dagny wrote:Why have they continued to stay in power?
Because, we the people, haven't stood up and done anything to change it. It is our job. Do not expect the people in power, who covet their power, to make the changes.
People complain about who is and has been in power. You know the saying, if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem?
What are people doing to change it? What are you going to do to change it? Or are you going to just continue to complain about it, while doing nothing?
I, for one, am going into Constitutional Law, so that I may try to inject some ethics into the legal system, be educated enough to have the ammunition to argue for change, and to fight from within.
Great. Do you know the amount of work it would take to change this system? If it is even possible? The system is so full of crap it would have to take some type of major earth changing event to get people to think differently. It would take a large scale movement and in this atomized country, I don't think you can get it to last more then two weeks.
First, you think that people in this country want things to change, and have a idea on how to do that. I'm not so sure about that. I'm an idealist at heart, deep down I wish for change, but I'm also a realist, and I know it will never happen here. I don't want to be involved with any system, or any group. I understand why rich people don't care about anything besides profit, but I don't understand why hard working middle class people do? I largely feel abandoned by this country and culture, so for now I will watch it all unfold, and observe.
Do you know how many times I've been told that?
It's too big to change. One person can't do anything. It'll never happen in your lifetime.
I realize the gargantuan task ahead. I realize it probably won't happen in my lifetime. But, if our founding fathers had listened to this stuff, if MLK Jr. had listened, etc. we wouldn't have what these men started.
If I can even start something, that others who believe in the founding principles of this country will carry on, then I have done all I can. But, I would be remiss to sit here and complain, but not try to actively DO something.
doublem wrote:Great. Do you know the amount of work it would take to change this system? If it is even possible? The system is so full of crap it would have to take some type of major earth changing event to get people to think differently. It would take a large scale movement and in this atomized country, I don't think you can get it to last more then two weeks.
First, you think that people in this country want things to change, and have a idea on how to do that. I'm not so sure about that. I'm an idealist at heart, deep down I wish for change, but I'm also a realist, and I know it will never happen here. I don't want to be involved with any system, or any group. I understand why rich people don't care about anything besides profit, but I don't understand why hard working middle class people do? I largely feel abandoned by this country and culture, so for now I will watch it all unfold, and observe.
Edit: I love what this country aspired to be, and still does at points,that is what I want, the ideals it was founded on, it was such a noble experiment. The great revolutionary ideas, and thinkers. The problem now is that is all basically dead, all long term vision is gone, and so are ideas, we have reached a period of stagnancy, and this isn't new, it's been happening for about 80 plus years.
Dude, I'll listen to anything you have to say, but when you say things like this I wonder why you get involved in these discussions at all? If you don't care either A) Move somewhere that you think is better or B) Act like you don't care and just sit back and relax.
I say this because it sounds like you DO care. And that's AWESOME! Speak up! Vote! Write your congressman (or woman)! It's one of the things that we can truly take advantage of here. Don't just toss "grenade" comments out there (I have a feeling that this term is going to make it across the country some day...I love it!).
dagny wrote:Why have they continued to stay in power?
Because, we the people, haven't stood up and done anything to change it. It is our job. Do not expect the people in power, who covet their power, to make the changes.
People complain about who is and has been in power. You know the saying, if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem?
What are people doing to change it? What are you going to do to change it? Or are you going to just continue to complain about it, while doing nothing?
I, for one, am going into Constitutional Law, so that I may try to inject some ethics into the legal system, be educated enough to have the ammunition to argue for change, and to fight from within.
Great. Do you know the amount of work it would take to change this system? If it is even possible? The system is so full of crap it would have to take some type of major earth changing event to get people to think differently. It would take a large scale movement and in this atomized country, I don't think you can get it to last more then two weeks.
First, you think that people in this country want things to change, and have a idea on how to do that. I'm not so sure about that. I'm an idealist at heart, deep down I wish for change, but I'm also a realist, and I know it will never happen here. I don't want to be involved with any system, or any group. I understand why rich people don't care about anything besides profit, but I don't understand why hard working middle class people do? I largely feel abandoned by this country and culture, so for now I will watch it all unfold, and observe.
Do you know how many times I've been told that?
It's too big to change. One person can't do anything. It'll never happen in your lifetime.
I realize the gargantuan task ahead. I realize it probably won't happen in my lifetime. But, if our founding fathers had listened to this stuff, if MLK Jr. had listened, etc. we wouldn't have what these men started.
If I can even start something, that others who believe in the founding principles of this country will carry on, then I have done all I can. But, I would be remiss to sit here and complain, but not try to actively DO something.
