LGP Political Discussion Thread

[shafnutz05]

To add onto Samsdog's post, I would love a Romney/Jindal ticket. If Romney wins, let Jindal run for prez later on. He is only 38. We could have had Jesus Christ on the Republican ticket for president in 2008, and even he would not have defeated the Hollywood Christ. Obama was winning, and there was nothing that could be done to stop it.

[Samsdog]

To add onto Samsdog's post, I would love a Romney/Jindal ticket. If Romney wins, let Jindal run for prez later on. He is only 38. We could have had Jesus Christ on the Republican ticket for president in 2008, and even he would not have defeated the Hollywood Christ. Obama was winning, and there was nothing that could be done to stop it.

That would be a good ticket. Given Romney's unparalleled economic know how and Jindal's likability that would be a very popular ticket and one that would stand a great chance of making some huge strides towards fixing the economy.

[bh]

Obama set to announce a troop surge of at least 25k for Afghanistan next week:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 929794.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have a question, though, regarding Afghanistan: from a national security perspective, I can't quite figure out what a "victory" in Afghanistan would actually look like. If we take Sec Hillary's word, victory is making sure Afghanistan is no longer a staging point for terrorists; yet, given that we are dealing with a narco-state and currently allied forces are paying the hostiles not to shoot at them, it would seem to me that this simple-to-understand goal would take decades and probably trillions of dollars to accomplish. But even assuming that this can be done, and we can afford to do it, what happens when the very transient terrorists move to destabilize nuclear-armed Pakistan (which is already happening)? This doesn't seem like a very good trade-off IMO. But let's say that we are able to contain Afghanistan and Pakistan - what are we going to do when the terrorists move to another 3rd-world country? Are we going to nation-build every 3rd world country to a point where they are no longer corrupt and are willing an able to police themselves for our national security? If I were a terrorist and was serious about bringing down the US, I'd play this cat-and-mouse game until the US went bankrupt - which really may not take very long.

Great post. At this point I think bankrupcy is inevitable.

[shafnutz05]

What an embarrassment....the modern Chinese don't even bow....the normal method of greeting in China is to shake hands. And what is this shaking hands/bowing at the same time thing? I wouldn't be surprised if he worked in a curtsy.

[Hockeynut!]

Now that is funny!

[shafnutz05]

Now that is funny!

haha yeah...I wish I had a 1/4 of the wit that some of these political cartoonists have. I mean, who comes up with that?!

[Sarcastic]

If everything is exactly the same in 2012 as it is now, then yes, he's certainly beatable. But that's almost 3 years of things happening both in and out of his control. That could change to increase or decrease his election changes exponentially.

I can tell you one thing for certain...if Obama passes this healthcare bill, he is done in 2012. For starters, the "benefits" of the bill don't even begin until 2013. Yet, the much higher taxes that will be implemented to pay for this bill begin almost immediately (next year). Not only that, but the bill doesn't just cost $900 billion. Fully implemented, his healthcare bill will cost $2.5 trillion over 10 years.

Mark my words...as much as he is telling the Democrats they HAVE to pass healthcare reform, it could not be further from the truth.

I agree and I think people are beginning to understand what is happening. You and I may disagree on the concept of universal healthcare, but we can both agree that this is a bad plan. More than being a bad plan, I feel it's a blatant lie that Obama's pulling on people. I think that if the healthcare system wasn't a complete disaster yet, it could be after this bill is passed. I just don't know where all this money is going, considering people are going to pay for their own plans and probably at the same rates as before. I doubt it takes $1-2.5 trillion to provide help for the 30 or 40 million who can't afford it.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-ge ... .Overhaul/
If Democrats succeed in passing their legislation, it may leave consumers feeling a little cheated. Even after a phase-in of several years, the Democratic measures would leave 12 million or more eligible Americans uninsured. Many middle-class families who'd be required to buy coverage would still find the premiums a stretch, even with government aid. A new federal fund to provide temporary coverage for people with health problems would quickly run out of cash.

[shafnutz05]

Very true. Here's what I don't understand. The primary problem with our healthcare system today is COST. As far as quality is concerned? It's not even close....we have the best medical equipment, facilities, and personnel in the entire world, and I will argue that until I am blue in the face. Our problem is COST. What Congress should be doing is taking systematic steps to control that problem. The one thing that drives me nuts is the ban on interstate competition with insurance companies. All we hear about from Pelosi/Obama is that the insurance companies don't have to worry about competition, yet they refuse to encourage policies that would allow competition.

And then you have Harry Reid blatantly and openly purchasing Senator Mary Landrieu's vote with a $300 million provision that only applies to Louisiana. Blatant corruption out in the open. This bill stinks like a dead fish. So instead of ruining what is the best-performing medical system in the world, let's work to eliminate the high costs that keep the uninsured from being insured.

