and in time we can all celebrate".

I stated this earlier, but I think Jagr wants the Pens to be his "home" after he retires and where he is honored. He knows everyone is mad right now, but I think he thinks over time, over like the next decade or so, people will forgive and forget like they did when he left the first time. I know I did. And when that time comes, he will get his number in the rafters and the fans will celebrate what he did as a player here.

That is clearly what his agent was trying to say.
.
Neither his agent or Jagr seem to realize the fever pitch the fans were in for his return HOME and the disappointment and anger that exists now. He could have joined one of best teams and been a complementary piece and if he scored over, say, 20 goals it would be regarded as a success. Endorsements, especially in the long run, would have added to his salary and far surpassed the extra million he will make with the Flyers. He must be cash strapped is all I can think. He may get his number retired but it will be a long time before that happens.

If he was so cash strapped wouldn't he have gone back to the KHL, tax free?

sluggermatt15 · Post by **sluggermatt15** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:04 am

jaysmiter wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Word is Jagr is still the second greatest Penguin of all time and a top 15 player of all time. It will be embarrassing if his number isn't retired shortly after he retires.
Disagree. He has embarrassed the organization not once, but twice now. His jersey doesn't belong in the rafters.

Yep, I agree. The fact he snubbed the Penguins for a second time REALLY hurts. Obviously imagine how Lemieux and Burkle feel right now. Maybe one of the reasons why Lemieux did not comment on Jagr signing with the Flyers.

I don't think it really matters that Jagr is the second all-time scorer for the Penguins, the fact he'll be in the HOF one day. To me I don't think Lemieux will let #68 be retired at the end of the day.

bhaw · Post by **bhaw** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:09 am

Guinness wrote:I agree with those who've said that what makes this situation bad is that he apparently strung the organization - and Lemieux - along.

Annouce that you're coming back and you intend to sign with the team that seems to be a good fit and makes an offer commensurate with your expectations. How freaking hard is that? If I'm Lemieux, I take this personally. I'd feel as though I was used to bargain up the offers from other teams.

By many accounts, this is exactly how Holland and Shero felt (as well as Montreal).

For Jagr, it's not a huge deal because he's done after this year and doesn't have to negotiate again (unless he plays, but my guess is if he does he goes back to the KHL). No GM is going to trust Svboda ever again, and I'm sure the list of GMs willing to work with him beyond "here's an offer, you have an hour to let us know" is shrinking.

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:17 am

The Steelers don't retire numbers, do they? Maybe this is the route the organization takes... just don't issue the number, but also don't send it to the rafters.

Maybe someday they do, but again I'm guessing that for Lemieux, this whole deal stings. LOTS of water is going to have to go over the dam...

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:17 am

bhaw wrote: For Jagr, it's not a huge deal because he's done after this year and doesn't have to negotiate again (unless he plays, but my guess is if he does he goes back to the KHL). No GM is going to trust Svboda ever again, and I'm sure the list of GMs willing to work with him beyond "here's an offer, you have an hour to let us know" is shrinking.

Yeah I would think it'll be difficult for him to deal with GM's going forward.

jprolley · Post by **jprolley** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:24 am

Guinness wrote:The Steelers don't retire numbers, do they? Maybe this is the route the organization takes... just don't issue the number, but also don't send it to the rafters.

Maybe someday they do, but again I'm guessing that for Lemieux, this whole deal stings. LOTS of water is going to have to go over the dam...

i don't think any NFL teams retire numbers unless they are an absolute legend. it's kind of hard to say certain numbers are off limits when there's only 99 numbers for teams with 52 players....no to mention certain positions are only allowed to wear certain numbers....for instance a wide receiver can't wear 55

plus it would be kinda embarrassing to be like the montreal canadiens who retire everyone's number and force goalies to wear #60

Lesky · Post by **Lesky** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:30 am

Today when I woke up I felt sick to my stomach. When I walked past my framed and signed Jagr 1992-1993 Home jersey it was an awkward feeling. I had an impulse of throwing it down from the wall... But walked away as I do not want to regret it later.

The more I think about it the more hurt do I feel about it all. Imagining Lemieux having to put up with this crap brings tears to my eyes.

