LGP Political Discussion Thread

[shafnutz05]

LOL..............now that is a story I can get behind. I take back everything I said about Congress and the president....

In all seriousness, that is awesome. I frigging HATE the loud commercials

[shafnutz05]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser ... ed-in.html

Obama warning us that the federal government will go bankrupt if we don't pass his healthcare bill. His presidency is quickly moving in the direction of pathetic. Before Congress passed his bloated "stimulus" bill, he scared Americans into believing that unemployment would soar above 8% if we didn't pass his bill. Now it's at 10%+, even after trillions of dollars of "stimulus" spending. Now, he is trying to pull the scare card again....telling us that this expensive bill will somehow save the government from bankruptcy, even as he takes the national debt to new, dizzying heights. How do just under half of the American people still approve of this buffoon? His term has been one lie/flub/embarrassment after another. It says a lot that over 40% of Americans are wishing Bush was back in office...and I think that number will rise. I am finding myself missing Bush a whole hell of a lot.

[slappybrown]

It says a lot that over 40% of Americans are wishing Bush was back in office...and I think that number will rise.

link?

[shafnutz05]

Sure....44% to be exact. I couldn't believe it either. I think that is another sign that Obama's modus operandi of blaming Bush for every single failure he has made has already lost a lot of traction and credibility.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ ... e_gap.html

Perhaps the greatest measure of Obama’s declining support is that just 50% of voters now say they prefer having him as President to George W. Bush, with 44% saying they’d rather have his predecessor. Given the horrendous approval ratings Bush showed during his final term that’s somewhat of a surprise and an indication that voters are increasingly placing the blame on Obama for the country’s difficulties instead of giving him space because of the tough situation he inherited. The closeness in the Obama/Bush numbers also has implications for the 2010 elections. Using the Bush card may not be particularly effective for Democrats anymore, which is good news generally for Republicans and especially ones like Rob Portman who are running for office and have close ties to the former President.

[Troy Loney]

It says a lot that over 40% of Americans are wishing Bush was back in office...and I think that number will rise.

link?

No one has the right health care solution...all bush did was concede that point and went after social security instead....i think he had the right idea about dealing with social security, but just didnt go about it properly, or with enough conviction...he was too busy starting wars and bankrupting the government.

And how has Obama's economic policies been anything different than an extension of Bush's policies in the months leading up to the end of his term....you have an awfully selective memory/knowledge base here shaft.

[slappybrown]

Wow. And the PPP is a democratic party affiliated group.

[shafnutz05]

Troy.....I totally agree. No selective memory at all. The last six months or so of Bush's term, on an economic basis, were horrible. I have stated that several times. The TARP bill should have never been passed, because it opened up the Pandora's Box of "stimulus" garbage. I have said numerous times that Bush crapped the bed economically at the end of his term.

The problem is, Obama is taking those policies and multiplying them by 1,000. 1.5 million more people are unemployed than Obama warned there would be if we DIDN'T pass his stimulus. And now he is trying to pull the same crap again. He ran as this wise, centrist unifier, that would work hard to erase the deficit, be fiscally responsible, and elevate the Office of the President above the fray of partisan politics. His PR team did wonders, didn't they?

[shafnutz05]

And the fact that the Democrats are still hellbent on passing cap and trade legislation, despite all of the proof coming out that the science is fraudulent, shows just how out of touch they are. We are in the middle of a recession, and Obama/Pelosi/Reid actually want to pass a bill that will severely cripple the economy and destroy millions of jobs, based on this desire to fight the bogeyman of global warming. Quite frankly, it would be funny if it wasn't so scary.

[Troy Loney]

Troy.....I totally agree. No selective memory at all. The last six months or so of Bush's term, on an economic basis, were horrible. I have stated that several times. The TARP bill should have never been passed, because it opened up the Pandora's Box of "stimulus" garbage. I have said numerous times that Bush crapped the bed economically at the end of his term.

The problem is, Obama is taking those policies and multiplying them by 1,000. 1.5 million more people are unemployed than Obama warned there would be if we DIDN'T pass his stimulus. And now he is trying to pull the same crap again. He ran as this wise, centrist unifier, that would work hard to erase the deficit, be fiscally responsible, and elevate the Office of the President above the fray of partisan politics. His PR team did wonders, didn't they?

Your looking at it from a fish bowl or some thing...i'm not sure what the term is. We'll have no idea what federal policies were right, and which were wrong...and even 50 years from now people will be arguing whether bush/obama handled things properly (new deal still pins right vs left).

So to me your rash conclusions to the Obama's first year, dealing with a huge economic crisis is pretty absurd....you cant just make the assertations about what the federal government is doing, and just because idiot right wing media people are telling you the world is ending you don't have to rant about it all the time....

