LGP Political Discussion Thread

[shafnutz05]

Wow.....................ten minutes after I post that, here I read this article:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/se ... _position1

Very, very sneaky Mr. Obama. This is the most transparent attempt at artificially increasing their percentage of the voting bloc I have ever seen. Is there anyone on this board that actually thinks the Democrats want amnesty for the 13 million illegal aliens because they deeply care for their plight? Or how about the fact it will essentially add 13 million voters to the Democratic rolls?

I am convinced the president is pretty much saying: "I am going to force a Democratic/leftist agenda down America's throat, and damn the consequences!!" How he can justify calling for amnesty when he is already skyrocketing the national debt is beyond me. On the bright side, looks like he will "keep" his promise to the American people. We won't give benefits to illegals, we will just legalize them first!

[eddysnake]

So he wants to legalize 13 million illegal aliens. These illegal aliens have been in our country for so long now, I don't think the Govt is going to do anything to get them out or they probably would have by now? (I'm asking) I can see how one side is going to say, he's doing it for votes, and the other is going to say the opposite (It doesn't really matter anymore what anyone does, it always becomes good for one side and bad for the other, it seems that the country is so split right now, that they are blinded to whats actually good for the country as a whole.) I don't have a problem with legalizing them. Beside the "votes" that the pres. will get, what else is wrong with this?

[pittsoccer33]

Another way to dodge the "taxpayers will pay for illegals health insurance." Grant them amnesty and now taxpayers can be on the hook without him "lying."

[shafnutz05]

So he wants to legalize 13 million illegal aliens. These illegal aliens have been in our country for so long now, I don't think the Govt is going to do anything to get them out or they probably would have by now? (I'm asking) I can see how one side is going to say, he's doing it for votes, and the other is going to say the opposite (It doesn't really matter anymore what anyone does, it always becomes good for one side and bad for the other, it seems that the country is so split right now, that they are blinded to whats actually good for the country as a whole.) I don't have a problem with legalizing them. Beside the "votes" that the pres. will get, what else is wrong with this?

Our country is in the midst of a recession. We can't even afford to take care of our own citizens. The national debt is rising at an astronomical rate. Suddenly adding 13 million people to the system is going to literally crush it. I would safely assume that the vast majority of illegals are living at or under the poverty level...as soon as they have legal status, there are going to be lines a mile long for welfare, food stamps, free healthcare, unemployment, etc etc etc. Call me a bigot for saying this, but that's simply the way it is. Not to mention, this sets a VERY dangerous precedent. If foreign citizens watch us reward 13 million illegals with all of the government benefits they could possibly desire, what kind of message does that send? If amnesty becomes real, you watch the floodgates open up. Every illegal alien that hesitated to make the move because of a lack of legitimate status in the USA is going to come flooding across now that the potential for legalization is there. Not only does it severely strain the national coffers, but it's essentially punishing the taxpayers. The slippery slope it will set up could be the most severe consequence of all.

[eddysnake]

Our country is in the midst of a recession. We can't even afford to take care of our own citizens. The national debt is rising at an astronomical rate. Suddenly adding 13 million people to the system is going to literally crush it. I would safely assume that the vast majority of illegals are living at or under the poverty level...as soon as they have legal status, there are going to be lines a mile long for welfare, food stamps, free healthcare, unemployment, etc etc etc. Call me a bigot for saying this, but that's simply the way it is. Not to mention, this sets a VERY dangerous precedent. If foreign citizens watch us reward 13 million illegals with all of the government benefits they could possibly desire, what kind of message does that send? If amnesty becomes real, you watch the floodgates open up. Every illegal alien that hesitated to make the move because of a lack of legitimate status in the USA is going to come flooding across now that the potential for legalization is there. Not only does it severely strain the national coffers, but it's essentially punishing the taxpayers. The slippery slope it will set up could be the most severe consequence of all.

Well, I guess I never thought of it like that, you make good points. It sounds like it's nowhere close to happening and even if it does, I wonder how it would take effect? Would it be a one time deal? Would we be in the same place we are now 10 yrs down the road and have to legalize them all again? I think it's something that was said and it's way to early to get worked up about it, I'm wondering where it goes from here...

[HomerPenguin]

Very, very sneaky Mr. Obama. This is the most transparent attempt at artificially increasing their percentage of the voting bloc I have ever seen. Is there anyone on this board that actually thinks the Democrats want amnesty for the 13 million illegal aliens because they deeply care for their plight? Or how about the fact it will essentially add 13 million voters to the Democratic rolls?

Am I missing something? Where does it say they're all going to be given citizenship and voting rights?

This is a bad idea, but so is not doing anything (which means we can all keep paying extra for illegals to get ER treatment) and so is trying to deport 13 million people. There is no clean solution to the immigration problem at this point.

