LGP Political Discussion Thread

[tonysoprano]

Well, if the KKK is not that big of a problem anymore, I'll (gladly) stand corrected.

They're completely irrelevant in today's society.

[GaryRissling]

IMO, the only institutionalized racism [against minorities] that exists in in america today is in our public schools system, where we lock the most economically immobile into the worst schools, not based on merit, but on demographic.

[doublem]

In an unprecedented defeat for the Federal Reserve, an amendment to audit the multi-trillion dollar institution was approved by the House Finance Committee with an overwhelming and bipartisan 43-26 vote on Thursday afternoon despite harried last-minute lobbying from top Fed officials and the surprise opposition of Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who had previously been a supporter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 64546.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tonysoprano]

In an unprecedented defeat for the Federal Reserve, an amendment to audit the multi-trillion dollar institution was approved by the House Finance Committee with an overwhelming and bipartisan 43-26 vote on Thursday afternoon despite harried last-minute lobbying from top Fed officials and the surprise opposition of Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who had previously been a supporter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 64546.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

About time.

[shafnutz05]

Barney Frank is such a friggin joke...he rails on and on about the evil bankers, and then opposes something like this. Amazing he is reelected

[Corvidae]

Barney Frank is such a friggin joke...he rails on and on about the evil bankers, and then opposes something like this. Amazing he is reelected

I agree. I can't stand the guy, even though I loved his "dinning room table" remark.

[Sarcastic]

In an unprecedented defeat for the Federal Reserve, an amendment to audit the multi-trillion dollar institution was approved by the House Finance Committee with an overwhelming and bipartisan 43-26 vote on Thursday afternoon despite harried last-minute lobbying from top Fed officials and the surprise opposition of Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who had previously been a supporter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 64546.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I never thought I'd see the day, but this is a step in the right direction. Magnificent news.

[Sarcastic]

"Paul's opponents also placed a letter from former Fed chairmen Alan Greenspan..."

^^^ Why am I not surprised.

And what crawled up Barney's butt?

[doublem]

"Paul's opponents also placed a letter from former Fed chairmen Alan Greenspan..."

^^^ Why am I not surprised.

And what crawled up Barney's butt?

Why would anyone trust Alan Greenspan for anything at this point? What has he ever been right about?

[Sarcastic]

"Paul's opponents also placed a letter from former Fed chairmen Alan Greenspan..."

^^^ Why am I not surprised.

And what crawled up Barney's butt?

Why would anyone trust Alan Greenspan for anything at this point? What has he ever been right about?

Funniest thing was when he came to Congress, I believe, to answer questions about the collapse (that was right after he left the post), and he was asked what went wrong. He said he had no idea. OMG. This is a guy who ran the whole thing, and he couldn't explain how he could have been wrong all that time. Either he's that dumb or his policies were intentional.

[doublem]

"Paul's opponents also placed a letter from former Fed chairmen Alan Greenspan..."

^^^ Why am I not surprised.

And what crawled up Barney's butt?

Why would anyone trust Alan Greenspan for anything at this point? What has he ever been right about?

Funniest thing was when he came to Congress, I believe, to answer questions about the collapse (that was right after he left the post), and he was asked what went wrong. He said he had no idea. OMG. This is a guy who ran the whole thing, and he couldn't explain how he could have been wrong all that time. Either he's that dumb or his policies were intentional.

No, he is just really naive and believed everything he said, IMO. He really thought that self-interest was the best way to manage the economy. I think someone that believes their own BS is so much scarier than a cheater.

"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity — myself especially — are in a state of shocked disbelief.

Referring to his free-market ideology, Greenspan said: “I have found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact

[doublem]

I was reading some articles last night and found an economist named Simon Johnson. He wrote this piece in the Atlantic back in May. This is a guy at the top of the IMF talking about how the U.S. reflects a third world nation and how the oligarchy in this country have taken on third world aspects in terms of how the government will do anything to protect them, and if not broken up will cause another great depression or worse.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube][/youtube]

Nationalization would not imply permanent state ownership. The IMF’s advice would be, essentially: scale up the standard Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation process. An FDIC “intervention” is basically a government-managed bankruptcy procedure for banks. It would allow the government to wipe out bank shareholders, replace failed management, clean up the balance sheets, and then sell the banks back to the private sector. The main advantage is immediate recognition of the problem so that it can be solved before it grows worse.

