LGP Political Discussion Thread

[Ron`]

And I am proud to say that the United States has done more to promote clean energy and reduce carbon pollution in the last eight months than at any other time in our history.

Come on man, really? In what way is this even close to being true? Can anyone point to even one single inovation or policy enacted that has done aything close to doing what he is claiming? How many times is he going to be allowed say whatever pops into his head and when it's as absurd as this, when is the media going to call him on it?

Anyone want to argue that the invention of the catalytic converter has done the most to curtail carbon pollution in the histry of the world all the way back in 1975? Maybe Barry was off in a madrasa in Indonesia where they didn't have a lot of cars so maybe he missed this.

Coming from a man that has essentially killed the nuclear industry since entering office..... That's incredible.....

[Ron`]

The minimum wage is a highly antiquated irrelavent discussion. Very very few individuals live off of the minimum wage, and the bulk of individuals working on the minimum wage are high schoolers and elderly individuals looking to keep busy, or being forced to go out and "do something" by their parents. So this crap about letting people sell themselves into "slave labor" is a joke, except for the minute percentage of individuals that actually try to live off of a minimum wage salary.

No - the only reason, truly, that there is a minimum wage, is because union contracts are tied to that figure - and when the minimum wage goes up, so does their highly inflated union salary.

Wow tony, I am surprised you feel that way. Minimum wage has very little with union wages.... It was another feel good program instituted and carried forward through the years by the politico's. It has little bearing on real job wages, purely keeps pocket money in the teen employee market.

[Ron`]

Damn the unions! If it weren't for them we could be living in a nineteenth century UTOPIA!

If it were the 19th century, at least there'd be call to have unions, when company's truly took advantage of their employees. With round the clock 24 hour news and the internet, any true abuse of employees would be exposed in common day American within a half hour of it actually going down.

Nope. Nowadays, unions acts as nothing more than legalized extortion. You needn't look any further than the dozens of employees that were paid $32/ hr to sit and play spades in the GM plants to recognize that. It's a joke.

So yes - damn the unions.

You call out one example, I can call out alot more examples of where unions are the only reason executive greed isn't over riding fair wages for a skill ....Most of the failures of the last decade were based on pure greed by executives etc... not greed by the employees. At some point you milk the system so much for profit, you kill it. That's true on both ends of the equation. Selling a bag of goods to wallstreet is done at the executive level and they readily did it for the last decade. While they hid the real indicators to pad their bonuses.....

[Ron`]

So unions are all made up of unskilled laborers?

I definitely made a generalization. The NFLPA certainly isn't made up of unskilled laborers.

Neither are people that maintain or operate nuclear power plants....

[Ron`]

They're an antiquated abrasive cash grab, and nothing more.

Exactly! If it weren't for unions, we could go back to the glorious days when only ownership and management made abrasive cash grabs! Why, as recently as 1965 CEOs made an average of 24 times the salary of an average worker. By 2005, thanks to the pernicious money-grabbing power of our union overlords, that figure had been cut to a mere 262 times what an average worker makes! ARGH! It makes me so MAD!

Exactly the point, good one Homer... Conditioning of the public via the media and politico's has totally altered reality on most unions.....

[tonysoprano]

Conditioning the public via the media? Are you serious Ron? The media slurps up unions the way most on this board slurp up Jordan Staal. Good grief.

[Ron`]

Conditioning the public via the media? Are you serious Ron? The media slurps up unions the way most on this board slurp up Jordan Staal. Good grief.

What channel are you watching? Most media feeds prey on what draws shock type attention, ie auto workers etc. They take a failing business and try to make it seem it's the workers fault, which draws viewers who are struggling with the current economic reality...

Did you ever notice they never do any articles about government benefits or contracts... that's the biggest union there is and very well compensated. Compensated off the backs of the rest of the working taxpaying citizens, enacted by the politico's who are sponsored by the same business executives that squeeze every drop they can into their short term employment packages out of companies.

They largely are all carpet baggers, moving from company to company every 4-5 years. Taking everything can they from the place, like a hobo staying in a hotel. Accruing retirement packages that are beyond belief in mere years....