Doctors in New York City revived a man who's heart stopped for 47 MINUTES.....they pumped his heart several hundred times, cooled him down, and eventually got him back to life. He is now fine, without any lasting damage. In the kind of system this bill will create, healthcare will have to be rationed. I sincerely do not think he would still be alive today if we were in the kind of rationed care system this bill is going to create.

[Hockeynut!]

Did anyone watch 60 Minutes on Sunday? They had a really interesting story on the medical system and death, mostly dealing with terminal illnesses and the huge amount of time and money that is goes into keeping people who are terminal alive for a few more days/weeks/months even thought the quality of life for the patient is pretty wretched. A few examples are a breast cancer drug that costs medicare $50,000 and extends the average patient life 1.5 months. Another was putting a pacemaker type of device in a 93 year old man who had terminal cancer - at a cost of nearly $100,000.

The doctors said the time and money wasted on prolonging the end of life for terminal patients is through the roof and medicare can't deny these procedures/treatments unless there is a medical reason. They also said if this type of "over"-treatment were eliminated, there wouldn't be the need to ration treatment. I know it's the opinion of a small group, but thought it was interesting.

I know a lot of people are up in arms about the "death panels", but isn't it just common sense that you shouldn't be trying to keep a person alive if they're confined to a hospital bed, in and out of consciousness and waiting to die from a terminal disease?

[pittsoccer33]

Did anyone watch 60 Minutes on Sunday? They had a really interesting story on the medical system and death, mostly dealing with terminal illnesses and the huge amount of time and money that is goes into keeping people who are terminal alive for a few more days/weeks/months even thought the quality of life for the patient is pretty wretched. A few examples are a breast cancer drug that costs medicare $50,000 and extends the average patient life 1.5 months. Another was putting a pacemaker type of device in a 93 year old man who had terminal cancer - at a cost of nearly $100,000.

The doctors said the time and money wasted on prolonging the end of life for terminal patients is through the roof and medicare can't deny these procedures/treatments unless there is a medical reason. They also said if this type of "over"-treatment were eliminated, there wouldn't be the need to ration treatment. I know it's the opinion of a small group, but thought it was interesting.

I know a lot of people are up in arms about the "death panels", but isn't it just common sense that you shouldn't be trying to keep a person alive if they're confined to a hospital bed, in and out of consciousness and waiting to die from a terminal disease?

let families make that decision. my grandmother has a living will saying she does not want to remain alive that way (on life support and whatnot). that was a decision she made with my dad and my aunt. why should we leave it up to anyone else?

and i patently disagree with the idea that prolonging life is a waste. every day you have is a gift.

[Hockeynut!]

Sorry, but I've seen people dying from cancer. The end days aren't a gift. Dying is a gift. I watched my grandfather thrashing about in his hospital bed, delirious from the disease and the pain that morphine couldn't control. He died from a complication. And if he'd have been in the hospital he probably would have been treated for that and left to lie in misery for a few more days.

People aren't educated on living wills. They aren't educated in pain management and dying with dignity. Given the choice of dying at home with their family and in relative sound mind or dying in a hospital bed hooked up to machines with IVs and ports and aides cleaning you because you've become incontinent and unable to eat or speak... If people knew they didn't have to do that, I think most would opt for the truly humane death.

[HomerPenguin]

What an embarrassment....the modern Chinese don't even bow....

Lucky thing he was in Japan, then.

[shafnutz05]

What an embarrassment....the modern Chinese don't even bow....

Lucky thing he was in Japan, then.

Unfortunately....



This picture was with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao....

[HomerPenguin]

What an embarrassment....the modern Chinese don't even bow....

Lucky thing he was in Japan, then.

Unfortunately....



This picture was with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao....

Good grief. This is why I hate this thread now; it's like a direct line from Drudge to FreeRepublic.com to here.

That is no more a bow than this:



and I doubt Nixon would have copped to bowing before Mao. But maybe he would have; who knows? What we do know is that apparently every lean of Obama's head is going to set wingnut heads to asploding from now until the end of time, so OK. Fare thee well. Keep pretending this nonsense matters.

[Sarcastic]

Angelina Jolie Not a Fan of Obama
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews ... a-20092411

"Angie isn't Republican, but she thinks Obama is all smoke and mirrors," the source says.

A lot of people are saying that. Smoke and mirrors. He came with this great promise of "better than Bush". I'm not sure I buy that anymore.

