LGP Political Discussion Thread

[doublem]

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't posted a Double G article in a while. Another great point about our decaying system.

It's impossible to find a more perfectly representative face for the rotted Washington establishment than Evan Bayh. He is the pure expression of virtually every attribute that makes the Beltway so dysfunctional, deceitful and corrupt.

He is a loyal servant to the insurance and health care industries over his own constituents -- as his wife sits on the Boards of numerous health care giants, who, right when Bayh became a Senator, began paying her millions of dollars in cash and stock. And this Sermonizer of Personal Responsibility is the ultimate by-product of nepotism, following faithfully and effortlessly in the footsteps of his Daddy-Senator, whose seat he now occupies. The fact that he's a Democrat -- and was Obama's close-second choice for Vice President -- just underscores how bipartisan these afflictions are.

[bh]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-ge ... .Congress/

NEW YORK — The chairman of the Federal Reserve is concerned that congressional efforts at financial reform could weaken the central bank's ability to handle future crises and may politicize monetary policy.
Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke made the comments in an Op-Ed piece to appear in Sunday's Washington Post, five days before the Senate Banking committee holds a hearing on his nomination for a second term. His current four-year term expires Jan. 31.
Bernanke wrote the nation is challenged to design a financial oversight system that will "embody the lessons of the past two years and provide a robust framework for preventing future crises and the economic damage they cause."
But two proposals being considered "are very much out of step with the global consensus on the appropriate role of central banks, and they would seriously impair the prospects for economic and financial stability in the United States," he said.

Ok, so it is your job to make sure that money is stable and to act in order to provide stability. Has the last 96 years been stable? What have you done to provide financial stability? Did the Fed prevent the current economic turbulence? Whatever you're doing Ben, it's not working. If the last few years doesn't prove that the Fed is nothing but BS then we all deserve whats comming. There has to be a better way out there than this crap.

[Guinness]

Ok, so it is your job to make sure that money is stable and to act in order to provide stability. Has the last 96 years been stable? What have you done to provide financial stability? Did the Fed prevent the current economic turbulence? Whatever you're doing Ben, it's not working. If the last few years doesn't prove that the Fed is nothing but BS then we all deserve whats comming. There has to be a better way out there than this crap.

95 USD in 2009 = 1 USD in 1913.

Thank you, Federal Reserve.

[Geezer]

The Sudan? What are you, a 19th century British officer?

Good one.

[Geezer]

The Sudan offered to turn over Bin Laden to the US when Clinton was in office. Not only would the Iraq war been unlikely but 911 might not have happened. I was ticked at the time when Tommy Franks let the Taliban walk away into Pakistan. Why did it take all these years for these hack senators to develop such an amazing grasp of the perfectly obvious? Just another example of what useless POS that pols are.

I heard about that before, but never made up my mind on what really happened. I tried looking it up just now, but got conflicting results. In 1996, Bin Laden hasn't attacked us yet, so there'd be no case to be made. But if he was named as having a role in the 1993 bombing (newsmax), then maybe that is not so. However, I don't remember who the prosecutors were or if they had any sort of political agenda.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_didn't_cl ... to_america
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/d ... nce_1.html
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/ ... 1819.shtml
http://www.politicalforum.com/current-e ... nce-9.html

My point is that letting the Taliban escape was a serious blunder but the pols weren't second-guessing then, at least not very loudly. At this point what are they adding to the current problem. There are many issues that could be revisited related to the current state of affairs. Bush Sr. seemed to allow himself to be nagged into putting some troops into Somalia with Clintom being one of the chief harpies. After Clinton was in office he muddles around, got a few dozen Rangers killed and pulled out. What did that whole execise accomplish? Somalia isn't any better off today after that fiasco.
The 911 stuff was even worse. You had a blame Bush crowd even though Clinton had followed a fluff policy against terrorism for 8 years. What I've always wondered is what was in the secret documents that Sandy Berger stole and destroyed from the archives. I'm all for learning from past mistakes but this "new found" (after 7 years) Tora Bora revisited just seems like more Pelosi-ism.

[shafnutz05]

http://blogs.mcall.com/capitol_ideas/2009/11/the.html

Dear God in heaven...........Barack Obama is holding yet ANOTHER primetime press conference tonight? I don't know how much more of this guy I can take. Does he really think that constantly appearing on everyone's television is going to improve his poll numbers? I don't even understand why he needs to hold a press conference to announce his plan for Afghanistan. Why couldn't he give this speech at 11 AM or noon, which are also customary times for this? Oh, that's right....because he is an egomaniac that gains an insane amount of pleasure from his celebrity status.

Even worse, he has the nerve to preempt a Charlie Brown Christmas. On a serious note, the majority of Americans are not happy at all with the president right now. A poll yesterday by Rasmussen indicated that almost half of Americans are "very angry" at the government, while a whopping 73% are just plain "angry". If he thinks forcing people to endure another hour of his droning into a teleprompter will help his cause, then so be it.