[HomerPenguin]

I would also like to point out that Wilson was right, that over the next few days the Democrats scrambled to try and add the provisions barring illegals that they'd already shot down when Republicans tried to pass them.

No, he wasn't right, since there is a prohibition on government aid going to illegals across the board. What happened over the next few days was Max Baucus being Max Baucus--scared, spineless, corrupt, and inefficient.

[PensFanInDC]

Very, very sneaky Mr. Obama. This is the most transparent attempt at artificially increasing their percentage of the voting bloc I have ever seen. Is there anyone on this board that actually thinks the Democrats want amnesty for the 13 million illegal aliens because they deeply care for their plight? Or how about the fact it will essentially add 13 million voters to the Democratic rolls?

Am I missing something? Where does it say they're all going to be given citizenship and voting rights?

This is a bad idea, but so is not doing anything (which means we can all keep paying extra for illegals to get ER treatment) and so is trying to deport 13 million people. There is no clean solution to the immigration problem at this point.

Agreed. Not sure what to do about this.

Maybe there is a way to legalize them all with mandatory community service in some way? I know that can sound harsh but I'm not talking about picking up trash on the road (although that could be one of the many ways it could be done).

I think if they are legalized, and I have no real problem with that, that they should have to give back in some way if they are. What those ways can be, I have no idea. It's totally open.

Thoughts?

[shafnutz05]

Hm...good question. Assuming about 10 million of these illegal aliens are 16 and up, maybe have some type of lottery? Every homeowner/lessee in the United States enters a lottery. The newly minted citizens are split up into different groups: cleaners, drivers, chefs, etc based on their skill set. Depending on who you win in the "amnesty lottery", you get to have that person for two years. At the end of the time, you help them find a "real" job. The government can pay the minimum wage during the two year period..thoughts on that??

[PensFanInDC]

Hm...good question. Assuming about 10 million of these illegal aliens are 16 and up, maybe have some type of lottery? Every homeowner/lessee in the United States enters a lottery. The newly minted citizens are split up into different groups: cleaners, drivers, chefs, etc based on their skill set. Depending on who you win in the "amnesty lottery", you get to have that person for two years. At the end of the time, you help them find a "real" job. The government can pay the minimum wage during the two year period..thoughts on that??

Sounds like indentured servitude...

[doublem]

Hm...good question. Assuming about 10 million of these illegal aliens are 16 and up, maybe have some type of lottery? Every homeowner/lessee in the United States enters a lottery. The newly minted citizens are split up into different groups: cleaners, drivers, chefs, etc based on their skill set. Depending on who you win in the "amnesty lottery", you get to have that person for two years. At the end of the time, you help them find a "real" job. The government can pay the minimum wage during the two year period..thoughts on that??

What? lol

[shafnutz05]

Hm...good question. Assuming about 10 million of these illegal aliens are 16 and up, maybe have some type of lottery? Every homeowner/lessee in the United States enters a lottery. The newly minted citizens are split up into different groups: cleaners, drivers, chefs, etc based on their skill set. Depending on who you win in the "amnesty lottery", you get to have that person for two years. At the end of the time, you help them find a "real" job. The government can pay the minimum wage during the two year period..thoughts on that??

Sounds like indentured servitude...

Very good...that's what I was thinking of when I wrote this. I was being satirical when I wrote it, but who knows

[shafnutz05]

Hm...good question. Assuming about 10 million of these illegal aliens are 16 and up, maybe have some type of lottery? Every homeowner/lessee in the United States enters a lottery. The newly minted citizens are split up into different groups: cleaners, drivers, chefs, etc based on their skill set. Depending on who you win in the "amnesty lottery", you get to have that person for two years. At the end of the time, you help them find a "real" job. The government can pay the minimum wage during the two year period..thoughts on that??

What? lol

I was laughing as I wrote this

[PensFanInDC]

I was thinking more along the lines of:

18-35 (or whatever the military cut off age is) have a chance to enter the military (going through the same checks and balances as all Americans do). That gives job training and service. If the military is not an option they can choose the same as the 35-50 group.

35-50 can volunteer at charitable organizations of their choosing (from a govt. appointed list)

50+ are free from service. Let's face it, they lived to at least 50, welcome to your new home.

Under 18 MUST be enrolled in some sort of class to learn english. Like it or not, most people in this country speak it.* They must also be enrolled in public or private schools or pass a GED. They can be immune from the community service (school required service aside).

*side note: I think we should all learn at least some basic conversational spanish. A LOT of people here speak it.)

remember: this is just an idea, I'm not saying this is ABSOLUTELY what we should do.

[PensFanInDC]

Very good...that's what I was thinking of when I wrote this. I was being satirical when I wrote it, but who knows

I figured!