[Sarcastic]

A few examples are a breast cancer drug that costs medicare $50,000 and extends the average patient life 1.5 months. Another was putting a pacemaker type of device in a 93 year old man who had terminal cancer - at a cost of nearly $100,000.

See, this is the problem. It's not that there are some uninsured (who already get assistance anyway through programs such as Charity Care). It's the cost. Who makes up these prices? People can't afford to pay their medical bills, and those are the ones with insurance. Honestly, I think that majority of people who argue against universal healthcare / single payer haven't really had to deal with serious health issues requiring they actually use whatever crappy insurance plan they have from their job. Obama himself told a story about his mother fighting with her insurance company while on her dying bed. To force people to sign up with these crooks is a big finger to the American public. But anyway, back to prices. $50K, you say. $100K. How do they come up with these? You get some x-rays, a few thousand dollars. To take pictures. It should cost like $20 for electricity. Make it $120 to pay the guy taking the pictures. Visit the emergency room for a little cut, over $1,000 just so they could sign you in and the doc could put a band aid on it. Spend a week at a hospital, no procedures, over $10,000.

I still don't understand why if you do not have insurance, the cost of whatever you had done will be 3 to 4 times bigger. Someone here explained to me once that the insurer will negotiate a better price, but for what? Why can't we just have the lower price for everybody, if the hospital is apparently OK with the lower payment. It's the system. I think they're all in on it. The hospitals, the pharmaceuticals, the insurers, and of course the government for allowing this raping of people to happen.

Someone please tell me why they can manufacture and sell the same exact medication for 5 cents in Cuba, that costs us $120 in the US.

[doublem]

and i patently disagree with the idea that prolonging life is a waste. every day you have is a gift.

Well that depends, doesn't it? Every day isn't a gift to a person that doesn't have to suffer with pain and a incurable disease. For some people sure life is a gift for others it's a nightmare. It should be left up to them on how they want to live it or if at all.

[Corvidae]

Angelina Jolie Not a Fan of Obama
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews ... a-20092411

"Angie isn't Republican, but she thinks Obama is all smoke and mirrors," the source says.

A lot of people are saying that. Smoke and mirrors. He came with this great promise of "better than Bush". I'm not sure I buy that anymore.

He is "better than Bush," but so far that's about it... and that's not good enough. I'm still mostly "wait and see" with him because at very least he hasn't made anything worse yet. He lifted the ban on embryonic stem cell research and I'm very happy with that.

As for Angelina, I hate celebrities' political views. You can't always blame them because sometimes they just say something and the press goes wild with it, but in general they need to shut the **** up and stick to reading from scripts. I will say though that for a Hollywood actress, it's going against the curve to be against Obama.

[Sarcastic]

Angelina Jolie Not a Fan of Obama
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews ... a-20092411

"Angie isn't Republican, but she thinks Obama is all smoke and mirrors," the source says.

A lot of people are saying that. Smoke and mirrors. He came with this great promise of "better than Bush". I'm not sure I buy that anymore.

He is "better than Bush," but so far that's about it... and that's not good enough. I'm still mostly "wait and see" with him because at very least he hasn't made anything worse yet. He lifted the ban on embryonic stem cell research and I'm very happy with that.

As for Angelina, I hate celebrities' political views. You can't always blame them because sometimes they just say something and the press goes wild with it, but in general they need to shut the **** up and stick to reading from scripts. I will say though that for a Hollywood actress, it's going against the curve to be against Obama.

True, I agree. The only reason I mentioned Angie was because I was trying to come up with the proper name and Smoke & Mirrors is what I was looking for. I voted for him and do think he's been better in some respect but, as you said, so far it hasn't been good enough.

[bh]

let families make that decision. my grandmother has a living will saying she does not want to remain alive that way (on life support and whatnot). that was a decision she made with my dad and my aunt. why should we leave it up to anyone else?

and i patently disagree with the idea that prolonging life is a waste. every day you have is a gift.

Ok families should make that decision but they should also pay for it. Why is it the job of taxpayers to provide this care that seriously could bankrupt the nation? If someone wants to remain alive and spend their millions, hey go ahead, but to prolong someones life for a month at a large cost is not fair to society. There is a point where enough is enough. Situations like these are a reason why I feel that government shouldn't be in the health care business at all. Without tax payer funded health insurance people would be forced to think about these things and make decisions. Now nobody thinks about it and milks the system for all it's worth.

[bh]

Good grief. This is why I hate this thread now; it's like a direct line from Drudge to FreeRepublic.com to here.

and I doubt Nixon would have copped to bowing before Mao. But maybe he would have; who knows? What we do know is that apparently every lean of Obama's head is going to set wingnut heads to asploding from now until the end of time, so OK. Fare thee well. Keep pretending this nonsense matters.

