Idoit40fans wrote:
I wanted Jagr, but I don't really care if he signs or not. Its a joke that Shero pulled the offer before an official offer even existed. Shero showed that he had no intention of signing Jagr by handling it this way, he put it on Jagr so the fans wouldn't lynch him.
Shero obviously did not pull the offer without Mario's blessing....and I think its very clear that Mario had every intention of bringing Jagr back.
I also think its assumed that Mario and Jagr had a "handshake" deal in place earlier this week. Lemieux was confident enough to share that with others.
The Pens had every intention of signing Jagr....but only when they felt the feeling was mutual.
Idoit40fans wrote: Its a joke that Shero pulled the offer before an official offer even existed. Shero showed that he had no intention of signing Jagr by handling it this way, he put it on Jagr so the fans wouldn't lynch him.
What are you smoking? No "official offer?" It's been out there for a few days?
Out there and unable to be accepted. Jagr was never able to sign a contract, there was no real offer.
This is completely ignoring Jagr's intentions, which I'm sure were to mercenary himself to the highest bidder, but Shero showed his hand when he pulled the offer before FA started too.
Agreed 100%.
Svoboda is *****bag, Jagr is stupid and greedy and Shero in unclassy
Idoit40fans wrote:I don't care about Jagr or his agent's intentions. What did Shero have to lose by putting on offer out there until 12:00:01 and then pulling it?
Signing him for more than he needed to? Detroit pulling their offer certainly suggests that Jagr and Svoboda overestimated the market for him.
This is all ridiculous. He had 3 days to accept the offer in waiting.
Heard about Pens pulling their offer 20 minutes before Free Agency started, heard that Detroit pulled theirs 10 minutes after.
Lesky wrote:
Jagr would never do that now even if he had planned to sign with the Penguins.
Why? Because what Shero did showed he had no interest in Jagr whatsoever.
Thats what irks me. I wish Jagr at least would have the chance to say yes or no.
How hard can it be to make a phone call?
He neve gave Jagr a chance...waaa waaa waaa. My lord, give it a rest. The guy is a baby. The Pens don't have to do any more than to offer him a contract. Which is what they did.
They showed interest by saying "we'd like to have you, here is our offer." Then all of a sudden Jagr starts to go back and forth like a little baby because now even though he said he wanted to play in pittsburgh suddenly is having second thoughts.
Shero's second thought was, "we don't have time to negotiate with an 8 year old".
Shero did EVERYTHING right here and nothing wrong. He did give a "deadline" and even let Jagr extend it. At some point you have to realize that Jagr is the same clown he always was.
I hope they boo him louder and harder than ever now.
Idoit40fans wrote:I don't care about Jagr or his agent's intentions. What did Shero have to lose by putting on offer out there until 12:00:01 and then pulling it?
I think it's a safe bet that he pulled the $2M offer to Jagr in order to issue another offer for that money to another player. You can't have offers out there that put you over the cap limit because, if both were accepted, the Pens would be over the cap limit.
What other offer was out there? The Kennedy offer? No other offer could have been made until noon, so Kennedy's was the only possibility. Unless Jagr's offer was outrageous, Kennedy wouldn't have put them over.
Shero could've been planning an offer to any UFA at noon. In order to do that, he would've had to pull Jagr's offer in advance. Doing in 20 minutes before noon, so there was no question that his offer was off the table by the time noon rolled around, would be the prudent thing to do so as to not avoid any potential confusion.
You're saying that he gave Jagr three days to accept it, but pulling it at 11:40 was the difference between Jagr accepting it? I'm not buying that at all. Svoboda made it clear that he was fielding other offers and Shero reacted accordingly. More importantly, in my opinion, Shero reacted correctly.
RobRossi_Trib Rob Rossi
Last straw for #Pens was the other teams being brought in Thursday night. Way this was handled by Jagr doesn't sit well with #66. #tribpens
Pretty much tells me that he Penguins never got back to Jagr. Shero just withdraw the offer like he probably was planning all the time!
Pretty much tells me you have no idea what happened
I would say they withdrew the offer AFTER Svoboda mentioned MORE teams to them.
I think they are done with Svoboda. If Jagr HIMSELF called and said I'll sign I think they would still do it.
Jagr would never do that now even if he had planned to sign with the Penguins.
Why? Because what Shero did showed he had no interest in Jagr whatsoever.
Thats what irks me. I wish Jagr at least would have the chance to say yes or no.
How hard can it be to make a phone call?
Ask Jagr. He couldn't make a phone call for 2 days.
There's no reason to blame Shero or Svoboda for Jagr not signing here. If Jagr wants to be a Penguin for a discounted price, he can still do so. It's clear after 3 days, that he does not.
..Not to mention that Jagr has had months to think about this. If he truly wanted to return to Pittsburgh, then he would. It's all on him.
KG wrote:Lesky....pens aren't going to beg Jagr to come back...They made a fair offer (they feel) on Tuesday. Then Jagr starting getting other teams involved...