[GaryRissling]

http://mises.org/story/3722" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[quote/]As even New York Times movie reviewer Vincent Canby recognized in his Norma Rae review back in 1979, the reason Crystal Lee Sutton had a $2.65 per hour job (over $10.50 in today's dollars) in the textile industry was because "the highly publicized industrial boom in the post-World War II South was largely the result of the cheaper (nonunion) wages that lured manufactures away from the Northeast and mid-Atlantic states."
And so it is today as nonunion car companies Toyota, Hyundai, and Kia manufacture products in the south, while union-wage crippled General Motors and Chrysler only survive by government bailout in Detroit. The motor city led all metropolitan areas of more than one million in population with an unemployment rate of 17.7 percent in July.

But if big labor and their friends in big government have their way, in the name of Norma Rae, the Crystal Lee Suttons of the world will be unemployed.
[/quote]

[doublem]

No one has ever succeeded in the effort to demonstrate that unionism could improve the conditions and raise the standard of living of all those eager to earn wages.

What? Unions didn't help with ending child labor and a national eight hour day? Come on, Unions have problems, but we can't go back and time, and pretend they did nothing to help the cause of workers.

[Ron`]

Here's part of the real problem... People spend more than they earn and others prey on their weakness....

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/busin ... ml?rssfeed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Living in a credit slash debt status has risks... and our country politically continues to support being in that risk class.

[Ron`]

http://mises.org/story/3722

[quote/]

As even New York Times movie reviewer Vincent Canby recognized in his Norma Rae review back in 1979, the reason Crystal Lee Sutton had a $2.65 per hour job (over $10.50 in today's dollars) in the textile industry was because "the highly publicized industrial boom in the post-World War II South was largely the result of the cheaper (nonunion) wages that lured manufactures away from the Northeast and mid-Atlantic states."
And so it is today as nonunion car companies Toyota, Hyundai, and Kia manufacture products in the south, while union-wage crippled General Motors and Chrysler only survive by government bailout in Detroit. The motor city led all metropolitan areas of more than one million in population with an unemployment rate of 17.7 percent in July.

But if big labor and their friends in big government have their way, in the name of Norma Rae, the Crystal Lee Suttons of the world will be unemployed.

[/quote]Gary you have some good points, but the facts are things that point back to government control.... We are no longer dealing with people slaved to a cotton gin, I fully agree. Heck for years we haven't produced a product that was exportable sans air planes or missiles or missile defense.... or dead american sons pushing an agenda.....

The american public has to rise up and awaken to the fact that we do nothing that is exportable, we produce little to nothing that is exportable, and we should just seek why that is... Quit blaming others, it's our own dang fault...

Yet we as a nation are considering making improvements to this service based economy by giving carte blanche immunity to all that have bypassed the immigration laws and are already in the country.... This is crazy by any stretch of the imagination.

[Guinness]

Here's part of the real problem... People spend more than they earn and others prey on their weakness....

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/busin ... ml?rssfeed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Living in a credit slash debt status has risks... and our country politically continues to support being in that risk class.

It's not so much that the government supports the debt culture as that it creates it and encourages it. Subtle difference, but relevant - It's the difference between being an enabler and a dealer.

And the dealer is the Federal Reserve. End the Fed.

[Ron`]

Here's part of the real problem... People spend more than they earn and others prey on their weakness....

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/busin ... ml?rssfeed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Living in a credit slash debt status has risks... and our country politically continues to support being in that risk class.

It's not so much that the government supports the debt culture as that it creates it and encourages it. Subtle difference, but relevant - It's the difference between being an enabler and a dealer.

And the dealer is the Federal Reserve. End the Fed.

Ah recognizing the real problem is part of the key to finding the fault and fixing it... Thanks Guinness for another opinion that supports the cause.... The american people are really smart enough to figure this out, they just have to become engaged....

[Guinness]

Ah recognizing the real problem is part of the key to finding the fault and fixing it... Thanks Guinness for another opinion that supports the cause.... The american people are really smart enough to figure this out, they just have to become engaged....

The American people need to come to terms with the fact that their standard of living is a mirage, and that the only way they've been able to sustain it, and all the government programs that assuage their guilt (setting aside the morality), is by means of the Federal Reserve's printing press.

I find it unlikely that they ever come to that realization.

[Ron`]

Ah recognizing the real problem is part of the key to finding the fault and fixing it... Thanks Guinness for another opinion that supports the cause.... The american people are really smart enough to figure this out, they just have to become engaged....

The American people need to come to terms with the fact that their standard of living is a mirage, and that the only way they've been able to sustain it, and all the government programs that assuage their guilt (setting aside the morality), is by means of the Federal Reserve's printing press.

I find it unlikely that they ever come to that realization.

