LGP Political Discussion Thread

[doublem]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,571614,00.html
What business does the ACLU have involving any activities not done on American soil? Other than their pathological hatred of the CIA, the U.S. military and any efforts to fight terrorists I see no basis for their involvement of overseas activities other than their self-appointed role of Lords abd High Protectors of all left wing agendas.

You really want to trust the CIA to clean its own house? They tortured people? The CIA should be disbanded for all the illegal things it has done in its history. Justice is justice to me, doesn't matter who is doing it.

[Sarcastic]

So what does everyone think of this? I mean, I don't want to see our guys in trouble, but come on. You can't take a guy off the street and send him off for torture. Well, I guess you can, just not in Italy.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-wo ... CIA.Trial/

MILAN — An Italian judge found 23 Americans and two Italians guilty Wednesday in the kidnapping of an Egyptian terror suspect, delivering the first legal convictions anywhere in the world against people involved in the CIA's extraordinary renditions program.

[doublem]

Good move.

[bh]

So what does everyone think of this? I mean, I don't want to see our guys in trouble, but come on. You can't take a guy off the street and send him off for torture. Well, I guess you can, just not in Italy.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-wo ... CIA.Trial/

MILAN — An Italian judge found 23 Americans and two Italians guilty Wednesday in the kidnapping of an Egyptian terror suspect, delivering the first legal convictions anywhere in the world against people involved in the CIA's extraordinary renditions program.

It's funny that the supposed defender of all things liberal and free is the one committing these crimes. The hypocrisy is killing me.

[Gaucho]

Good move.

Absolutely.

[Guinness]

If you think the First Amendment of the Constitution explicitly grants you the right to free speech, you are completely wrong.



Read the rest HERE.

[Guinness]

Hyperbole much? Large populations of impoverished oldsters would be roaming the streets, dying in snow drifts? Living and dying miserable lives because the Benefactor isn't there to provide for them... the last great hope for mankind is the federal government, then?

Not mankind, poor seniors. I find it fascinating that the utopian vision doesn't allow for actually looking at actual societal conditions that actually existed in the period before enaction of these government programs that are so universally rotten. It's not hyperbole; around half of seniors lived in poverty before OASDI as compared with something around 10% today, and that reduction in the number of poor folks impacts the number of consumers available to generate economic activity. I guess empiricism means nothing when we're imagining the perfect society.

What of the collectivist utopia, then? All good things come from the state. Surely, if only the federal government can take care of our aging population, wouldn't the state also be better at providing all things to all people?

I'm able to envision a set of differences between the retired elderly and the younger working population such that the fact that government can help the former does not necessarily make it the savior for the latter. Aren't you?

Again, the problem can only be solved by the Federal government

So who is going to solve it? Don't argue theory; tell me who would step in to repair our crumbling national infrastructure if it's not going to be the government, and if you would please include an answer to the question of why they aren't already getting involved.

I was basically (and clumsily) trying to relate Bastiat's Broken Glass Fallacy while we were having this discussion.

[doublem]

Where's HP been? Did he stop posting in threads like this again?

[doublem]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/opini ... .html?_r=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How dare someone be critical of America and point out of those fact things? Must be some dirty commie.

[Guinness]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/opini ... .html?_r=1

How dare someone be critical of America and point out of those fact things? Must be some dirty commie.

Is this smug self-assuredness a new thing, or am I just catching on to it now?

[doublem]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/opini ... .html?_r=1

How dare someone be critical of America and point out of those fact things? Must be some dirty commie.

Is this smug self-assuredness a new thing, or am I just catching on to it now?

No, it is making a reference to another topic about being critical of America, but no I don't think that's new. At least from what people tell me.

[Guinness]

No, it is making a reference to another topic about being critical of America, but no I don't think that's new. At least from what people tell me.

Assuming those facts are not in dispute, and also assuming that the health care sector of our economy actually is free ( ), does it automatically follow that public, centrally administered health care is just?

What is it about government that turns all these greedy power hungry people (that is to say, all of us), into altruistic servants of the people? How ever do they resist the socially-sanctioned powers inherent in government, one wonders?

[DelPen]

Good move.

Absolutely.

Yup, you just can't go into a country that you have no quirell with and take people off the street. If this guy was a threat then contact the Italians.

But the stuff after they grabbed him?

[doublem]

No, it is making a reference to another topic about being critical of America, but no I don't think that's new. At least from what people tell me.

Assuming those facts are not in dispute, and also assuming that the health care sector of our economy actually is free ( ), does it automatically follow that public, centrally administered health care is just?

What is it about government that turns all these greedy power hungry people (that is to say, all of us), into altruistic servants of the people? How ever do they resist the socially-sanctioned powers inherent in government, one wonders?

Gov't doesn't make profit? Make sure the people that you elect aren't greedy, I don't know, but government doesn't try to make profit. Plus, in government you have room for idealism and other social issues, besides just profit, which is what business does. Government health care is no more unjust than profit driven health care. I find it unjust that people get kicked off private health for pre- existing conditions. If you say ones immoral, the other is as well.