The thing is no one can came to an agreement on what this country is or should be. The times are different now, I just don't see the revolutionary spirit to take on something so big.
doublem wrote:Great. Do you know the amount of work it would take to change this system? If it is even possible? The system is so full of crap it would have to take some type of major earth changing event to get people to think differently. It would take a large scale movement and in this atomized country, I don't think you can get it to last more then two weeks.
First, you think that people in this country want things to change, and have a idea on how to do that. I'm not so sure about that. I'm an idealist at heart, deep down I wish for change, but I'm also a realist, and I know it will never happen here. I don't want to be involved with any system, or any group. I understand why rich people don't care about anything besides profit, but I don't understand why hard working middle class people do? I largely feel abandoned by this country and culture, so for now I will watch it all unfold, and observe.
Edit: I love what this country aspired to be, and still does at points,that is what I want, the ideals it was founded on, it was such a noble experiment. The great revolutionary ideas, and thinkers. The problem now is that is all basically dead, all long term vision is gone, and so are ideas, we have reached a period of stagnancy, and this isn't new, it's been happening for about 80 plus years.
Dude, I'll listen to anything you have to say, but when you say things like this I wonder why you get involved in these discussions at all? If you don't care either A) Move somewhere that you think is better or B) Act like you don't care and just sit back and relax.
I say this because it sounds like you DO care. And that's AWESOME! Speak up! Vote! Write your congressman (or woman)! It's one of the things that we can truly take advantage of here. Don't just toss "grenade" comments out there (I have a feeling that this term is going to make it across the country some day...I love it!).
I like talking about ideas and issues. Like I said, I like what this country aspired to be, and at times still does, the ideals that it was founded on. I think I can determine for myself where I can, and where I can't go, thank you. I do vote, and speak up, but as you have seen those things don't really matter. Power, and I mean the real power in this country will do what it wants. And, please don't act like I'm the only one that throws out "grenades". like what I said was something that outrageous.
There is no where better, but that doesn't mean America doesn't have huge problems. I don't see any great countries in the world anymore. I'm getting tired of being told if you don't like it get out, maybe the people that like it so much should do something.
doublem wrote:Great. Do you know the amount of work it would take to change this system? If it is even possible? The system is so full of crap it would have to take some type of major earth changing event to get people to think differently. It would take a large scale movement and in this atomized country, I don't think you can get it to last more then two weeks.
First, you think that people in this country want things to change, and have a idea on how to do that. I'm not so sure about that. I'm an idealist at heart, deep down I wish for change, but I'm also a realist, and I know it will never happen here. I don't want to be involved with any system, or any group. I understand why rich people don't care about anything besides profit, but I don't understand why hard working middle class people do? I largely feel abandoned by this country and culture, so for now I will watch it all unfold, and observe.
Edit: I love what this country aspired to be, and still does at points,that is what I want, the ideals it was founded on, it was such a noble experiment. The great revolutionary ideas, and thinkers. The problem now is that is all basically dead, all long term vision is gone, and so are ideas, we have reached a period of stagnancy, and this isn't new, it's been happening for about 80 plus years.
Dude, I'll listen to anything you have to say, but when you say things like this I wonder why you get involved in these discussions at all? If you don't care either A) Move somewhere that you think is better or B) Act like you don't care and just sit back and relax.
I say this because it sounds like you DO care. And that's AWESOME! Speak up! Vote! Write your congressman (or woman)! It's one of the things that we can truly take advantage of here. Don't just toss "grenade" comments out there (I have a feeling that this term is going to make it across the country some day...I love it!).
I like talking about ideas and issues. Like I said, I like what this country aspired to be, and at times still does, the ideals that it was founded on. I think I can determine for myself where I can, and where I can't go, thank you. I do vote, and speak up, but as you have seen those things don't really matter. Power, and I mean the real power in this country will do what it wants. And, please don't act like I'm the only one that throws out "grenades". like what I said was something that outrageous.
There is no where better, but that doesn't mean America doesn't have huge problems. I don't see any great countries in the world anymore. I'm getting tired of being told if you don't like it get out, maybe the people that like it so much should do something.
okey dokey...I tried.
I'm just saying, if you really dont care, act like it. You do care so stop saying you don't
Tico Rick wrote:No, there's no racism in the health care debate.
Congratulations....you google searched and found a poster that brings up Obama's African heritage in a negative light. I never denied there were crazies on the right. Here's a photo of Michael Steele made up to look like Uncle Tom. What does it prove? Absolutely nothing. You can search anything on google to try and find a photo that proves your point.
shafnutz05 wrote:Congratulations....you google searched and found a poster that brings up Obama's African heritage in a negative light. I never denied there were crazies on the right. Here's a photo of Michael Steele made up to look like Uncle Tom. What does it prove? Absolutely nothing. You can search anything on google to try and find a photo that proves your point.
i know...just when I thought we had moved past it.