[doublem]

[youtube][/youtube]

Say What? Does he know what he is saying? Bill are you sick?

[shafnutz05]

I don't have Youtube...can you paraphrase in a nonbiased way??

[PensFanInDC]

I don't have Youtube...can you paraphrase in a nonbiased way??

the public option is done

"I want working americans to have an option, that if they dont like thier insurance and cant afford it, if the govt. can cobble together a cheaper ins. policy that gives the same benifits, I see that as a plus for the folks"

[doublem]

O'REILLY: The public option now is done. We discussed this, it's not going to happen. But you say that this little marketplace that they're going to set up, whereby the federal government would subsidize insurance for some Americans, that is, in your opinion, a public option?


OWCHARENKO: Well, it has massive new federal regulation. So you don't necessarily need a public option if the federal government is going to control and regulate the type of health insurance that Americans can buy.

O'REILLY: But you know, I want that, Ms. Owcharenko. I want that. I want, not for personally for me, but for working Americans, to have a option, that if they don't like their health insurance, if it's too expensive, they can't afford it, if the government can cobble together a cheaper insurance policy that gives the same benefits, I see that as a plus for the folks.

[shafnutz05]

Very interesting....very interesting indeed. Bill O'Reilly isn't as right-wing as a lot of people on the Left make him out to be. I have heard him stake out some pretty moderate positions. I am not really sure what he means by "cobbling" together an insurance policy...what does that mean?

Before any kind of healthcare overhaul is made, I would like to see what can happen if we eliminate the idiotic laws forbidding people from shopping for insurance outside their state. Half the reason why it is so expensive is because different companies have a virtual monopoly depending on what state you are in. If you would force those companies to compete, prices would go down.

That is where the president's house of cards falls apart. He keeps insisting that a public option would force companies to compete...the only problem is, his "company" would be setting the rules for the rest of them, and eventually they would be squeezed out. Although I know he would never, ever do this, why doesn't the government repeal that stupid law and allow its citizens to shop for affordable care? The answer is that by doing that, they would be empowering the individual to seek a better option WITHOUT the government involved...can't have that, now can we?

[GaryRissling]

Maybe there is a way to legalize them all with mandatory community service in some way? I know that can sound harsh but I'm not talking about picking up trash on the road (although that could be one of the many ways it could be done).

I think if they are legalized, and I have no real problem with that, that they should have to give back in some way if they are. What those ways can be, I have no idea. It's totally open.

Thoughts?

We should train them to be doctors in order to service the 30-40million that would be newly insured.

[dagny]

In all this, has anyone considered what kind of message "rewarding" these illegals with amnesty (people who violated our laws in coming here and continue to violate them by being here) sends to those immigrants who have spent years and money, waiting to enter this country legally?

Why bother doing it the right way, when you can just break the law and be scooped right in?

How does this act instill any respect to following our laws, once granted amnesty? How does an act like this impact future immigrants to see any point in going through with the legal process for immigration here?

Did granting amnesty, in the past, help prevent future immigration problems? uh.. 13 million, this time, you say? How many next time?

[shafnutz05]

Hey Dagny, exactly what Iam talking about.....the slippery slope. God bless the immigrants who toil and work hard coming to this country...I see them all the time and they are so happy to be here. You are right...what kind of message does that send? "Hey, why would I stay here in Mexico, when I can walk across the Rio Grande, pop out a kid, and be eligible for all of the government entitlement programs I could possibly imagine?"

Mark my words...if amnesty is EVER approved, look out. You will see the largest transfer of population (from Latin America to the United States) in recent history. Our economy will literally collapse under the added strain on our resources.

[shafnutz05]

Did granting amnesty, in the past, help prevent future immigration problems? uh.. 13 million, this time, you say? How many next time?

And to answer this question, here is an article written by Ed Meese (Reagan's attorney general) from a couple years ago. He wrote this while Bush was pushing his own "immigration reform/amnesty" bill. As Reagan was the last person to issue blanket amnesty, Meese explains the bad effects it caused. Yes yes I know that Human Events is a conservative website, but this is straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18399

[PensFanInDC]

In all this, has anyone considered what kind of message "rewarding" these illegals with amnesty (people who violated our laws in coming here and continue to violate them by being here) sends to those immigrants who have spent years and money, waiting to enter this country legally?

Why bother doing it the right way, when you can just break the law and be scooped right in?

How does this act instill any respect to following our laws, once granted amnesty? How does an act like this impact future immigrants to see any point in going through with the legal process for immigration here?

Did granting amnesty, in the past, help prevent future immigration problems? uh.. 13 million, this time, you say? How many next time?

I agree. Amnesty would have to go hand in hand with a tighter border