[Guinness]

No, it is making a reference to another topic about being critical of America, but no I don't think that's new. At least from what people tell me.

Assuming those facts are not in dispute, and also assuming that the health care sector of our economy actually is free ( ), does it automatically follow that public, centrally administered health care is just?

What is it about government that turns all these greedy power hungry people (that is to say, all of us), into altruistic servants of the people? How ever do they resist the socially-sanctioned powers inherent in government, one wonders?

Gov't doesn't make profit? Make sure the people that you elect aren't greedy, I don't know, but government doesn't try to make profit. Plus, in government you have room for idealism and other social issues, besides just profit, which is what business does. Government health care is no more unjust than profit driven health care. I find it unjust that people get kicked off private health for pre- existing conditions. If you say ones immoral, the other is as well.

Government may not make a "profit", but people most certainly do profit from it.

Government is more than just the people we elect. And beyond that, as the saying goes - power corrupts those seemingly ungreedy folks. Now, I'm not casting the whole lot... there are good folks out there, just as there are anywhere else. But folks who work in government are no better than the rest of us... they just have access to the socially-sanctioned power and force of the state. In fact, one might assume that it's the power itself they're drawn to.

Idealism and good works are the domain only of government now? You sure you don't want to re-think that? Because I can think of several just off hand...

[doublem]

Yea, government attracts people that want power, like business, being a celebrity and a bunch of other things. I'm talking about private sector health care vs government, or business goals vs government. Business is in the business of making money that is what they do, but government can or should be about other things, of course idealism or good works can be apart of anything.

[DelPen]

But Biden is right, the stimulus is working

[shafnutz05]

I REALLY like that graph...that is simple, and to the point. I don't understand how when the stimulus was such an obvious failure, people trust Obama's $1.2 trillion to work the way it's supposed to. That is suspending disbelief, if you ask me. Kinda like watching 24.

[DelPen]

This is related to the Ft. Hood shooting but I think this belongs here. Did anyone see Obama's first response to this tragedy? He was speaking for something with the Deprtament of the Interior when this story broke. So when he finally gets to the podium he does the following things first:

1) Thanks the Spet of the Interior for organizing such a great conference
2) Thanks his cabinet and czars who participated
3) gives a "shout-out" to Dr. Joe medicine Crow while having a smirk on his face and waves to him while the press claps
4) thanks everyone for an extremely productive conference
5) Vows whatever useless crap they did was just the begining of a process
6) issues raised there are a top priority to him and his people

He wanted to make broader remarks but after 2:00 he finally gets to the shooting. This was a big deal considering the implications of terrorism and the fact this was an army officer murdering fellow soldiers. This should have trumped his remarks about whatever conference he was speaking to. And giving a shout-out when there were soldiers dead was completely unprofessional. Either Obama doesn't care about this tragedym which knowing his attitudes about the military could be true, or he can't do anything off the cuff, which is also true. This administration is a complete joke.

[Guinness]

I thought his behavior was extremely disrespectful. He wouldn't have had to fawn over our imperial military or rouse terrorism fears in order to express, as the commander in chief, his personal and his administrations sorrow and sympathy for those killed, wounded or involved in a mass murder, and their families.

[Guinness]

Yea, government attracts people that want power, like business, being a celebrity and a bunch of other things. I'm talking about private sector health care vs government, or business goals vs government. Business is in the business of making money that is what they do, but government can or should be about other things, of course idealism or good works can be apart of anything.

Why do you assume that a free health care market isn't any good? We don't have one now.

The facts about people do not change from government program to government program. Neither does the morality of the programs themselves.

[Geezer]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11 ... ested-pot/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Barney at his boyfriend's house during his latest bong bust. Barney didn't know he was a horticulturist even though he was also with his main squeeze when he was busted 2 years ago for the same thing.

[npv708]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11 ... ested-pot/
Barney at his boyfriend's house during his latest bong bust. Barney didn't know he was a horticulturist even though he was also with his main squeeze when he was busted 2 years ago for the same thing.

There are worst things in this world then pot.



http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Examples ... ral_values" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[doublem]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11 ... ested-pot/
Barney at his boyfriend's house during his latest bong bust. Barney didn't know he was a horticulturist even though he was also with his main squeeze when he was busted 2 years ago for the same thing.

Who cares?

[doublem]

Yea, government attracts people that want power, like business, being a celebrity and a bunch of other things. I'm talking about private sector health care vs government, or business goals vs government. Business is in the business of making money that is what they do, but government can or should be about other things, of course idealism or good works can be apart of anything.

Why do you assume that a free health care market isn't any good? We don't have one now.

The facts about people do not change from government program to government program. Neither does the morality of the programs themselves.

I've posted many times why I think it wouldn't work. I'm not going to do it again. You keep assuming your morality is more important than others.( Taxs= immoral). Yet, you don't have anything to say when 45k people die a year becasue they can't get health care or over a million go bankrupt. I find being taxed 3% more not in the same league as death.