Google Image search just doesn't do it for me. If there was a room of 30 people that had never watched US News before or knew anything about the country, I could easily put together a powerpoint presentation for them using Google Images. They would be Republican voters for life. And vice versa, I could make them Democrat voters for life as well
1. “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy,” by Stephen M. Walt, a professor of international affairs at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, and John J. Mearsheimer, a political scientist at the University of Chicago. Published in 2007, the book argues that uncritical American support for Israel, shaped by powerful lobbying organizations like the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, does grave harm to both American and Israeli interests.
2. "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid,” in which former President Jimmy Carter gives his views about how best to end the Arab-Israeli conflict, and criticizes Israeli treatment of Palestinians in the territories.
3. The third book referred to on the tape is called “The Apology of a Hired Killer,” according to the SITE translation...While there seems to be no book of that title and description, at least one analyst has suggested that Mr. bin Laden may have been reading “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man,” by John Perkins.
I heard an interview with John Perkins and he seemed pretty interesting, anyone read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man?
1. “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy,” by Stephen M. Walt, a professor of international affairs at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, and John J. Mearsheimer, a political scientist at the University of Chicago. Published in 2007, the book argues that uncritical American support for Israel, shaped by powerful lobbying organizations like the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, does grave harm to both American and Israeli interests.
2. "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid,” in which former President Jimmy Carter gives his views about how best to end the Arab-Israeli conflict, and criticizes Israeli treatment of Palestinians in the territories.
3. The third book referred to on the tape is called “The Apology of a Hired Killer,” according to the SITE translation...While there seems to be no book of that title and description, at least one analyst has suggested that Mr. bin Laden may have been reading “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man,” by John Perkins.
I heard an interview with John Perkins and he seemed pretty interesting, anyone read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man?
shafnutz05 wrote:Congratulations....you google searched and found a poster that brings up Obama's African heritage in a negative light. I never denied there were crazies on the right. Here's a photo of Michael Steele made up to look like Uncle Tom. What does it prove? Absolutely nothing. You can search anything on google to try and find a photo that proves your point
Actually, you're wrong about my process. I first came across an article about this poster appearing at a lot of Tea Party rallies, and then I googled to find the image. What do these things prove? That there are a lot of latent racists out there who are just smart enough not to use the "n" word, but who nonetheless are, and always will be, anti-Obama simply because of his ethnicity. Political organizers on the right know this, and they're tapping into this racism big time in order to garner support. When this poster appears multiple times at multiple rallies, one cannot just dismiss it as the work of one whacko, or as an anomaly in the political debate. Perhaps you have moved beyond racial issues, but clearly a lot of people who support the Republican Party haven't.
Tico Rick wrote:That there are a lot of latent racists out there who are just smart enough not to use the "n" word, but who nonetheless are, and always will be, anti-Obama simply because of his ethnicity.
There are also people who will always be pro-obama simply because of his ethnicity. It's equally as bad.
Tico Rick wrote:That there are a lot of latent racists out there who are just smart enough not to use the "n" word, but who nonetheless are, and always will be, anti-Obama simply because of his ethnicity.
There are also people who will always be pro-obama simply because of his ethnicity. It's equally as bad.
Meh. I didn't see the pro-Obama people making slurs about John McCain's ethnicity.
Tico Rick wrote:That there are a lot of latent racists out there who are just smart enough not to use the "n" word, but who nonetheless are, and always will be, anti-Obama simply because of his ethnicity.
There are also people who will always be pro-obama simply because of his ethnicity. It's equally as bad.
Really?
I understand that its unfortunate that if the democratic party runs an african-american candidate the african american community will probably vote for that candidate no matter what....but thats not equally as bad as hating obama based on race...
racism runs both ways and all...but i completely disagree with your statement which just sort of shrugs off the overlying racist elements that have existed in this country since its inception.
Tico Rick wrote:That there are a lot of latent racists out there who are just smart enough not to use the "n" word, but who nonetheless are, and always will be, anti-Obama simply because of his ethnicity.
There are also people who will always be pro-obama simply because of his ethnicity. It's equally as bad.
Really?
I understand that its unfortunate that if the democratic party runs an african-american candidate the african american community will probably vote for that candidate no matter what....but thats not equally as bad as hating obama based on race...
racism runs both ways and all...but i completely disagree with your statement which just sort of shrugs off the overlying racist elements that have existed in this country since its inception.
I would add that the people who are pro-Obama simply because of his race are a minority of the total population, while the number of people who are anti-Obama simply because of his race could very well be far greater. It's disingenuous to say that racism runs both ways, while ignoring the implications of this racism in terms of sheer numbers.
