LGP Political Discussion Thread

[doublem]

I am also curious as to how the anti-corporatists in here will view this. IMO, unions are just as powerful if not more powerful than the corporations themselves. They are just as much a threat as the CEOs we are always made out to be so afraid of.

That is crazy. Maybe, if all unions were like major league baseball I would agree with you.

You'll defend this sorpupt administration to the very end won't you?

Do you think they're doing *anything* wrong? Where would you like to see them do things differently?

Do you have trouble reading? Pretty much everything, I'm pretty sure I have listed my complaints with the Obama administration many times and what does that have to do with labor unions as some mythical threat undermining America?

[shafnutz05]

Because your "valid" point about unions includes, at minimum, one strawman, two broad generalizations, two instances of unnecessary hyperbole, and one unexplained legal accusation.

President Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi just crafted an amendment to their healthcare bill that excludes labor union healthcare plans from being taxed under the bill. However, everyone else that has a similar plan is going to get the hell taxed out of them. End of story. No strawman, no hyperbole.......and an unexplained legal accusation? Do you really think that favoring one group over another through tax policy is not unconstitutional? The fact that he is doing it because they represent a large Democratic voting bloc is even more inexcusable. I cannot fathom how you could defend this.

doublem, I want to know what you think of this. Tax policy used to garner favor with certain political groups and punish others.

[Guinness]

Question: Do you think that if we had your ideal version or system of Libertarian government that it would all work out in the end? Do you think that we only need to do X,Y and Z to have individual freedom and free markets? Do you see a positive outcome?

Uh, obviously. Do you think your view of things is destructive?

[doublem]

Question: Do you think that if we had your ideal version or system of Libertarian government that it would all work out in the end? Do you think that we only need to do X,Y and Z to have individual freedom and free markets? Do you see a positive outcome?

Uh, obviously. Do you think your view of things is destructive?

It wasn't an insult. Calm down or a debate. It was a serious question becasue I don't see a positive outcome to anyone's views. I don't think if you do X,Y and Z things will work out. I just see to many flaws in any system for lasting success.

[shafnutz05]

It wasn't an insult. Calm down or a debate. It was a serious question becasue I don't see a positive outcome to anyone's views.

My views always bring a positive outcome...the problem is I am not powerful enough to force them on everyone else

[Guinness]

Question: Do you think that if we had your ideal version or system of Libertarian government that it would all work out in the end? Do you think that we only need to do X,Y and Z to have individual freedom and free markets? Do you see a positive outcome?

Uh, obviously. Do you think your view of things is destructive?

It wasn't an insult. Calm down or a debate. It was a serious question becasue I don't see a positive outcome to anyone's views.

I wasn't insulted, bub. I just thought it would be an obvious answer to the question.

I absolutely see the results of the system I espouse as positive. This does not me that I believe that it would be the traditional conception of Utopia, where all men live together in happiness, and where all needs are met and nobody wants for anything.

[doublem]

Because your "valid" point about unions includes, at minimum, one strawman, two broad generalizations, two instances of unnecessary hyperbole, and one unexplained legal accusation.

President Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi just crafted an amendment to their healthcare bill that excludes labor union healthcare plans from being taxed under the bill. However, everyone else that has a similar plan is going to get the hell taxed out of them. End of story. No strawman, no hyperbole.......and an unexplained legal accusation? Do you really think that favoring one group over another through tax policy is not unconstitutional? The fact that he is doing it because they represent a large Democratic voting bloc is even more inexcusable. I cannot fathom how you could defend this.

doublem, I want to know what you think of this. Tax policy used to garner favor with certain political groups and punish others.

Do you have a link?

[Guinness]

It wasn't an insult. Calm down or a debate. It was a serious question becasue I don't see a positive outcome to anyone's views.

My views always bring a positive outcome...the problem is I am not powerful enough to force them on everyone else

Convince people that you are god... er, I mean, run for President.

[doublem]

I don't think anyone thinks of Utopia anymore.