This may seem like strong medicine. But in fact, while necessary, it is insufficient. The second problem the U.S. faces—the power of the oligarchy—is just as important as the immediate crisis of lending. And the advice from the IMF on this front would again be simple: break the oligarchy.

The second scenario begins more bleakly, and might end that way too. But it does provide at least some hope that we’ll be shaken out of our torpor. It goes like this: the global economy continues to deteriorate, the banking system in east-central Europe collapses, and—because eastern Europe’s banks are mostly owned by western European banks—justifiable fears of government insolvency spread throughout the Continent. Creditors take further hits and confidence falls further. The Asian economies that export manufactured goods are devastated, and the commodity producers in Latin America and Africa are not much better off. A dramatic worsening of the global environment forces the U.S. economy, already staggering, down onto both knees. The baseline growth rates used in the administration’s current budget are increasingly seen as unrealistic, and the rosy “stress scenario” that the U.S. Treasury is currently using to evaluate banks’ balance sheets becomes a source of great embarrassment.

Under this kind of pressure, and faced with the prospect of a national and global collapse, minds may become more concentrated.

[Geezer]

"Paul's opponents also placed a letter from former Fed chairmen Alan Greenspan..."

^^^ Why am I not surprised.

And what crawled up Barney's butt?

No shortage of possibilities.

[Guinness]

No, he is just really naive and believed everything he said, IMO. He really thought that self-interest was the best way to manage the economy. I think someone that believes their own BS is so much scarier than a cheater.

"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity — myself especially — are in a state of shocked disbelief.

Referring to his free-market ideology, Greenspan said: “I have found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact

This is utter and complete nonsense... no, in fact it is a bold faced lie on Greenspan's behalf. He very well knows that he, by DEFINITION, was not administering a free market.

For a complete refutation of this bunk, I urge you all to read END THE FED.

For Greenspan to have ostensibly orchestrated this collapse and then turn around and blame it on the free market, I have to wonder how exactly he's going to benefit from this disaster.

[Guinness]

Again, why are we consulting these command economy, Keynesian economists? The people we SHOULD be listening to are the ONES who've been right, from the very start.

[shafnutz05]

I did always think it was funny how Alan Greenspan is made out to be this completely unflappable and all-knowing beacon of economic knowledge. It seems like every other week, I read "Greenspan warns that..." or "Greenspan predicts that...".

[dagny]

In an unprecedented defeat for the Federal Reserve, an amendment to audit the multi-trillion dollar institution was approved by the House Finance Committee with an overwhelming and bipartisan 43-26 vote on Thursday afternoon despite harried last-minute lobbying from top Fed officials and the surprise opposition of Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who had previously been a supporter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 64546.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who will be in charge of auditing it?

[doublem]

No, he is just really naive and believed everything he said, IMO. He really thought that self-interest was the best way to manage the economy. I think someone that believes their own BS is so much scarier than a cheater.

"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity — myself especially — are in a state of shocked disbelief.

Referring to his free-market ideology, Greenspan said: “I have found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact

This is utter and complete nonsense... no, in fact it is a bold faced lie on Greenspan's behalf. He very well knows that he, by DEFINITION, was not administering a free market.

For a complete refutation of this bunk, I urge you all to read END THE FED.

For Greenspan to have ostensibly orchestrated this collapse and then turn around and blame it on the free market, I have to wonder how exactly he's going to benefit from this disaster.

This is something that people that believe in the "free market" are going to have to work out becasue what your definition of "free market" seems to be different then the vast majority of people in power that support a "free market". Greenspan was a big fan of Rand so I don't know where the separation occurs, I mean I do but....

[doublem]

Again, why are we consulting these command economy, Keynesian economists? The people we SHOULD be listening to are the ONES who've been right, from the very start.

He wasn't consulted and that might be a big problem. He worked for the IMF. The people that are be consulted are the problem.