I understand that its unfortunate that if the democratic party runs an african-american candidate the african american community will probably vote for that candidate no matter what....but thats not equally as bad as hating obama based on race...
racism runs both ways and all...but i completely disagree with your statement which just sort of shrugs off the overlying racist elements that have existed in this country since its inception.
If you REALLY want to stir the pot....let's talk about the fact that Barack Obama and his family attended a church that preaches hard-edge, black liberation theology for 1 1/2 decades. Everyone always scoffs and laughs when Jeremiah Wright is brought up. But is it not a valid point? You can not attend a church like that for 15-20 years without believing in what the guy is preaching. I don't care what Obama said during the election cycle and how he distanced himself conveniently from Wright. The guy was his self-described mentor for years. So if you really want to talk about racism, why don't we bring our president himself into it?
Oh, and let's not forget about the time that he referred to his white grandmother as a "typical white person". Just imagine if a white president had a black grandfather and referred to him as a "typical black person"? Obama has said and done certain things that certainly make you wonder about how he feels about white people. I am JUST trying to open up this argument to go both ways.
Tico Rick wrote:That there are a lot of latent racists out there who are just smart enough not to use the "n" word, but who nonetheless are, and always will be, anti-Obama simply because of his ethnicity.
There are also people who will always be pro-obama simply because of his ethnicity. It's equally as bad.
Really?
I understand that its unfortunate that if the democratic party runs an african-american candidate the african american community will probably vote for that candidate no matter what....but thats not equally as bad as hating obama based on race...
racism runs both ways and all...but i completely disagree with your statement which just sort of shrugs off the overlying racist elements that have existed in this country since its inception.
I disagree. Voting for or against someone just because of their color is wrong. Basically people didnt vote for McCain because he is white.
Tico Rick wrote:I would add that the people who are pro-Obama simply because of his race are a minority of the total population, while the number of people who are anti-Obama simply because of his race could very well be far greater. It's disingenuous to say that racism runs both ways, while ignoring the implications of this racism in terms of sheer numbers.
And I would WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree with this, and this is an ignorant statement to make. I have a question...how many members of the black population did you see wearing John Kerry shirts in 2004? Or Al Gore shirts in 2000? I work just outside of Philadelphia, and most of the people I work with are black. In the six months leading up to the election, it was a virtual daily worship of the guy. I asked a lot of people why they liked him, and they said "because he represents US". Now what do you think that means? To suggest that a majority of blacks did not vote for Obama because he shared their racial background, while saying that "far greater" whites dislike Obama because he is black, is a preposterous statement.
Oh, and let's not forget about the time that he referred to his white grandmother as a "typical white person". Just imagine if a white president had a black grandfather and referred to him as a "typical black person"? Obama has said and done certain things that certainly make you wonder about how he feels about white people. I am JUST trying to open up this argument to go both ways.
Dude, so what? He is part white and part black. He can say whatever he wants about his grandma. I say things about white people all the time, and I'm white, does that mean I'm racist? Do you really think Obama has something against his mom? It makes zero sense to think that he has something against whitey because he would have to say that about himself.
doublem wrote:Dude, so what? He is part white and part black. He can say whatever he wants about his grandma. I say things about white people all the time, and I'm white, does that mean I'm racist? Do you really think Obama has something against his mom? It makes zero sense to think that he has something against whitey because he would have to say that about himself.
Malcolm X was 1/4 white too...Actually, my great-great-grandfather (really) is black. Should I be allowed to make racist jokes about blacks now because it's in my heritage? And what about the black liberation theology, which is essentially racist in itself? You didn't address that.
I disagree. Voting for or against someone just because of their color is wrong. Basically people didnt vote for McCain because he is white.
how do you know that?
i think we're making some ridiculous assumptions here....lets just be honest and clear about several points.
1. Lots of black people voted for obama because he is black.
2. Lots of white peope probably appalled by the thought of having a black president.
Do you really want to say that these are one in the same? Because this is the distinction i think we're making here....black people feel an empowerment they haven't fely before with a black man becoming president...anti obama racism thinks they're losing this country to people of color
And I would WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree with this, and this is an ignorant statement to make. I have a question...how many members of the black population did you see wearing John Kerry shirts in 2004? Or Al Gore shirts in 2000? I work just outside of Philadelphia, and most of the people I work with are black. In the six months leading up to the election, it was a virtual daily worship of the guy. I asked a lot of people why they liked him, and they said "because he represents US". Now what do you think that means? To suggest that a majority of blacks did not vote for Obama because he shared their racial background, while saying that "far greater" whites dislike Obama because he is black, is a preposterous statement.
i think we're dealing with a sample size issue here.