[doublem]

http://www.salon.com/news/media_critici ... k_open2010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For a year, national reporters (with help from conservative talk-radio goons) have depicted the center-right Obama administration and its corporatist policies as quasi-Marxist. We've heard that a government-run public healthcare option is a "liberal" cause, even as polls confirm that most Americans -- not just liberals -- support the idea. We're told that legislators backing no-strings-attached bank bailouts are mainstream "centrists," while bailout opponents are extremists -- even as public opinion surveys say the opposite.

[Guinness]

http://www.salon.com/news/media_critici ... k_open2010

For a year, national reporters (with help from conservative talk-radio goons) have depicted the center-right Obama administration and its corporatist policies as quasi-Marxist. We've heard that a government-run public healthcare option is a "liberal" cause, even as polls confirm that most Americans -- not just liberals -- support the idea. We're told that legislators backing no-strings-attached bank bailouts are mainstream "centrists," while bailout opponents are extremists -- even as public opinion surveys say the opposite.

Disappointingly boring use of the old left/right paradigm.

[doublem]

http://www.salon.com/news/media_critici ... k_open2010

For a year, national reporters (with help from conservative talk-radio goons) have depicted the center-right Obama administration and its corporatist policies as quasi-Marxist. We've heard that a government-run public healthcare option is a "liberal" cause, even as polls confirm that most Americans -- not just liberals -- support the idea. We're told that legislators backing no-strings-attached bank bailouts are mainstream "centrists," while bailout opponents are extremists -- even as public opinion surveys say the opposite.

Disappointingly boring use of the old left/right paradigm.

But when people claim Obama is a far left Marxist it kind of skews someone that is on the left and what the left is becasue Obama is not one.

[Geezer]

For a year, national reporters (with help from conservative talk-radio goons) have depicted the center-right Obama administration and its corporatist policies as quasi-Marxist. We've heard that a government-run public healthcare option is a "liberal" cause, even as polls confirm that most Americans -- not just liberals -- support the idea. We're told that legislators backing no-strings-attached bank bailouts are mainstream "centrists," while bailout opponents are extremists -- even as public opinion surveys say the opposite.

[/quote]

Disappointingly boring use of the old left/right paradigm.[/quote]

But when people claim Obama is a far left Marxist it kind of skews someone that is on the left and what the left is becasue Obama is not one.[/quote]
Obama was credited / disredited , depending on your politics,as having the most liberal voting record in the Senate. He ran on the "leftiest" platform since George McGovern. He's to the left of McGovern but that should be viewed from the fact that in the 36 years between those elections the country in general has moved further to the left. Obama is trying to have the government run healthcare, adopt cap & trade, is dedicated to redistribution of wealth in America and backs unions more than any WH since LBJ.His cabinet and czar choices further prove his far leftist credentials. And he's center - right in your view? Who's a centrist in doublem world ; Hugo Chavez?

[doublem]

For a year, national reporters (with help from conservative talk-radio goons) have depicted the center-right Obama administration and its corporatist policies as quasi-Marxist. We've heard that a government-run public healthcare option is a "liberal" cause, even as polls confirm that most Americans -- not just liberals -- support the idea. We're told that legislators backing no-strings-attached bank bailouts are mainstream "centrists," while bailout opponents are extremists -- even as public opinion surveys say the opposite.

Disappointingly boring use of the old left/right paradigm.[/quote]

But when people claim Obama is a far left Marxist it kind of skews someone that is on the left and what the left is becasue Obama is not one.[/quote]
Obama was credited / disredited , depending on your politics,as having the most liberal voting record in the Senate. He ran on the "leftiest" platform since George McGovern. He's to the left of McGovern but that should be viewed from the fact that in the 36 years between those elections the country in general has moved further to the left. Obama is trying to have the government run healthcare, adopt cap & trade, is dedicated to redistribution of wealth in America and backs unions more than any WH since LBJ.His cabinet and czar choices further prove his far leftist credentials. And he's center - right in your view? Who's a centrist in doublem world ; Hugo Chavez?[/quote]

Puh leaasee. Kind of proves my point thank you very much.