Jaromir just stabbed the organisation I have followed and loved as long as I can remember. What he did not only ruins the great homecoming and an exciting season with the Penguins, it leaves a bitter and sour taste on Jagr as a whole which for me as a huge Jagr fan is hard to swallow.

I have no idea how I should handle this, I despise Jagr for what he did, but I do not want to start to hate one of my childhood idols. I just know that this will come back and hurt me every time I see or hear about Jagr for the rest of my life.

I feel like I do not want to have anything to do with anything that is connected with Jagr, the Penguins, the NHL and Jagr himself. I just want to forget about it.

littlemoonboot · Post by **littlemoonboot** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:32 am

The Pens are extremely discriminating about the numbers they do retire, when one goes up there is no doubt or questioning about it among anyone. There will be doubts and questions about the prospect of retiring #68 for a long, long time.

Desiato · Post by **Desiato** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:33 am

The Flyers probably are the best fit for Jagr from his POV. On that team, he'll be given the chance to be a top offensive contributor instead of playing in the shadow of greater players for a second time in Pittsburgh. While I don't think he'll be successful, I think he wants that opportunity.

I believe Jagr's ego would have had major problems playing in the shadows of Crosby and Malkin. It might have been a nightmare for him.

Again, what I have a problem with is the 5-7 weeks of public drama, misdirection and outright lies from his camp. Do any of you really believe for a second that Svoboda didn't know where Jagr was? That's an excuse from 15 years ago. It was just one of many lame tactics in the circus they created. I do not believe he ever had serious intentions of joining the Pens. However, the Penguins organization and its fans were useful tools. I hate how he used the Pens, not his final decision.

In the end, I am truly grateful that he didn't sign with the Pens. He would have been a major distraction for the entire season. For him to sign with the Pens, he would have needed to be low-key from the very beginning.

As for his legacy in Pittsburgh, it's too early to tell... but I don't think he even cares. That in itself is a slap in the face because I think professional athletes always need to be respectful and appreciative of the crazy fans who made them filthy rich playing a meaningless game.

littlemoonboot · Post by **littlemoonboot** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:34 am

Lesky wrote:Today when I woke up I felt sick to my stomach. When I walked past my framed and signed Jagr 1992-1993 Home jersey it was an awkward feeling. I had an impulse of throwing it down from the wall... But walked away as I do not want to regret it later.

The more I think about it the more hurt do I feel about it all. Imagining Lemieux having to put up with this crap brings tears to my eyes.

Jaromir just stabbed the organisation I have followed and loved as long as I can remember. What he did not only ruins the great homecoming and an exciting season with the Penguins, it leaves a bitter and sour taste on Jagr as a whole which for me as a huge Jagr fan is hard to swallow.

I have no idea how I should handle this, I despise Jagr for what he did, but I do not want to start to hate one of my childhood idols. I just know that this will come back and hurt me every time I see or hear about Jagr for the rest of my life.

You don't have to hate him. I don't. I don't have the same love for him that I did before, but I don't hate him.

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:35 am

The only hockey player I hate is Ovechkin.

Post by **penny lane** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:51 am

jaromir isn't the 1st athlete/person to follow the money, he won't be the last. Other penguins have left for money; the sticking point will be between him and Mario.

Give me flower, gino, sidney and brooks and letang , et al and I put the pens against anyone...still !
I can't forget TK!

littlemoonboot · Post by **littlemoonboot** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:13 pm

penny lane wrote:jaromir isn't the 1st athlete/person to follow the money, he won't be the last. Other penguins have left for money; the sticking point will be between him and Mario.

Exactly. However the Penguins organization regards Jaromir's legacy in the future comes down to Mario. And as far as I'm concerned, Mario can do whatever he wants.

Give me flower, gino, sidney and brooks and letang , et al and I put the pens against anyone...still !
I can't forget TK!

And now Sullivan. And that, I think is what Ray Shero was thinking all along. (that and "most of these free agents I'm looking at.......meh")

Post by **pittsports87** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:14 pm

Jagr said on his conference call that a big plus for Philly was that Girioux and Briere are right handed centers and he wants to play with a right handed center.

I guess he forgot Kip Miller was a lefty.

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