I have never asked them to beg from crying out loud, just say: ACCEPT OUR OFFER IN 15 MINUTES or the offer is gone! Not much too ask from Ray if he had any real interest in Jagr other than saving his own image.
And how do you know that they didn't do this? How can you blame Lemieux for not being very ticked off over the way Jagr and Svoboda have handled this?
I am disgusted by the way Jagr and his agent handled things and I am just as disgusted by how Shero ended things (Until I know all the details of what happened)
champeen wrote:Question for the capgeeks on the board- Is Shero legally required to withdraw the offer to Jagr before extending another one to someone else for an amount that, combined with 68's 2mil., would put them over the cap? Or can he have offers out to 6 players at once and then just take whoever bites first?
They can offer whatever they want to whoever they want, and just pull the other offers when they sign one of them.
Malkamaniac wrote:This thread has become an emotional trainwreck.
it's pretty clear Jagr deserves blame. when you have two classy organizations publicly announcing a withdrawal of a contract offer (which is very rare), it tells you something about the other party involved.
To continue to defend Jagr at this point is absurd beyond belief.
Pavement wrote:This thread has been great though, total rollercoaster
As far as drama goes, nothing could be better. This saga will go on for a week I bet.
If so, the team that signs him will either be a non-contender who has plenty of cap space - and Jagr will not make them a contender - or a team who missed out on other free agents with better upside potential by waiting for Jagr.
Lesky, you're high man. I would have liked Jagr to return as well, but if you can't step back and see where all the drama was coming from, I don't know what to tell you. I think you may want to consider stepping away from the computer and taking a walk.
I got caught up in reminiscing about Jagr's great time here but the bottom line is he doesn't fit the Pens system or culture that Shero & Bylsma created.
The hypothetical line with Neal-Geno-Jagr was a joke. The Pens would be playing with a 2 man disadvantage in the defensive zone if that were an actual line.
I believe there is value in statistical analysis more than most on this board, but hockey production isn't a linear equation. Just because Jagr could theoretically still have offensive potential, it doesn't mean he would be able to fit into the Pens system.
It would have been fun to see him come back and I'm sure he would have provided some great moments. On the whole though I'm not convinced it would have been a net gain in the end.
jjj5032 wrote:Ok im not trying to sound ignorant but everyone talks about how the penguins will "move on" to sign someone else. Who else is out there actually? What are we moving on to?
Idoit40fans wrote: Its a joke that Shero pulled the offer before an official offer even existed. Shero showed that he had no intention of signing Jagr by handling it this way, he put it on Jagr so the fans wouldn't lynch him.
What are you smoking? No "official offer?" It's been out there for a few days?
Out there and unable to be accepted. Jagr was never able to sign a contract, there was no real offer.
This is completely ignoring Jagr's intentions, which I'm sure were to mercenary himself to the highest bidder, but Shero showed his hand when he pulled the offer before FA started too.
Agreed 100%.
Svoboda is *****bag, Jagr is stupid and greedy and Shero in unclassy
I don't have a problem with Shero in general, but I don't understand why he handled this the way he did unless he had 0 intention of every signing Jagr, which is something I could understand.
jjj5032 wrote:Ok im not trying to sound ignorant but everyone talks about how the penguins will "move on" to sign someone else. Who else is out there actually? What are we moving on to?
Lesky, get a grip dude. You can freak out all you want and blame the Pens, but you are just making crap up. You, me, and everybody else here does not know how signing NHL players work.
I understand you're disappointed, but you kind of come across like a kid who did not get what he wanted on Christmas and are whining about it.
Suck it up and enjoy the ride... who know's what will happen next
pens2005 wrote:it's pretty clear Jagr deserves blame. when you have two classy organizations publicly announcing a withdrawal of a contract offer (which is very rare), it tells you something about the other party involved.
To continue to defend Jagr at this point is absurd beyond belief.
Lesky wrote:
Svoboda is *****bag, Jagr is stupid and greedy and Shero in unclassy
Ugh. FU. Seriously. To claim Shero has no class? You're nuts. That's all there is too it. You're freaking bonkers.
Shero may not have personally wanted Jagr -- we'll never know -- but the Penguins made a legitimate and fair offer. Shero has been nothing but classy and professional throughout this 6+ week saga of drama about a washed up 39 year old former superstar.
Idoit40fans wrote:I don't care about Jagr or his agent's intentions. What did Shero have to lose by putting on offer out there until 12:00:01 and then pulling it?
Signing him for more than he needed to? Detroit pulling their offer certainly suggests that Jagr and Svoboda overestimated the market for him.
This is all ridiculous. He had 3 days to accept the offer in waiting.
Heard about Pens pulling their offer 20 minutes before Free Agency started, heard that Detroit pulled theirs 10 minutes after.
Who cares? You saying there wasn't an offer to accept is like saying there were no negotiations taking place before noon.
Svoboda thought he could get a better offer, he couldn't. He blew it and lost both offers.