[shafnutz05]

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/11 ... litico.php

And in other news, the White House appears to be waging a private war against yet another independent media outlet. IMO, the blatant attempts by the White House to marginalize and silence any media outlets that report unfavorable information are very reminiscent of one Richard Milhouse Nixon. This is the nastiest administration I have seen in my short lifetime.

[RJW76]

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/z ... videoembed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HomerPenguin]

For anyone - let alone you - to suggest that someone might have the market cornered on "ad nauseum"...

Which of course I didn't do, but OK.

Clearly you're a little scorned by the praise some have received around NHR lately...

Really, I can assure you, I'm not. This thread can go back into my ignore bin now.

[eddysnake]

http://blogs.mcall.com/capitol_ideas/2009/11/the.html

Dear God in heaven...........Barack Obama is holding yet ANOTHER primetime press conference tonight?

I'm fed up with them as well, looks like he may be talking about ending the Afghan war

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/01/ ... index.html

President Obama is sending 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan but plans to conclude the war and withdraw most U.S. service members within three years, senior administration officials told CNN Tuesday.

Thats still too long for me, but I gotta say, thats some positive news

[eddysnake]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11 ... istan-war/

"The war is terribly important," ... Jobs and our economy are terribly important. So this may be an audacious suggestion, but I would suggest we put aside the health care debate until next year,...

Another great example of whats wrong with our government. Obviously if its so important, they wouldn't be taking vacation. Can the US Government actually not work on more than one thing at a time? I feel like the US is controlled by a bunch of morons and it gets worse every day

[doublem]

Yea, debt is a problem.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09335/1017588-100.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sarcastic]

My point is that letting the Taliban escape was a serious blunder but the pols weren't second-guessing then, at least not very loudly. At this point what are they adding to the current problem.

Yeah, I agree with you on the Taliban. I think that once it was decided we're going to fight them, we should have done a better job from the start. Now we're going to chase them all over 2 countries. And they're obviously more ready to fight back.

[Sarcastic]

So what did everyone think of Obama's speech?

I thought it was good. He's a good speaker. Unlike GW, who at times looked like he carried a pound of.... in the back of his pants.

Only issue I have is whether we can be successful. I'm split 50/50 on that. The problem with groups like these is that you can take 99.9% of them out, but the remaining 5 guys can still cross over to the US at any time and blow something up.

But I would really like to see the Taliban dismantled. I came to that conclusion a while ago, after seeing videos of their treatment of women. And people in general. The public beatings, etc..

I will say that I agreed with McCain who said that making a withdrawal timeline is unrealistic. If things aren't ready 18 months from now, Obama will just have to extend it.

I'm really torn on this Afghanistan issue. I don't want to sacrifice another life of a soldier or another dollar on this, but I can still see the footage in my head and hear the helpless screams of a woman being held down and beaten with a stick in public. I don't want to see their influence spread across the M.E..

[doublem]

We aren't stopping the horrible behavior of the Taliban and treatment of their citizens. We have been in that country for over eight years and it hasn't changed. The country is so corrupt. We pay have the Taliban to not shot at U.S. armed forces and then they use that money to attack the military. The government is rotten to the core. Clearly, looking back on it, after dismantling the Taliban we should have left. It appears like we will never leave, just like we never leave any country. I don't see the good we are doing or why we need to risk lives on something that looks like it can't be fixed.

[doublem]

Can we not admit Obama is not this crazy "left wing nut" or even more of a reformer? If you look at the breakdown of the speech today, Obama and Bush's are almost the same. He is nothing more than Washington status quo

[Sarcastic]

I keep saying I don't see so much difference between the two. I voted for him. I hoped. I'm still hoping he'll surprise me. But whatever. I just think he's part of the big machine. Republican or Democrat, it doesn't matter.

Going back to the Taliban, I don't think we'll be out in 18 months. I'm thinking 3 years, maybe 5. And I doubt we'll ever want to leave fully, just like Iraq. That's why we're building a huge base over there. It is nation building, to be sure.

I would like to know what happens to the 150,000 or so mercenaries we have there.

[Sarcastic]

I have posted links about the growing inequality in this country before. Why doesn't anyone talk about this, media, politicians, anyone??? How long can you continue to claim your the "greatest nation in the world" when the number of children born into poverty goes up yearly?? No one seems to notice, no one seems to care. It's just pushed under the rug.

I'm thinking pride, hope, shame and disbelief this is happening in our country, all rolled into one. That's for the public. Although, I see the anger brewing. And the super wealthy don't care. Politicians are in their hands. Media? They own the media. Lou Dobbs said he left CNN because they wanted him to become a parrot who'd just read off a paper handed to him and cut out his personal opinion.