QFT, and seriously without you around here HP, there is no balance at all.

[SoupOrSam]

A few examples are a breast cancer drug that costs medicare $50,000 and extends the average patient life 1.5 months. Another was putting a pacemaker type of device in a 93 year old man who had terminal cancer - at a cost of nearly $100,000.

See, this is the problem. It's not that there are some uninsured (who already get assistance anyway through programs such as Charity Care). It's the cost. Who makes up these prices? People can't afford to pay their medical bills, and those are the ones with insurance. Honestly, I think that majority of people who argue against universal healthcare / single payer haven't really had to deal with serious health issues requiring they actually use whatever crappy insurance plan they have from their job. Obama himself told a story about his mother fighting with her insurance company while on her dying bed. To force people to sign up with these crooks is a big finger to the American public. But anyway, back to prices. $50K, you say. $100K. How do they come up with these? You get some x-rays, a few thousand dollars. To take pictures. It should cost like $20 for electricity. Make it $120 to pay the guy taking the pictures. Visit the emergency room for a little cut, over $1,000 just so they could sign you in and the doc could put a band aid on it. Spend a week at a hospital, no procedures, over $10,000.

I still don't understand why if you do not have insurance, the cost of whatever you had done will be 3 to 4 times bigger. Someone here explained to me once that the insurer will negotiate a better price, but for what? Why can't we just have the lower price for everybody, if the hospital is apparently OK with the lower payment. It's the system. I think they're all in on it. The hospitals, the pharmaceuticals, the insurers, and of course the government for allowing this raping of people to happen.

Someone please tell me why they can manufacture and sell the same exact medication for 5 cents in Cuba, that costs us $120 in the US.

They sure are all in cahoots together. Universities charge a trillion dollars to students. Those students have trillions in student loans. Hospitals have to pay the doctors who will pay off their loans for 50 years but they also must pay them something a little extra and worthwhile for going to school for at least a decade. Then we have the little people who think they are Thomas Edison. This world has at least one new Thomas Edison everyday who reinvents the wheel/xray machine to include a new feature or see 1 trillionth of a millimeter better. Then we have the hospitals and private practices who are fished and told it's the new greatest thing and can be purchased only for the low cost of 4 billion dollars. The machine gets used 5000 times, so we then have to divide that enough times into 4 billion to make sure the hospital/private practice and Thomas Edison all make out with a $12,000 x-ray scan. Let's not even talk about drugs.

AS SICK AS IT SOUNDS! I would rather take this "healthcare for all" idea.... and at least turn it into "college for all." At least a majority of deserving people will get the handouts. .. .....until 5 years pass and ACORN/insert special interst crapastic group here gets Chairman of the Board.

And then the doctors turn into the professors at the universities after paying off the loans for 50 years....and now this is where they earn their big buckeroos. What a great cycle!

[pittsoccer33]

Ok families should make that decision but they should also pay for it. Why is it the job of taxpayers to provide this care that seriously could bankrupt the nation? If someone wants to remain alive and spend their millions, hey go ahead, but to prolong someones life for a month at a large cost is not fair to society. There is a point where enough is enough. Situations like these are a reason why I feel that government shouldn't be in the health care business at all. Without tax payer funded health insurance people would be forced to think about these things and make decisions. Now nobody thinks about it and milks the system for all it's worth.

I disagree with Medicare as constituted. The system IS bankrupt and it is full of waste and fraud. That is exactly what we can expect from a single payer system, except with that they will move to place taxes, penalties, and restrictions on every facet of your life (in addition to death panels).

Its a move to gain a political end, not a humanitarian one.

[Geezer]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Navy SEALS elect to face court martials over terrorists bloody lip. The expectation that U S forces should behave like choirboys exceeded absurdity long ago. Soldiers who execute or severely mistreat civilians should and have been executed. But prosecuting guys who capture a brutal terrorists for giving him a fat lip? During the years in Iraq after Saddam's surrender every US troop that has been captured has been executed by those holding them. In the most notorious incident 2 soldiers captued were ruthlessly tortured before being killed.They were emasculated with those remains shoeved in their mouths, tongues ripped out, eyes gouged out before being killed; one having his heart cut out and the other having his head sawed off. We're fighting enemies that kill each other with power drills and throw acid in little girls faces.
I've never heard one peep of complaint about the execution of captured American troops or civilians of various nationalities. But the prison "atrocities" that included a guard being prosecuted for letting a dog bark at a detainee were treated by the press as major war crimes.

[HomerPenguin]

I've never heard one peep of complaint about the execution of captured American troops or civilians of various nationalities.

Uh, what?



No, seriously, what?