Guinness wrote:They're equally bad. One teaches kids to view people based upon some condition without regard to their individual merit, and the other teaches kids to worship someone they don't even know, but who will most likely end up doing great damage to them.
Because there's nothing like spending more time in a crap-hole of an education system.
Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.
That is quite possibly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard from a President, or from anyone in power for that matter. That's essentially saying, "well we need to do this because other people are doing it." And the kicker is...it's not even true for several countries that outdo the United States in test scores. They have longer school days, but less hours than the United States.
This is the perfect example of applying a bandaid to a wound that requires surgery. Instead of revamping the educational system, which has proven to be a complete and utter failure...they'd rather patch it. Our educational system is leeching the creativity from kids and replacing it with a memorization method that has little to no beneficial qualities, and only hastens the decline of intelligence in this country. But hey, let's up the hours our kids have to go through this. Brilliant!
Because there's nothing like spending more time in a crap-hole of an education system.
Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.
That is quite possibly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard from a President, or from anyone in power for that matter. That's essentially saying, "well we need to do this because other people are doing it." And the kicker is...it's not even true for several countries that outdo the United States in test scores. They have longer school days, but less hours than the United States.
This is the perfect example of applying a bandaid to a wound that requires surgery. Instead of revamping the educational system, which has proven to be a complete and utter failure...they'd rather patch it. Our educational system is leeching the creativity from kids and replacing it with a memorization method that has little to no beneficial qualities, and only hastens the decline of intelligence in this country. But hey, let's up the hours our kids have to go through this. Brilliant!
The system is broken. We need to get better use out of the time we have now. I still don't understand why kids have to start school at 7 am. Maybe kids should go to school less; maybe it won't feel like they are being forced into prison. The problem goes a lot deeper IMO than just more hours.
Easton wrote:Our educational system is leeching the creativity from kids and replacing it with a memorization method that has little to no beneficial qualities, and only hastens the decline of intelligence in this country.
In some cases I'd say the opposite is true. Math curricula has gone so far away from traditional rote that kids don't even get basic number facts anymore, so trying to build anything on top of that is useless.
However, like you say, straight memorization isn't really a good way of learning in other areas. From my experience I've seen a lot of teachers work towards more creative approaches. The better teachers are certainly doing this. I would say that recalling facts (the most basic form of thinking) is being de-emphasized and that kids are being asked to analyze and interpret a lot more.
Don't know how it is in the US, but the problem with the educational system in Germany is the lack of teachers, not how much time the kids spend in school. You can spend your whole day in school, but as long as you have to share a classroom with 30+ other kids, you learning will not be effective.
Gaucho wrote:Don't know how it is in the US, but the problem with the educational system in Germany is the lack of teachers, not how much time the kids spend in school. You can spend your whole day in school, but as long as you have to share a classroom with 30+ other kids, you learning will not be effective.
Sorry to escape on a brief tangent here, but that sounds like a pretty nice metaphor for a "free healthcare for all" system. Sure, you can give everyone free healthcare. But when 1,500 patients are all sharing one doctor, your quality of care will not be effective.
I was searching on youtube and found this. This is disgusting and shocking. And here I thought we were living in the 21st century. This needs to be an issue in the health care debate, but sadly it won't. These people need help, not jail time.
And we move from the racial card to the worse... Do you understand the anger behind the things you are trying to enact Patrick? This is lame in my opinion to try to skew the views of the majority of the public on this issue.
doublem wrote:I was searching on youtube and found this. This is disgusting and shocking. And here I thought we were living in the 21st century. This needs to be an issue in the health care debate, but sadly it won't. These people need help, not jail time.
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Alot of people need help doublem, you can't legislate help for them all... For everyone behind bars there is likely 4 that have never committed a crime....
Gaucho wrote:Don't know how it is in the US, but the problem with the educational system in Germany is the lack of teachers, not how much time the kids spend in school. You can spend your whole day in school, but as long as you have to share a classroom with 30+ other kids, you learning will not be effective.
Time spent in school has no effect on knowledged gain, I believe that is what you are saying and agree. Dictating like we have done, even previous to this administration, what you are taught has done alot more damage imo. How about teaching real skills and not alot of feel good subjects, so we promote free thought instead of attempting to control it.
Last edited by Ron` on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
doublem wrote:I was searching on youtube and found this. This is disgusting and shocking. And here I thought we were living in the 21st century. This needs to be an issue in the health care debate, but sadly it won't. These people need help, not jail time.
[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]
Alot of people need help doublem, you can't legislate help for them all... For everyone behind bars there is likely 4 that have never committed a crime....