[shafnutz05]

Troy....I am not making bizarre judgments. Obama scared the population into supporting his stimulus, and he outright lied about how it would affect unemployment. He is doing the same thing now. Quite frankly, they both did a crappy job dealing with it, but here is the key, fundamental difference:

Bush: Believed that economic growth came from putting more money in the hands of consumers, to spend on goods and services.

Obama: Believes that economic growth comes from putting more money in the hands of the federal government.

That's the main problem I have. Hey at least I am confining my rants to the political thread

[thehockeyguru]

"The liberals' longtime dream of a government-run health care system for all died Wednesday in the Senate, but Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont vowed it will return when the realization dawns that private insurance companies "are no longer needed.""

[slappybrown]

Troy....I am not making bizarre judgments. Obama scared the population into supporting his stimulus, and he outright lied about how it would affect unemployment. He is doing the same thing now. Quite frankly, they both did a crappy job dealing with it, but here is the key, fundamental difference:

Bush: Believed that economic growth came from putting more money in the hands of consumers, to spend on goods and services.

Obama: Believes that economic growth comes from putting more money in the hands of the federal government.

That's the main problem I have. Hey at least I am confining my rants to the political thread

These are the kind of statements that Troy (I think) is talking about. He didnt "scare" anyone; increase govt spending to stimulate an economy as policy/theory is nothing new, and it was around before and will be around long after Obama. You can disagree with the economic ideas underpinning and thats fine; but that kind of reactionary tone just makes you sound like a hack.

And do you sincerely believe that he "lied"? You dont think that his view was that it would help unemployment? Why would he intentionally take an action that he knows will fail? If it doesnt work -- and so far I agree with you that it has not -- then you'll have the chance to express your displeasure in 2010 and 2012. But all this demonizing and extreme rhetoric is just ridiculous. (And yes, plenty on the left were just as guilty of it during the Bush years. Both sides do plenty of it.)

[shafnutz05]

OK, I can see your point. I am just saying...Obama warned us that failure to pass the stimulus would result in "8% unemployment", and now we are at or over 10%. He is trying to do the same thing now with healthcare...thankfully, it is falling on deaf ears.

It's gonna be real interesting to see what happens with the economy going into 2010. I predict a double-dip recession, but I hope I am wrong.

[thehockeyguru]

These are the kind of statements that Troy (I think) is talking about. He didnt "scare" anyone; increase govt spending to stimulate an economy as policy/theory is nothing new, and it was around before and will be around long after Obama. You can disagree with the economic ideas underpinning and thats fine; but that kind of reactionary tone just makes you sound like a hack.

But when it was done properly the government created the Works Progress Administration and it created some 8 million jobs while completing projects of civic value. I dont think the spending is wrong if you have something to show for it.

[Guinness]

These are the kind of statements that Troy (I think) is talking about. He didnt "scare" anyone; increase govt spending to stimulate an economy as policy/theory is nothing new, and it was around before and will be around long after Obama. You can disagree with the economic ideas underpinning and thats fine; but that kind of reactionary tone just makes you sound like a hack.

Agreed. Didn't Hank Paulson tell us that civilization as we know it would have come to an end if TARP wasn't passed?

[slappybrown]

OK, I can see your point. I am just saying...Obama warned us that failure to pass the stimulus would result in "8% unemployment", and now we are at or over 10%. He is trying to do the same thing now with healthcare...thankfully, it is falling on deaf ears.

It's gonna be real interesting to see what happens with the economy going into 2010. I predict a double-dip recession, but I hope I am wrong.

Based on my industry and the general landscape of clients we service across a broad range -- financial institutions, manufacturing, and service providers like telecoms -- 2010 isnt going to see a serious uptick, and it'll likely be fairly stagnant. I think the democrats will see serious losses in Congress in 2010, and the question become do we see a serious recovery in 2011 such that Obama can save himself for a run in 2012.

[Troy Loney]

But all this demonizing and extreme rhetoric is just ridiculous. (And yes, plenty on the left were just as guilty of it during the Bush years. Both sides do plenty of it.)

yeah...i mean olberman is just as unbearable as o'reilly....but where John Stewart is funny and entertaining, Hannity & Beck are diversive people that try and use intimidation and demonizing tactics to get their point across...they're disgusting people

[shafnutz05]

In the Weekly Standard this morning...20 senators are demanding an investigation. I doubt anything will come of this, but wouldn't doubt for a second that it's true. Rahm Emanuel is about the dirtiest player in the game.