I agree completely. The reserve's printing process and the legislative branch's binge spending sprees fuels the the mirage... fire/problem... even more... The world investment markets sense it finally, it's coming to an end the mirage..

They just toss enough scraps to those hurting most to make what they pass seem reasonable.... Despite the true meaning and profit hidden behind what they publically state or really are proposing.....

[PensFanInDC]

[youtube][/youtube]

The song quotes directly from the spiritual "Jesus Loves the Little Children," though Jesus' name is replaced with Obama's: "He said red, yellow, black or white/All are equal in his sight. Barack Hussein Obama."

Among other lyrics, touting a fair-pay bill Obama signed in January: "He said we must be clear today/Equal work means equal pay."

[shafnutz05]

I saw this Youtube....absolutely sickening. To see children being indoctrinated like that is utterly ridiculous. Forget enjoying your childhood kiddos...you need to be recruited into Obama's Youth Citizen Army. Does Mommy and Daddy say mean things about Uncle Barack? Just press "123" on your phone and you can talk to a real grownup! And don't forget to give us your parent's names so we can plan something fun!!

[Guinness]

Well that was nauseating. So much for lunch today.

[GaryRissling]

2
Gary you have some good points, but the facts are things that point back to government control.... We are no longer dealing with people slaved to a cotton gin, I fully agree. Heck for years we haven't produced a product that was exportable sans air planes or missiles or missile defense.... or dead american sons pushing an agenda.....

The american public has to rise up and awaken to the fact that we do nothing that is exportable, we produce little to nothing that is exportable, and we should just seek why that is... Quit blaming others, it's our own dang fault...

Yet we as a nation are considering making improvements to this service based economy by giving carte blanche immunity to all that have bypassed the immigration laws and are already in the country.... This is crazy by any stretch of the imagination.

The simple reality regarding manufacturing is we cannot have a minimum wage and unionized labor and compete for manufacturing jobs with nations who do not. It is a smaller world now than it ever has been, and outsourcing is a reasonable response to an obtrusive labor market.

[MWB]

I saw this Youtube....absolutely sickening. To see children being indoctrinated like that is utterly ridiculous. Forget enjoying your childhood kiddos...you need to be recruited into Obama's Youth Citizen Army. Does Mommy and Daddy say mean things about Uncle Barack? Just press "123" on your phone and you can talk to a real grownup! And don't forget to give us your parent's names so we can plan something fun!!

It is sickening and the teachers responsible should be fired. It also happens the other way:

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[shafnutz05]

It is sickening and the teachers responsible should be fired. It also happens the other way:

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Could not agree more...I don't get Youtube at work but was able to google the video description. Why can't we just keep this crap out of schools altogether

[PensFanInDC]

I saw this Youtube....absolutely sickening. To see children being indoctrinated like that is utterly ridiculous. Forget enjoying your childhood kiddos...you need to be recruited into Obama's Youth Citizen Army. Does Mommy and Daddy say mean things about Uncle Barack? Just press "123" on your phone and you can talk to a real grownup! And don't forget to give us your parent's names so we can plan something fun!!

It is sickening and the teachers responsible should be fired. It also happens the other way:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While I agree that is a terrible thing to do...It isn't the same as making his students sing a song of praise to the president.

Now, if he made them learn and sing a song about how Obama is an (expltive) then it would be the same thing.

This guy is just being a racist idiot.

[MWB]

While I agree that is a terrible thing to do...It isn't the same as making his students sing a song of praise to the president.

Now, if he made them learn and sing a song about how Obama is an (expltive) then it would be the same thing.

This guy is just being a racist idiot.

C'mon, really? Being a racist idiot and exposing kids to hatred is at least as bad as having students sing a song to praise someone. Don't you think something like that could have ripple effects in relations among the students after the fact?

[PensFanInDC]

While I agree that is a terrible thing to do...It isn't the same as making his students sing a song of praise to the president.

Now, if he made them learn and sing a song about how Obama is an (expltive) then it would be the same thing.

This guy is just being a racist idiot.

C'mon, really? Being a racist idiot and exposing kids to hatred is at least as bad as having students sing a song to praise someone. Don't you think something like that could have ripple effects in relations among the students after the fact?

Hey now, I never said they are not equally BAD. They just aren't equally indoctrinating.

[Guinness]

They're equally bad. One teaches kids to view people based upon some condition without regard to their individual merit, and the other teaches kids to worship someone they don't even know, but who will most likely end up doing great damage to them.