[MWB]

This is a little off topic, but I just finished reading John Krakauer's "Where Men Win Glory" about Pat Tillman. Very interesting read. It goes beyond just Tillman and discusses the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan along with how the media is used in war.

[shafnutz05]

Can we not admit Obama is not this crazy "left wing nut" or even more of a reformer? If you look at the breakdown of the speech today, Obama and Bush's are almost the same. He is nothing more than Washington status quo

I'm sorry, but there is a difference. He was the most left-wing member of the United States Senate....his voting record backs that up. In his first year, he has spent FAR more than any other president in American history, adjusted for inflation. He is trying to pass socialized medicine (yes, let's call a spade a spade). He is so desperate to pass cap and trade (AKA the limitless taxation bill) that his own court jester Robert Gibbs continues to tell us that the science is impeccable and unquestionable. He has a history of associating with known radicals like Bill Ayers, and subscribes to black liberation theology (I know everyone is tired of hearing about Reverend Wright, but he went to the church for almost two decades). His Cabinet is about as far left as it can get...Atty. General Holder actually had the gall to say that ACORN must be given their money, even after all this controversy has come out about them. And let's talk about promises:

1) "No new taxes on anyone under <salary figure here>" - Technically true....if you don't count the upcoming cap and trade bill, which will cost EVERY American (regardless of salary), hundreds or thousands of dollars a year on increased energy costs. And don't forget, increased energy costs makes everything more expensive - food, toilet paper, dish detergent, etc etc etc.

2) "No lobbyists in my Cabinet!" - He broke that promise almost immediately...and then said that he was making an "exception". He has made several "exceptions" since then.

His policies are so radical that his team is forced to lie about them. For example:

1) "Any healthcare bill that passes Congress will be budget-neutral!" - Does anyone really believe this? Really? For starters, the bill isn't going to be under a billion dollars, as they keep telling us. Fully implemented, the current bill will cost $2.5 trillion over 10 years. Even worse, we are going to be taxed on it right away, while the effects won't be implemented for three years. That's right....we will be paying higher taxes for the next three years before it even takes effect.

There is a big reason why independents, who so strongly voted for Obama in 2008, are running to the conservative side in droves. Obama ran as a moderate...can we all agree on that? Ever since he was elected....well as Dennis Green would say, "He is who we thought he was!" Obama has a history of being in the left-wing of the Democratic Party, let's not pretend that suddenly he is some moderate who is similar to Bush.

[penny lane]

I will hold President Obama to his exodus timeline. Salute and praise to the cadets who serve without questions.

The war in Iraq is/was all on Bush & Cheney.

[shafnutz05]

I will hold President Obama to his exodus timeline. Salute and praise to the cadets who serve without questions.

The war in Iraq is/was all on Bush & Cheney.

However, I don't like the idea of sending more troops over there, while at the same time telling the Taliban that if they can just fight like hell until 2013 we will be out of there. When you tell an insurgent group that they only have to last for 3 more years to assure victory, they will fight 10x more aggressively. I feel terrible for the soldiers that have to go over there and face a newly rejuvenated Taliban.

What's the way to go? Tactical strikes. We have the best military equipment on Earth, and we still rely most heavily on foot soldiers running around in unfamiliar territory, fighting against an enemy that knows how to use the land to their advantage. This mistake has been repeated since time immemorial.....the Revolution, Civil War, Vietnam, etc. Rely heavily on intelligence....boost our intelligence-gathering apparatus, and use that to make surgical strikes utilizing either small elite strike forces, manned air raids, or cruise missile strikes. Much less casualties, much cheaper, more effective.

[shafnutz05]

And doublem, I will give you that, in regards to the Afghan/Iraq War, Obama is very similar to Bush. I don't think this is because of Obama's personal beliefs, I just think he is scared to death to make a strong move in either direction. On everything else (social issues, the role of government, economics, etc) he is as left-wing as they come

[shafnutz05]

I am strongly against the idea of setting public timelines....you are essentially telling the enemy how long they have to last, and it allows them to strategize. If he wants to set a timeline for eventual withdrawal...hey, I am all for it! But to fly to West Point for a convenient photo op, and announce numbers and dates to the world? That only hurts our guys that are over there. Don't be surprised to see the Taliban escalate their fight bigtime over the next several months.

[eddysnake]

However, I don't like the idea of sending more troops over there, while at the same time telling the Taliban that if they can just fight like hell until 2013 we will be out of there. When you tell an insurgent group that they only have to last for 3 more years to assure victory, they will fight 10x more aggressively. I feel terrible for the soldiers that have to go over there and face a newly rejuvenated Taliban.

yeah, I don't really know what to make of the deadline. I'm glad we "plan" on being out of there in 3 yrs, but I don't really know what this says. Is this the cocky USA saying we are sending over one last group of soldiers to clean house and wrap this up, is this Obama saying in 3 yrs the Afghan war will be over which conveniently conicides with the next term?