[Geezer]

Anyone in this thread consider Obama as center right?

[doublem]

Anyone in this thread consider Obama as center right?

OHHHHHHoho MEEEEEE, COACH, Put me in. It kind of shows how to the right the majority of people are.

[cs6687]

Anyone in this thread consider Obama as center right?

OHHHHHHoho MEEEEEE, COACH, Put me in. It kind of shows how to the right the majority of people are.

And that's a bad thing?

[shafnutz05]

I find it utterly hilarious people refer to Obama as "center-right".

[Guinness]

Disappointingly boring use of the old left/right paradigm.

But when people claim Obama is a far left Marxist it kind of skews someone that is on the left and what the left is becasue Obama is not one.

Statism is on the left. Therefore, Obama is a leftist.

[Guinness]

http://www.salon.com/news/media_critici ... k_open2010

For a year, national reporters (with help from conservative talk-radio goons) have depicted the center-right Obama administration and its corporatist policies as quasi-Marxist. We've heard that a government-run public healthcare option is a "liberal" cause, even as polls confirm that most Americans -- not just liberals -- support the idea. We're told that legislators backing no-strings-attached bank bailouts are mainstream "centrists," while bailout opponents are extremists -- even as public opinion surveys say the opposite.

How nice (and unsurprising) to learn, by the way, that a majority of Americans support enlisting the only agency in society with the socially sanctioned authority to commit armed robbery in order to secure some particular good for themselves.

I guess that settles that matter.

[Guinness]

Disappointingly boring use of the old left/right paradigm.

But when people claim Obama is a far left Marxist it kind of skews someone that is on the left and what the left is becasue Obama is not one.

By the way, wasn't it you who was saying that GWB's presidency had finally discredited "conservatism"? I guess then, by that logic, we can put "liberalism" to bed, too, right?

[doublem]

Disappointingly boring use of the old left/right paradigm.

But when people claim Obama is a far left Marxist it kind of skews someone that is on the left and what the left is becasue Obama is not one.

By the way, wasn't it you who was saying that GWB's presidency had finally discredited "conservatism"? I guess then, by that logic, we can put "liberalism" to bed, too, right?

Sure, it's fine with me becasue Obama isn't to the left at all on anything important anyways. He is part of the same problem that has been going on for decades. Doesn't really matter to me either way.

[shafnutz05]

Obama had the most liberal voting record in the United States Senate.

He supports nationalized healthcare, is bought and paid for by labor unions, supports amnesty, supports cap and trade legislation, is a fighter for increased taxes, spends taxpayer dollars like they are going out of style, etc etc etc etc

To suggest that Obama is somehow not far-left and/or liberal is the most asinine thing I have ever heard. Bill Clinton realized that it was vital to follow "the third way"....Barack Obama believes in "his own way or the highway".

[doublem]

Anyone in this thread consider Obama as center right?

OHHHHHHoho MEEEEEE, COACH, Put me in. It kind of shows how to the right the majority of people are.

And that's a bad thing?

No, just don't tell me we are on our way to a socialist paradise and the crazy lefties are taking over. I think its pretty clear that the country is pretty to the right, particularly on economic issues.

[doublem]

Obama had the most liberal voting record in the United States Senate.

He supports nationalized healthcare, is bought and paid for by labor unions, supports amnesty, supports cap and trade legislation, is a fighter for increased taxes, spends taxpayer dollars like they are going out of style, etc etc etc etc

To suggest that Obama is somehow not far-left and/or liberal is the most asinine thing I have ever heard. Bill Clinton realized that it was vital to follow "the third way"....Barack Obama believes in "his own way or the highway".

All of those things are untrue at one level or another. The United States does not have nationalized health care and all those other things you listed are pretty much in line with about the last 5 or so presidents.