These people have severe mental illness. Actaully, you can legislate help for them, which states did, but they were closed down becasue of budget reasons. They need to be in hospitals, not in prisons with harden criminals. People would be outraged if this was happening to cancer patients.
doublem wrote:I was searching on youtube and found this. This is disgusting and shocking. And here I thought we were living in the 21st century. This needs to be an issue in the health care debate, but sadly it won't. These people need help, not jail time.
Alot of people need help doublem, you can't legislate help for them all... For everyone behind bars there is likely 4 that have never committed a crime....
These people have severe mental illness. Actaully, you can legislate help for them, which states did, but they were closed down becasue of budget reasons. They need to be in hospitals, not in prisons with harden criminals. People would be outraged if this was happening to cancer patients.
You live a gifted life obviously, if you don't see the same problems in the society that surrounds you. These people committed a crime against society, they aren't right just like the others that still walk the streets. But you seem to believe this is some kind of social injustice.... The social injustice is that we don't prevent them from ever committing the crime that put them under control of the system... period...
Did you watch the video? You don't know what my life is like. I know dealing with psychotic breakdowns all day is the same as someone that rapes or murders someone. Do you know anything about mental illness? They aren't evil people, just sick, like someone suffering from cancer. From the video about half of the prison population is made up of people that have mental illness. Yea, I find it an injustice for society to throw away it's sick people, like it's the middle ages.
Did you read what I wrote.... Obviously not.... The crime is we don't do anything to help the majority before they actually do something like this and become part of the system.... What could ever make you think that somehow, now that they have self identified themselves as needing help, that they will get it. Let alone turn them loose again....
Ron` wrote:Did you read what I wrote.... Obviously not.... The crime is we don't do anything to help the majority before they actually do something like this and become part of the system.... What could ever make you think that somehow, now that they have self identified themselves as needing help, that they will get it. Let alone turn them loose again....
When hospitals are being shut down it makes it difficult. Living in a mental hospital isn't turning someone loose, they are being treated. I don't what you mean by self- identified since a lot of people with mental illness don't even think they have a problem, or don't understand what is happening to them. That is why they need trained professionals and not prison guards helping them.
Ron` wrote:Did you read what I wrote.... Obviously not.... The crime is we don't do anything to help the majority before they actually do something like this and become part of the system.... What could ever make you think that somehow, now that they have self identified themselves as needing help, that they will get it. Let alone turn them loose again....
When hospitals are being shut down it makes it difficult. Living in a mental hospital isn't turning someone loose, they are being treated. I don't what you mean by self- identified since a lot of people with mental illness don't even think they have a problem, or don't understand what is happening to them. That is why they need trained professionals and not prison guards helping them.
They are self identified by the crimes they committed to be jailed.... society turns a blind eye to them up to that point and provides no care. They are getting about as much care in jail as they would get under todays policies and even private insurance plans which mostly completely avoid mental illness coverage.
Ron` wrote:Did you read what I wrote.... Obviously not.... The crime is we don't do anything to help the majority before they actually do something like this and become part of the system.... What could ever make you think that somehow, now that they have self identified themselves as needing help, that they will get it. Let alone turn them loose again....
When hospitals are being shut down it makes it difficult. Living in a mental hospital isn't turning someone loose, they are being treated. I don't what you mean by self- identified since a lot of people with mental illness don't even think they have a problem, or don't understand what is happening to them. That is why they need trained professionals and not prison guards helping them.
They are self identified by the crimes they committed to be jailed.... society turns a blind eye to them up to that point and provides no care. They are getting about as much care in jail as they would get under todays policies and even private insurance plans which mostly completely avoid mental illness coverage.
And that is why I am saying that it is wrong. Are we disagreeing on something here?
I just thought of something this morning....the fact that the Dow went over 10,000 is plastered all over the front pages this morning, trying to tout the economic genius of the president and his cabinet. At the same time, home foreclosures just hit an all-time high, and unemployment is about to surge back over 10%.
So here is my question. I know the NABE said that the recession is "over". I would argue that the only reason the Dow is up is due to the billions upon billions of dollars that were thrown at Wall Street. A lot of people predicted there would be a rise in the stock market after the stimulus (even conservatives), since it's almost impossible to not expect a rise after you inject that much capitaltaxpayer money into the market. The true indicators of a genuine recovery are not there....jobs are still being slashed at a rate of several hundred thousand a month. Consumer confidence is low. How can you honestly say the recession is over when the most conservative estimates have unemployment continuing to rise for numerous months? That seems a little disingenuous to me.
It kind of depends on how you define "recession," no? I mean, if its being used as a term of art and there are specific, finite indicators that make a particular situation qualify as a "recession" and those indicators steady, then from a technical standpoint, the recession is "over." If you are thinking of it colloquially, though, then it might seem like its hasty to state that the recession is over.