[Guinness]

In an unprecedented defeat for the Federal Reserve, an amendment to audit the multi-trillion dollar institution was approved by the House Finance Committee with an overwhelming and bipartisan 43-26 vote on Thursday afternoon despite harried last-minute lobbying from top Fed officials and the surprise opposition of Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who had previously been a supporter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 64546.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who will be in charge of auditing it?

I'll be stunned if 1207 makes it out of the House, let alone is passed and signed into law.

[Guinness]

This is something that people that believe in the "free market" are going to have to work out becasue what your definition of "free market" seems to be different then the vast majority of people in power that support a "free market". Greenspan was a big fan of Rand so I don't know where the separation occurs, I mean I do but....

Yes, Greenspan was a follower of Rand and a free market advocate. At some point, he either became so narcissistic that he believed he was the one great man who could actually command an economy, or he never really believed it at all because you do not set currency values and call yourself a free market advocate - that is fundamental. Setting the value of money essentially manipulates the entire market.

Again, read End the Fed. I'll try to find the story Paul relates regarding a conversation he had with Greenspan about his supposed free market ideology when he was Chairman of the Fed...

[Geezer]

Latest Harry Reid Healthcare hijinx; Reid has a $100 million gift to Louisiana for medicare that applies only to that state. This is to buy Sen Landreau's heathcare vote. If this monstrosity is going to pass ,our 2 Dem senators could at least get in on the on the cash giveaway.Why vote for free if you can bring home the bacon. The funniest quote was Landrau's spokesman who said "she had been working on this a long time". Landreau also said "there's some really excellent thing's in this bill".
Hey, $100 mil here, $100 mil there; pretty soon they'll get to serious money.

[Guinness]

This is something that people that believe in the "free market" are going to have to work out becasue what your definition of "free market" seems to be different then the vast majority of people in power that support a "free market". Greenspan was a big fan of Rand so I don't know where the separation occurs, I mean I do but....

Yes, Greenspan was a follower of Rand and a free market advocate. At some point, he either became so narcissistic that he believed he was the one great man who could actually command an economy, or he never really believed it at all because you do not set currency values and call yourself a free market advocate - that is fundamental. Setting the value of money essentially manipulates the entire market.

Again, read End the Fed. I'll try to find the story Paul relates regarding a conversation he had with Greenspan about his supposed free market ideology when he was Chairman of the Fed...

Alan Greenspan epitomizes the control of the money supply by government. But is this not at first sight surprising? Greenspan was a follower of Ayn Rand and shared her devotion to laissez-faire capitalism. In an essay written for the Objectivist newsletter, reprinted in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, Greenspan offered a strong defense of the gold standard. The vital advantage of the gold standard, Greenspan explained, is that it prevents the government from manipulating the money supply:

In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation.… The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. (p. 81)

Greenspan, amazingly, told Dr. Paul "that he had just recently reread it [the article] and wouldn't change a word of it." (p. 86). How could Greenspan say this, while presiding over a system that embodies the government control of money that his article repudiated? Greenspan thought that he could conduct the financial system in the same way as the gold standard would operate.

I [Greenspan] think that you will find … that the most effective central banks in this fiat money period tend to be successful largely because we tend to replicate that which would have probably have occurred under a commodity standard in general. (p. 88)

In other words, we need to remove government from the money supply, unless, of course, I and people like me are in control. Greenspan's position brings to mind a Jewish tradition about King Solomon; he thought that the restrictions imposed in Deuteronomy (17: 16–17) on kings about wives and horses did not apply to him.

From a review of End the Fed: http://mises.org/daily/3718

Edit for clarification: Greenspan wrote the article in question decades before he assumed the chairmanship.

[Guinness]

http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/la ... final.html

Pretty interesting... er, bleak... animation.

[HomerPenguin]

Yes, Greenspan was a follower of Rand and a free market advocate. At some point, he either became so narcissistic that he believed he was the one great man who could actually command an economy,

Rand doesn't have much to offer that isn't narcissistic, so whether or not that turned out to be his big problem, Greenspan like any Rand devotee was certainly madly in love with himself.