While the Democrats appease Senator Lieberman, they still have to worry about other recalcitrant Democrats including Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson. Though Lieberman has been out front in the fight against the public option and the Medicare buy-in, Nelson was critical of both. Now that those provisions appear to have been stripped from the bill, Lieberman may get on board, but Nelson's demand that taxpayer money not be used to fund abortion has still not been met. According to a Senate aide, the White House is now threatening to put Nebraska's Offutt Air Force Base on the BRAC list if Nelson doesn't fall into line.

Offutt Air Force Base employs some 10,000 military and federal employees in Southeastern Nebraska. As our source put it, this is a "naked effort by Rahm Emanuel and the White House to extort Nelson's vote." They are "threatening to close a base vital to national security for what?" asked the Senate staffer.

Indeed, Offutt is the headquarters for US Strategic Command, the successor to Strategic Air Command, and not by accident. STRATCOM was located in the middle of the country for strategic reasons. Its closure would be a massive blow to the economy of the state of Nebraska, but it would also be another example of this administration playing politics with our national security.

[SoupOrSam]

OK, I can see your point. I am just saying...Obama warned us that failure to pass the stimulus would result in "8% unemployment", and now we are at or over 10%. He is trying to do the same thing now with healthcare...thankfully, it is falling on deaf ears.

It's gonna be real interesting to see what happens with the economy going into 2010. I predict a double-dip recession, but I hope I am wrong.

Based on my industry and the general landscape of clients we service across a broad range -- financial institutions, manufacturing, and service providers like telecoms -- 2010 isnt going to see a serious uptick, and it'll likely be fairly stagnant. I think the democrats will see serious losses in Congress in 2010, and the question become do we see a serious recovery in 2011 such that Obama can save himself for a run in 2012.

Of course. They have been hoarding the $$$ set aside to create jobs so when 2011 rolls around they can create a few thousand jobs repairing more bridges and holding signs because that's what creates wealth oh don't ya know.

But then again... it doesn't really matter. Time stops in 2012!!!

[ExPatriatePen]

Mr. B+ better start remembering that he was "Elected to serve the people"... to quote the ultra liberal Keith Olbermann

[Guinness]

Mr. B+

I thought that comment really revealed the depth of this guy's vanity, not to mention hubris.

Of course, this distinguishes him from nearly all politicians in Washington not at all... other than his inability to stay "in character" without the guidance of his handlers.

[Guinness]

[youtube][/youtube]

Awesome monologue by the Judge.

I flipped by and saw John "I'd walk all over the Constitution in golf shoes" Gibson on with Beck the other day and my teeth almost fell out.

[doublem]

So let me get this straight food,clothing, shelter, and health care aren't rights, but some vague term like god given "rights"or extended from our humanity, BTW what does that mean? Seems like all those other rights are kind of meaningless if you don't have food or shelter. Right to travel, now that's a new one. I never heard of any documents that said you have a right to travel. And where does the right to be left only come from exactly?

So what does the Judge think we should do for people that don't have health care and get sick or go to the E.R.? He's got some rights alright.

[Guinness]

So let me get this straight food,clothing, shelter, and health care aren't rights, but some vague term like god given "rights"or extended from our humanity, BTW what does that mean? Seems like all those other rights are kind of meaningless if you don't have food or shelter. Right to travel, now that's a new one. I never heard of any documents that said you have a right to travel. And where does the right to be left only come from exactly?

So what does the Judge think we should do for people that don't have health care and get sick or go to the E.R.? He's got some rights alright.

I'm surprised at you, displaying such an ignorance about that which he's speaking.

How do you make a case that goods such as food, clothing, shelter, and health care are rights? How do you "protect" (i.e., "provide") those rights? You cannot do so, without infringing upon other people's rights.

[youtube][/youtube]

[doublem]

So let me get this straight food,clothing, shelter, and health care aren't rights, but some vague term like god given "rights"or extended from our humanity, BTW what does that mean? Seems like all those other rights are kind of meaningless if you don't have food or shelter. Right to travel, now that's a new one. I never heard of any documents that said you have a right to travel. And where does the right to be left only come from exactly?

So what does the Judge think we should do for people that don't have health care and get sick or go to the E.R.? He's got some rights alright.

I'm surprised at you, displaying such an ignorance about that which he's speaking.

How do you make a case that goods such as food, clothing, shelter, and health care are rights? How do you "protect" (i.e., "provide") those rights? You cannot do so, without infringing upon other people's rights.

[youtube][/youtube]

If you are a human being born on this planet you have the right to food, shelter, clothing and some type of health care to keep on living if you get sick. Of course this isn't always the case becasue other humans try to control one another but all people should have these things. I also like how these people throw god around but don't think it's a right to have food. What kind of god would be like that? The judge like most people that think like him value property over people.